Let's hope Ruuta does not become a right handed Danny Richmond in that 44.
- Omahawk

What a punching bag that guy was. Along with Colin fraser and adam burish we've had our share of guys who could take a beating with the best of them.

What a punching bag that guy was. Along with Colin fraser and adam burish we've had our share of guys who could take a beating with the best of them.
- vandymeer23

Hawks have a history with guys who have a history of fighting who really can't do it well. Magnuson was a legend for taking poop kicking. Peluso any time he fought someone tough. I hear Bouma good at taking a beating too.
Still wish the Hawks would add a couple of guys who can drop the gloves and are good at it.
When Pitt adds Reaves you know there is a need for it.
Where are you E Kane, Deslaurie, Prout

I don't disagree but when DeBrincat is ready his skating will have had to improve or he won't be an effective NHL scorer.

Have you ever seen anyone close to his size dominate as a goal scorer and not be able to skate well?

Only one I can recall was Dino Ciccarelli but he was as tough as a cheap steak and could get tons of goals under the nose of larger dmen.
- Al

Al I never heard that before. That is a great line.

Agree, JJ. But I see the similarities in that Atkinson is smallish, plays with IQ in finding seams and has a +shot.
- Mr Ricochet

Similar style, that's what I was saying.

I don't disagree but when DeBrincat is ready his skating will have had to improve or he won't be an effective NHL scorer.

Have you ever seen anyone close to his size dominate as a goal scorer and not be able to skate well?

Only one I can recall was Dino Ciccarelli but he was as tough as a cheap steak and could get tons of goals under the nose of larger dmen.
- Al

And Dino and Luc Robitaille played in an era when a lack of speed was permissible. Real hard to be an elite offensive player in today's NHL with sub-standard skating.

Listen, I don't want to consign ADB to the ash heap of history by any means. That would be, ehhhh, "premature." As in, way premature.

Intuitively, when you see a guy his size (as Al points out) you want him to make up for that with speed.

There are different opinions, but mine is that hockey is not just a half court game or shootout, where the 135 feet outside the offensive zone don't matter. To be effective in the offensive zone, you have to be able to get there—preferably—definitely—at a rate of speed that puts defenders on their heels, forces bad decisions, and panic. Especially as a winger.

To find open ice, you have to also be effective (at times and in ways) in high traffic areas.

So just like 1 ion 1 drills don't tell the whole story of a player, neither do 3 on 3 o-zone drills.

The notion that results in junior against 17-18 year old kids, the vast majority of whom will never play pro due to a lack of native talent, translate to NHL success is asinine.

My buddy who was GM at Plymouth was also an agent for James Wisniewski, Craig Anderson and Dustin Byfuglien. We were talking about Wiz when he was playing at Norfolk (and getting a lot of notice and hype, honestly, in high minor PRO) and my buddy said he had some doubts about how good he would be in the NHL. And this was his AGENT. I asked why (bear in mind, this guy had played himself in the O and in the old IHL as a pro). He said, because he gets away with things in the AHL and when he was in junior that he "lacks the foot speed to do in the NHL."

Ultimately, Wiz was OK, and that was like 2005, but . . .

And while we can all debate this til the cows come home, ultimately, we really only have in the case of DeBrincat his results on a great OHL team, playing against the level of competition described earlier.

The proof will be when he plays with and against pros. I did see him briefly last year in one or two pro exhibitions and I thought he was completely ineffective. Tiny sample size, completely wrong and unfair to form a lasting judgment on that.

Now it's a year later. More experience and maturity for him. Definitely another big year in junior under his belt. We'll have to see.

Hawks have a history with guys who have a history of fighting who really can't do it well. Magnuson was a legend for taking poop kicking. Peluso any time he fought someone tough. I hear Bouma good at taking a beating too.
Still wish the Hawks would add a couple of guys who can drop the gloves and are good at it.
When Pitt adds Reaves you know there is a need for it.
Where are you E Kane, Deslaurie, Prout
- HamiltonHawk

They had one guy who could play and fight, albeit on the back end of his career. But he had a few good years in Chicago.

#24.

Boy I am starting to sound like the kid's agent:

When people say DeBrincat is not fast, they mean he is a short spurt after the quick cut attacker, and a guy who uses the skate edges really well to re-position, lunge in on the forecheck, turn and jump into the open areas, etc.
He is not gonna take the puck from his own blue line and long stride in a straight line blowing by a surprised opposition, eg. he is not gonna "Victkor Arvidsson you."

He's not gonna be circling already with the head up steam to freight train in or out.

He's gonna be close to attackers trying to take pucks, quickly dish, and find separation when his head says it mught come back to him...

