My point is that you're overvaluing the 8th overall pick. If you end up with a good 2C from the 8th pick, you're over-drafting your slot. If your expectation is that every top 10 pick be an all star, you're going to be disappointed a lot.

The fact that draftniks may have had him higher is irrelevant. He was picked 8th; not 1st.
- PhillySportsGuy

Ok do you expect more or are you ok with what he has done so far?

Well is he a good #2 center?

When u posted 18 I shouldn't have assumed u turned 18 today. I am truly sorry if I offended you
- rinaldo

No, Dr. GiG is not 18 today.

So like I said..he isnt infallible and does some things well and other things not so well to this point in his career.

You cant just pick the elements of his game that he does well and ignore the rest.

Again..Im not arguing if he is a core player because I believe he is one of the more important players on this team when its competing for a cup ...
- opeth_pa

You can literally say this about any player in any sport.

You're well within your right to complain. It's a free country. I, and many others, are well within our right to think you're an idiot for complaining about a player who actually produces in the areas the Flyers desperately need more help.

Lol.....This puts things in the proper perspective now doesn't it. Hell, Coots is one of the better players on this list. Thanks PSG
- riverfly

Doesn't change the fact that a #8 pick is a high pick and you would expect to get a high quality player with that pick. There is no doubt that more was expected from Couturier in terms of point production when he was drafted.

You can literally say this about any player in any sport.

You're well within your right to complain. It's a free country. I, and many others, are well within our right to think you're an idiot for complaining about a player who actually produces in the areas the Flyers desperately need more help.
- PhillySportsGuy

Ty for being so eloquent

#TeamCoots

You can literally say this about any player in any sport.

You're well within your right to complain. It's a free country. I, and many others, are well within our right to think you're an idiot for complaining about a player who actually produces in the areas the Flyers desperately need more help.
- PhillySportsGuy

AHAH!!! Well played!
Got it, when talking about Coots just pick the stats that tell the vision of him and ignore the other parts...

Again, where have I said anything about him other than the game isnt just played at ES and it would great if he breaks 40 points this season.

You can literally say this about any player in any sport.

You're well within your right to complain. It's a free country. I, and many others, are well within our right to think you're an idiot for complaining about a player who actually produces in the areas the Flyers desperately need more help.
- PhillySportsGuy

I personally think it's well within my right to have the opinion that you're being ignorant to think someone is an idiot for having complaints about a player. I may not agree with every point Opeth makes but he's a reasonable poster who makes fair points.

Ok do you expect more or are you ok with what he has done so far?

Well is he a good #2 center?
- rinaldo

The only reason he doesn't produce 50 points each season is because he doesn't get top PP time. Put him in Schenn's spot on the PP and you'll all get your precious 50 points from him. Is that the best way to utilize him? Probably not, but it seems that's the only way fans will finally appreciate him.

The only reason he doesn't produce 50 points each season is because he doesn't get top PP time. Put him in Schenn's spot on the PP and you'll all get your precious 50 points from him. Is that the best way to utilize him? Probably not, but it seems that's the only way fans will finally appreciate him.
- PhillySportsGuy

He doesn't get top pp because he doesn't warrant it. He is terrible on the pp. he doesn't produce there.

Appreciate him for what ? He is a good nhl player.

He doesn't get top pp because he doesn't warrant it. He is terrible on the pp. he doesn't produce there.

Appreciate him for what ? He is a good nhl player.
- rinaldo

He's never even been given a chance to play with the top PP unit, so how would we know?

Remember until two years ago when he wasn't given a chance to play with top 6 wingers? Then they gave him top 6 wingers and he started producing more points at even strength.

I personally think it's well within my right to have the opinion that you're being ignorant to think someone is an idiot for having complaints about a player. I may not agree with every point Opeth makes but he's a reasonable poster who makes fair points.
- MJL

Thanks MJL!!

