A lot of truth here. I was stunned we won the cup with out Letang.
- madmike71

Didn't notice that post until you quoted it. Fantastic post and 100% accurate. Winning back to back Cups has bred a lot of complacency on here and lots of bad takes have been flying this offseason. A guy who just started watching hockey this year could probably tell you the team we iced these playoffs was problematic. I don't want to go into next year's playoffs the same way, 2017 Cup or no. Remember that once Bylsma and Shero were above criticism a couple of years ago.

Didn't notice that post until you quoted it. Fantastic post and 100% accurate. Winning back to back Cups has bred a lot of complacency on here and lots of bad takes have been flying this offseason. A guy who just started watching hockey this year could probably tell you the team we iced these playoffs was problematic. I don't want to go into next year's playoffs the same way, 2017 Cup or no. Remember that once Bylsma and Shero were above criticism a couple of years ago.
- Victoro311

Having two superstar centers will cover up a lot of ugly. There was a lot of ugly on a nightly basis from our D during that run.....I don't know how anybody can deny or forget that.

Obviously have to mention the incredible tending too.

isn't availability an import ability? I don't care how talented you are, if you can't stay on the ice. I have no doubt Letang is the better player. I just hate that he always misses big parts of the season. Only 1 season over 70 games played int he last six years. I think you have to factor in health when talking about a player. Do you think when its all said and done, that Schultz will be in the ball park of Letang in career points?
- Thorny

No availability isn't a hockey based skill. I don't care if Schultz has the same or more career points as Letang when they both retire, that doesn't make Schultz as good or better of a hockey player. More dependable yes, but better no. Schultz isn't a #1D, Letang is and an elite one at that. Schultz can't carry the burden of being the offensive linchpen of the team that plays ~28 minutes a night. Letang can.

We do need Letang endurance. I was arguing hard for it this offseason and not many people agreed with me. But acknowledged Letang's health needs to be hedged against doesn't mean you should take it a step further and say Justin Schultz is better than Letang. If he was, he'd be acceptable Letang endurance, which he is not.

He'd be a solid bottom pairing RD for Cole. The general footspeed of that pairing might be its downfall, but it could work. And as a bottom pairing it's hideable.
- Victoro311

Probably a little better with Hunwick then. If we trade a defenseman I'd assume Cole ends up with Schultz on the second pair.

Probably a little better with Hunwick then. If we trade a defenseman I'd assume Cole ends up with Schultz on the second pair.
- Tojo.

Yeah that's definitely be the play, I just hope that's not what happens. Cole is a good 5 guy who can slot up but being the regular 2LD is out of his depth. I've said it a million times: trading Oli Maatta isn't addition by substraction and we're not in a position to make our defense weaker than it already is.

Not just picking on this responce because there are a couple close to it but from following hockey and hearing 2 high ups talk pretty much everyone beside like 3-5 players in the league are available. Im pretty sure we all know Kadri isnt 1 of the 3-5. Nobody including the top "insiders" thought Panarin, Saad, and to a lesser extent Hjallmarrson were "available" but they got traded. There is a lot more players then those 3 but thats just the last month.

Back to my point, would trading for Kadri take an "overpayment"? Id definitely say yes. Is overpaying always a bad thing for a team. Not really. Pens are going for a third straight championship in a row. To get Kadri Im just throwing out a random scenario but Im sure Sheary+Maatta+1st gets them definitely thinking. Id say thats an overpayment from the pens. (They have Mathews, Nylander, Marner, Bozak, Marleau, Komarov, Fehr, Moore that all have played center). Im not saying its probable but its definitely possible on the leafs end.

Now were does that leave the Penguins...
Guentzel Crosby Hornqvist
Hagelin Malkin Kessel
Wilson Kadri Rust
Sprong Rowney Reaves Aston-Reese/Kuhnhackl spares (lines obviously can be changed) Want more depth... Jagr/Vanek free agents with the 3 mill saved in trade.

Dumolin Letang
Cole Schultz
Hunwick Franson (Yes Franson would fit in cap if he made under 4 per)
Pouliot Ruhwedel

Not only does this save there cheap prospects it solves the third line center problem for 5 years and also gets 1 of the best 3rd line centers in hockey that can easily jump to the second line in case of injury. Also that defence is better than the 1 that just won the cup.
- pens4life-66

Further to this point, Duchene isnt going to come cheap thats for sure. We have all heard the Pens at some point have been in on him. So they are definitely offering something significant. Id say to get Kadri it will take about the same as Duchene give or take a little you decide. In my opinion Kadri is the better option over Duchene for the Penguins especially having him already signed relatively cheap (4.5M) for 5 years. Kadri also lacks any sort of no trade clause so thats not a problem.