They had one guy who could play and fight, albeit on the back end of his career. But he had a few good years in Chicago.

#24.
- John Jaeckel

While not their primary purpose, Steve Thomas and Jocelyn Lemuiex could throw 'em.

They had one guy who could play and fight, albeit on the back end of his career. But he had a few good years in Chicago.

#24.
- John Jaeckel

1more John, he wore number 20 and also scored 50 goals in a season! And I don't mean Mike Hudson .
On to another subject, Fortin looks like he put the required work in, DeBrincat will have to once hesees where he is at. And Little Nicky? Sounds like he could give 2craps if he comes to camp looking like A 13 year old bantam player. Said it before, BUST, unload that kid while you have the chance. He won't get a pass this year from Dineen and Ulfie when it comes to grinding it out.

They had one guy who could play and fight, albeit on the back end of his career. But he had a few good years in Chicago.

#24.
- John Jaeckel

Legend

Brander's team also found that forwards:

Improve more quickly than they decline and typically begin "a significant decline in their early 30s."
Perform within 90 per cent of their peak from 24 to 32 years old.
25 is their most common age, with 24-27 very similar.

Defencemen, the co-authors report:

Improve and decline more slowly than forwards and do so very symmetrically.
Perform within 90 per cent of their peak from 24 to 34 years old (two years longer than forwards).
26 is their Peak age with 25 and 27 very similar.

Would not most agree Hawks are a Keith injury away (or maybe Crawford) from it getting dicey making the playoffs??
- VopatsRash

I have to concede that a keith ior Crawford injury puts the Hawks in a real bind.

That said, your "statistical" Epidemiologial assessment of keith's health or chances for productivity are way too broad.

Again, I will concede, knowing Keith was slowed by a knee injury and surgery (not an ACL or reconstruction BTW) over the last couple of seasons that if he doesn't ever fully recover, he will never be the Keith of old again.

All that said, if he is fully recovered this season, which odds are he should be, then there is no reason he can't be the Duncan Keith we all remember.

Why? Because he is an off the charts freakish athlete—genetically—and this is proven. Because in spite of big minutes and "hard miles," he's been incredibly durable over the course of his career. He's not a big guy like Seabrook.

And there have been numerous defensemen of his size and style who have been highly effective into their late 30's. And none were quite the native athlete he is.

They had one guy who could play and fight, albeit on the back end of his career. But he had a few good years in Chicago.

#24.
- John Jaeckel

The funniest was when Enrrico Ciccone would sit on the bench until they thought it was "appropriate" for him to hit the hit, and find an unwilling victim.

I think that the Probert Chicago years was when I realized it had changed; the fact that Ty Domi and Probie (always a red wing in my mind after rag-dolling Charlie Manson after prison release) were going out to eat dinner together after fighting soured the taste of the spectacle.

I guess the increase in UFA status and the rent a goon ala Ryan Reeves era is what took away the aspect....

It's tough to take Sydny Crosby having to swing lumber at P K Subban because of the way evolution has "evolved.

Boy I am starting to sound like the kid's agent:

When people say DeBrincat is not fast, they mean he is a short spurt after the quick cut attacker, and a guy who uses the skate edges really well to re-position, lunge in on the forecheck, turn and jump into the open areas, etc.
He is not gonna take the puck from his own blue line and long stride in a straight line blowing by a surprised opposition, eg. he is not gonna "Victkor Arvidsson you."

He's not gonna be circling already with the head up steam to freight train in or out.

He's gonna be close to attackers trying to take pucks, quickly dish, and find separation when his head says it mught come back to him...
- wiz1901

No that doesn't seem like an agent's argument. I think it's a really good, fair assessment of hs strengths (and areas where he's not going to be as good).

I haven't seen him nearly as much as you have Wiz. But just going by what I have seen and heard and going by what I know of the game, I think he can potentially be really effective as you describe—sort of an opportunistic pest and a guy who can be productive—with the right linemates.

I also think he is going to have to adjust his game to the pros, where he will have to be smarter and play within himself because he WILL NOT be superman in the pros as he was in the O. put another way, pro speed and defenders are going to take things away from him which were relatively easy in junior. He will need to adjust and find his "productivity" in the pros.

So. . .the new design does not appear to be very popular. McD not going to like his jerseys dropping out of the top 5.

The funniest was when Enrrico Ciccone would sit on the bench until they thought it was "appropriate" for him to hit the hit, and find an unwilling victim.

I think that the Probert Chicago years was when I realized it had changed; the fact that Ty Domi and Probie (always a red wing in my mind after rag-dolling Charlie Manson after prison release) were going out to eat dinner together after fighting soured the taste of the spectacle.