About 4 years ago I was pretty much anti-Coots but over that time I have subsequently grown to appreciate him and consider him one of the top 5 most important players on this team currently and if you asked me about him in a year or two when they are possibly pushing for a serious cup run I would say he will be top 3.

He's never even been given a chance to play with the top PP unit, so how would we know?

Remember until two years ago when he wasn't given a chance to play with top 6 wingers? Then they gave him top 6 wingers and he started producing more points at even strength.
- PhillySportsGuy

why do you think he has never been given the chance? could it be the coaches are just holding him back? personal vendetta?

or do you think there are valid reasons why he isn't on the top pp unit?

joel otto would be a freaking God if he played on the flyers today

The only reason he doesn't produce 50 points each season is because he doesn't get top PP time. Put him in Schenn's spot on the PP and you'll all get your precious 50 points from him. Is that the best way to utilize him? Probably not, but it seems that's the only way fans will finally appreciate him.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's true that he doesn't get top PP time but he averaged 1:49 per game on the PP, so he gets significant time there. He put up 2 PP points last season. That is not good! It's combination of the Flyers 2nd unit PP not being very good and that Couturier to this point has not been a good player on the PP. He is often hesitant and indecisive with the puck and just doesn't make a lot of plays on the PP. That's a fair and reasonable criticism.

??
- BiggE

Never = now

why do you think he has never been given the chance? could it be the coaches are just holding him back? personal vendetta?

or do you think there are valid reasons why he isn't on the top pp unit?
- rinaldo

Because the PP was humming along without him and they didn't want to alter something that was working. They also needed to rely heavily on his SH and ES ability, so cutting back PP time was just common sense.

Look, Couturier hasn't been good on the PP, but he hasn't been given a great chance to succeed either. Even if he made an improvement on the PP, it wouldn't help the team that much. His ability to take on heavy even strength minutes and produce is far more important than improving an already good PP.

I guess I just don't get why people complain about him when he's doing great in his role. If he was a top PP producer too, he'd be one of the 10 best forwards in the league. If that's your expectation for him, then you should probably re-evaluate expectations.

It's true that he doesn't get top PP time but he averaged 1:49 per game on the PP, so he gets significant time there. He put up 2 PP points last season. That is not good! It's combination of the Flyers 2nd unit PP not being very good and that Couturier to this point has not been a good player on the PP. He is often hesitant and indecisive with the puck and just doesn't make a lot of plays on the PP. That's a fair and reasonable criticism.
- MJL

The Flyers have lived and died by the PP since forever. So if you're gonna take from it after having a below average team in other areas of the game, there better be a plan in motion to keep the PP tip top.

Because the PP was humming along without him and they didn't want to alter something that was working. They also needed to rely heavily on his SH and ES ability, so cutting back PP time was just common sense.

Look, Couturier hasn't been good on the PP, but he hasn't been given a great chance to succeed either. Even if he made an improvement on the PP, it wouldn't help the team that much. His ability to take on heavy even strength minutes and produce is far more important than improving an already good PP.

I guess I just don't get why people complain about him when he's doing great in his role. If he was a top PP producer too, he'd be one of the 10 best forwards in the league. If that's your expectation for him, then you should probably re-evaluate expectations.
- PhillySportsGuy

bottom line is he hasn't done anything to earn a chance to be on the top pp unit. why is that so hard to except?

wow if he was a pp producer he would be one of the top 10 forwards in the league. everyone has an opinion enjoy your day.

Because the PP was humming along without him and they didn't want to alter something that was working. They also needed to rely heavily on his SH and ES ability, so cutting back PP time was just common sense.

Look, Couturier hasn't been good on the PP, but he hasn't been given a great chance to succeed either. Even if he made an improvement on the PP, it wouldn't help the team that much. His ability to take on heavy even strength minutes and produce is far more important than improving an already good PP.