Im not saying Im GM JR but I dont think any of this is to far off if the pens went this route. Thanks for the reply "youmeanddupuis9" Would love to hear more now that I think Ive clarified the options.

Not just picking on this responce because there are a couple close to it but from following hockey and hearing 2 high ups talk pretty much everyone beside like 3-5 players in the league are available. Im pretty sure we all know Kadri isnt 1 of the 3-5. Nobody including the top "insiders" thought Panarin, Saad, and to a lesser extent Hjallmarrson were "available" but they got traded. There is a lot more players then those 3 but thats just the last month.

Back to my point, would trading for Kadri take an "overpayment"? Id definitely say yes. Is overpaying always a bad thing for a team. Not really. Pens are going for a third straight championship in a row. To get Kadri Im just throwing out a random scenario but Im sure Sheary+Maatta+1st gets them definitely thinking. Id say thats an overpayment from the pens. (They have Mathews, Nylander, Marner, Bozak, Marleau, Komarov, Fehr, Moore that all have played center). Im not saying its probable but its definitely possible on the leafs end.

Now were does that leave the Penguins...
Guentzel Crosby Hornqvist
Hagelin Malkin Kessel
Wilson Kadri Rust
Sprong Rowney Reaves Aston-Reese/Kuhnhackl spares (lines obviously can be changed) Want more depth... Jagr/Vanek free agents with the 3 mill saved in trade.

Dumolin Letang
Cole Schultz
Hunwick Franson (Yes Franson would fit in cap if he made under 4 per)
Pouliot Ruhwedel

Not only does this save there cheap prospects it solves the third line center problem for 5 years and also gets 1 of the best 3rd line centers in hockey that can easily jump to the second line in case of injury. Also that defence is better than the 1 that just won the cup.
- pens4life-66

The problem with your argument is the players you're willing to part with are not the players they're going to want....

Hornie - one year til UFA with a lot of hard miles. Sheary - hasn't really proven he can score consistently without playing next to the best player in the world. Hags - expensive fast guy that barely scored last year. Maatta - slow, 4/5 defender who's injury prone. Jarry - unproven in the NHL. Our 2018 1st will be more like a 2nd.

I see no way TO moves Kadri.....and if they do you're going to need to start with Guentzal.

No availability isn't a hockey based skill. I don't care if Schultz has the same or more career points as Letang when they both retire, that doesn't make Schultz as good or better of a hockey player. More dependable yes, but better no. Schultz isn't a #1D, Letang is and an elite one at that. Schultz can't carry the burden of being the offensive linchpen of the team that plays ~28 minutes a night. Letang can.

We do need Letang endurance. I was arguing hard for it this offseason and not many people agreed with me. But acknowledged Letang's health needs to be hedged against doesn't mean you should take it a step further and say Justin Schultz is better than Letang. If he was, he'd be acceptable Letang endurance, which he is not.
- Victoro311

I clearly stated that Letang was the better player, but if you can't stay on the ice, I don't care how good you are. Letang no doubt has the better talent, but you can't be the better player when you are spending large chunks of the season in the press box. The Pens just won the cup without him, some will say the Pens survived. I just think that you have to take everything in when talking about Letang. The Pens paid him 7.2 mil to play 41 out of the 103 games the Pens played. That has to factor in. I just think at some point, durability has to be factored in, especially when it becomes a yearly thing.

JMatchett383 - if you're looking for somewhere to stay that's on the trolley line, look at different motels and hotels in dormont. The motel 6 is at the bottom of the hill on banksville ave and all you have to do is walk up potomac (which is a pretty big hill) and you'll end up at the t station that takes directly into the north shore.

I took the t everywhere in Pittsburgh for a long time and know almost all of its stops.

JMatchett383 - if you're looking for somewhere to stay that's on the trolley line, look at different motels and hotels in dormont. The motel 6 is at the bottom of the hill on banksville ave and all you have to do is walk up potomac (which is a pretty big hill) and you'll end up at the t station that takes directly into the north shore.

I took the t everywhere in Pittsburgh for a long time and know almost all of its stops.
- rbaurle51

Potomac is quite steep haha

Potomac is quite steep haha
- 668710

A few years ago, my tranny blew out halfway up the hill and I had to throw it in neutral and coast backwards through the intersection into bp lol

The problem with your argument is the players you're willing to part with are not the players they're going to want....

Hornie - one year til UFA with a lot of hard miles. Sheary - hasn't really proven he can score consistently without playing next to the best player in the world. Hags - expensive fast guy that barely scored last year. Maatta - slow, 4/5 defender who's injury prone. Jarry - unproven in the NHL. Our 2018 1st will be more like a 2nd.