I guess the increase in UFA status and the rent a goon ala Ryan Reeves era is what took away the aspect....

It's tough to take Sydny Crosby having to swing lumber at P K Subban because of the way evolution has "evolved.
- wiz1901

Probert's epic years were in the Winged Wheel for sure. He had some moments for a few years in Chicago. Always fun to watch until the end when he just couldn't keep up up and down the ice anymore.

Pretty good hockey player with some instincts and decent hands as a forward, incredibly strong on his skates, and man could he scrap, LOL

So. . .the new design does not appear to be very popular. McD not going to like his jerseys dropping out of the top 5.


- pdx2ord

What's up with the white collar anyway. I wouldn't buy that jersey. I'd rather get an older more traditional version.

Probert's epic years were in the Winged Wheel for sure. He had some moments for a few years in Chicago. Always fun to watch until the end when he just couldn't keep up up and down the ice anymore.

Pretty good hockey player with some instincts and decent hands as a forward, incredibly strong on his skates, and man could he scrap, LOL
- John Jaeckel

Indeed! Scored 80 points with 300 PimS one year. The key with Probert is the longer you hung in with him the less likely you would "win" the fight. Sad how his career and life tumbled. Instead of being a good hockey player, which he was, he became the circus freak in the NHL meathead mentality of human cock fighting. Probert's career is why I enjoyed, yet also detested, the aspect of fighting in hockey.

They had one guy who could play and fight, albeit on the back end of his career. But he had a few good years in Chicago.

#24.
- John Jaeckel

Let's not forget big AL Secord!!!

Tootoo can hold his own. More so than any tough on this team in recent years. For a little guy too.

Tootoo can hold his own. More so than any tough on this team in recent years. For a little guy too.
- kinigitt

Tommy Wingels may wind up centering for Tootoo and Bouma on certain nights, that will be interesting. Will make some guys keep their heads up out there.

Exactly. Gretzky's brilliance was how thought the game. At times it looked like the other team wasn't really even concerned with him, which we know wasn't true. But because he was 100x smarter than everyone else on the ice it looked like Gretz was playing his own game out there. I've seen no one since who could think the game like him and I doubt Alex Debrincat thinks it like him either, but that IS a strength of Alex and it will manifest itself when we toss the cones behind the wall and drop the pucks.
- kwolf68

The game was also 80000x slower

Tommy Wingels may wind up centering for Tootoo and Bouma on certain nights, that will be interesting. Will make some guys keep their heads up out there.
- wonthecup10

There is no doubt having the opposing team having to have their heads on swivels is a plus after having watched the liberties taken against the 'Hawks this year.
A great PK that frequently scores short handed goals also allows for players to retaliate here and there without worrying about losing the game for retaliating.

I don't disagree but when DeBrincat is ready his skating will have had to improve or he won't be an effective NHL scorer.

Have you ever seen anyone close to his size dominate as a goal scorer and not be able to skate well?

Only one I can recall was Dino Ciccarelli but he was as tough as a cheap steak and could get tons of goals under the nose of larger dmen.
- Al

No, but I'm not the best to ask to compare players from different eras. And I'd add he doesn't have to dominate to help. One can optimistically see him have the IQ to get to spots, the release to get shots off and the scorers gift to pot a few. .....

There is a reason DeBrincat fell in the draft when he didn't have an injury or an off year like Saad did. But at the same time the Hawks did think he had something and used a 2nd rounder on him so I'm open to letting his development play out.

We all like skating and size, two things he's short of right now, but it's not a deal breaker. Plenty of players can play fast that don't skate that well. Plenty of guys who use a smallish stout frame to their advantage. If this kid makes it it will be in large part due to his IQ, and we know the Hawks organIzation covets that.

Mentioned this a few threads back that the thing I like best so far about the kid is he gets drafted, comes to camp, doesn't make the cut, sent back to jrs and instead of sulking or coasting he has his very best statistical yr scoring 65 goals and a +60 in the top jr league on earth. That's good, and IMO is a good look into his character.

Tootoo can hold his own. More so than any tough on this team in recent years. For a little guy too.
- kinigitt

Disagree. Bollig ragdolled Tootoo and only lost 1 fight as a Hawk (to McGrattan).

Everyone talking about fighting, and more importantly talking about the importance of winning a hockey fight...I'd say that you haven't been on a team or in a locker room where fighting happens. The players don't care about who wins the fight. It is all about who/how/why/etc that player answers the bell and the reasons behind it. Let Tootoo go up against the biggest guy out there, let him get ragdolled, but if he goes up against that guy for taking liberties, stepping out of line, etc then that is all the team and players will care about and will rally behind.