I guess I just don't get why people complain about him when he's doing great in his role. If he was a top PP producer too, he'd be one of the 10 best forwards in the league. If that's your expectation for him, then you should probably re-evaluate expectations.
- PhillySportsGuy

Couturier's PP time has been increasing in recent years, not decreasing. The conversation has been about Couturier increasing his point production. Improving the Flyers 2nd unit PP which Couturier is most likely to be a part of would most definitely help the team. Maybe he's moved to the first unit, who knows. We'll see.
There is room for improvement in Couturier's game offensively. To pretend like there isn't is choosing to be uninformed.

So today's argument is "Coots is a good player" vs "Coots is a very good player"

Ah, the off-season.

I think, as a few others stated earlier in this discussion, that Coots's numbers have suffered a bit from the Flyers' lack of winger depth in recent years. With a full season of health and a Jake or Simmer or Lindblom (fingers crossed) on his wing, we should see 50-55 points, good for second-line center production.

So today's argument is "Coots is a good player" vs "Coots is a very good player"

Ah, the off-season.

I think, as a few others stated earlier in this discussion, that Coots's numbers have suffered a bit from the Flyers' lack of winger depth in recent years. With a full season of health and a Jake or Simmer or Lindblom (fingers crossed) on his wing, we should see 50-55 points, good for second-line center production.
- ChoclitLeClair

Whatever offensive issues Couturier has, I place on Couturier. In the last couple seasons he's seen quite a bit of Simmonds, Voracek and Schenn. Maybe I'm way off base but every time Coots saw time with Schenn, there was chemistry. However, Coots with Simmonds for example has been hit or miss.

I personally like Coots with Konecny and Voracek. I also liked him with Weise and Schenn.

So today's argument is "Coots is a good player" vs "Coots is a very good player"

Ah, the off-season.

I think, as a few others stated earlier in this discussion, that Coots's numbers have suffered a bit from the Flyers' lack of winger depth in recent years. With a full season of health and a Jake or Simmer or Lindblom (fingers crossed) on his wing, we should see 50-55 points, good for second-line center production.
- ChoclitLeClair

Time to talk about summer clothes and the pros n cons of +/-

So today's argument is "Coots is a good player" vs "Coots is a very good player"

Ah, the off-season.

I think, as a few others stated earlier in this discussion, that Coots's numbers have suffered a bit from the Flyers' lack of winger depth in recent years. With a full season of health and a Jake or Simmer or Lindblom (fingers crossed) on his wing, we should see 50-55 points, good for second-line center production.
- ChoclitLeClair

I will take the bet he doesn't get 50-55 point s

My opinion of Sean Couturier is, I have no expectation for him offensively. By drafting Nolan Patrick, I think there is a little relief there. I think Giroux has to bring more. I think Couturier should be allowed to do what he's done so far and everything else is gravy. I think Couturier should wear the "A" Bellemare left behind an Da take a step as a leader on this team.

My opinion of Sean Couturier is, I have no expectation for him offensively. By drafting Nolan Patrick, I think there is a little relief there. I think Giroux has to bring more. I think Couturier should be allowed to do what he's done so far and everything else is gravy. I think Couturier should wear the "A" Bellemare left behind an Da take a step as a leader on this team.
- SuperSchennBros

Yup.

Coots is never going to be "the guy". He doesn't have the offensive mojo to be centering a top line. However, his possession numbers and 2nd tier offense, on top of his defensive prowess, show me he tops out as a 2nd liner that every postseason team would envy. The guy is a player.

With Patrick in the mix, it takes the offensive pressure off him a little more, while creating match up problems for the other team playing against our 2nd and 3rd lines (well...and first too). This is the kind of impact Patrick will have and imo the most important one unless he puts up 55+ pts. Then it'll be the second most important

Point is the addition of Patrick gives us 3 competent lines, and I think we'll all see how much of a boon that will be to the offense of the team. We all have seen how (frank)ing frustrating it is to see Giroux's line shut down because the other team doesn't have to really worry about Coots surrounded by two 3rd/borderline 4th line wingers playing on the 2nd line. Enter Patrick, Lindblom, and add some puck movers to the back end and suddenly you're looking at a playoff team.