I see no way TO moves Kadri.....and if they do you're going to need to start with Guentzal.
- madmike71

Sullivan loves Hags and Horny, neither is going anywhere.

I clearly stated that Letang was the better player, but if you can't stay on the ice, I don't care how good you are. Letang no doubt has the better talent, but you can't be the better player when you are spending large chunks of the season in the press box. The Pens just won the cup without him, some will say the Pens survived. I just think that you have to take everything in when talking about Letang. The Pens paid him 7.2 mil to play 41 out of the 103 games the Pens played. That has to factor in. I just think at some point, durability has to be factored in, especially when it becomes a yearly thing.
- Thorny

I don't know man. It's too easy to draw comparisons between Letang and, say, Craig Adams who was the ultimate iron man. Of course, its important to play most games but I didnt hold it against Crosby or regret his contract when he had a year long concussion.

No availability isn't a hockey based skill. I don't care if Schultz has the same or more career points as Letang when they both retire, that doesn't make Schultz as good or better of a hockey player. More dependable yes, but better no. Schultz isn't a #1D, Letang is and an elite one at that. Schultz can't carry the burden of being the offensive linchpen of the team that plays ~28 minutes a night. Letang can.

We do need Letang endurance. I was arguing hard for it this offseason and not many people agreed with me. But acknowledged Letang's health needs to be hedged against doesn't mean you should take it a step further and say Justin Schultz is better than Letang. If he was, he'd be acceptable Letang endurance, which he is not.
- Victoro311

If you by the definition that a 1d is a top 30 defenseman then Schultz might actually be one. But I consider a 1d as a guy who anchors the top pairing on a normal contending team which is a guy whose yearly in the Norris conversation.

Guentzel isn't tradable. His performance at the NHL level is elite in a modest sample size. Because of his draft pedigree he's simply not going to bring back a similar guy. My guess is he's at the level of a saad or panarin....the number two guy to a star but his contract is way better. I'm not going to say guentzel is worth this but so far performance is 29 goals in 65 NHL games with another 21 in a very brief 33 ahl stretch. That performance makes him a center piece for any elite young forward. We won't get that value now.

Figures a guy with Barnaby as his username would have an opinion like this.
- Feds91Stammer

Listen buddy your best d-man is DeKeyser so F off

sorry

I don't think any of those players are/will be available. Ruth will come up with something, but I'm guessing it will be another Bones type player. I'm glad he's taking a "wait and see" approach, but I think he needs to solve it before the season starts.
- madmike71

We need names...

How'd you like that Ghost > Wombat tonight? Great show.

I think Vegas is the obvious trade partner since they have so many extra players and a ton of centers. They would also be willing to take back picks/prospects instead of roster players as they have too many roster players and they are building for the future anyway. This means we don't have to agonize over losing Sheary, Maatta, Horny, or whoever. Many of their centers would also fit under the cap even after giving new contracts to Dumo and Sheary.

Minnesota might also be ripe for the picking as their GM appears to have no idea what he's doing, but I can't figure out a trade, especially since Granlund moved to wing. But then, they just traded two good players for two crap players, so maybe they're willing to trade another good player for something lesser in return.

I'm sure Edmonton would like to move RNH and his overpriced contract since Draisaitl and Nurse will get paid this year and next respectively. Chiarelli is another GM who seems to lose trades on a regular basis.

I would say Little is a target since he is a pending UFA, but Winnipeg wasn't far out of the playoffs last year so he is probably a TDL player if they are not looking good then but not sooner.

A lot of truth here. I was stunned we won the cup with out Letang.
- madmike71

This may mean he is not as important as we think. With a neck surgery he will be even more fragile. I doubt he can last more than two years.

This may mean he is not as important as we think. With a neck surgery he will be even more fragile. I doubt he can last more than two years.
- powerhouse

Health is a skill. While Letang possesses a ton of skills, Health is not one of them.

Schultz isn't even close to Letang. That's a ludicrous take.
- Victoro311

Yeah its two different levels no doubts. Letang is an all world D-man when healthy. If he could stay healthy he'd be get Norris noms pretty much every year IMO.

Health is a skill. While Letang possesses a ton of skills, Health is not one of them.
- mont23

That's a new one to me...never heard that before and I can't say I agree.

Listen buddy your best d-man is DeKeyser so F off

sorry
- Barnaby36

Mike Green.

Health is a skill. While Letang possesses a ton of skills, Health is not one of them.
- mont23

Health is not a skill lol injuries are random.

Health is not a skill lol injuries are random.
- j.boyd919

Analytics, at least in baseball, says otherwise.