I think the days of the goons who do nothing but fight is gone Upstate for sure.
However grit is different in my opinion then fighting. What TH did in the POs against Malkin is gritty. Playing with an edge but the key word is playing, you need to be playing today to contribute and not sitting on the bench and only go out to drop gloves with the other team goon. I think you need some grit on your team to be successful. It's one of the elements of many a group needs to win imho.
- nyisles7

I understand grit but his examples were of all the guys that can or could fight. I think he was missing the point

Doesn't help when Crappy didn't know potential even if it hit him in the face.
- bgainesDM

https://www.google.com/se...560#imgrc=XVCNwMQU2wTOgM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=capuano+hit+in+face&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBv9Lct5XVAhVD1oMKHVevBkcQ_AUICygD&biw=360&bih=560#imgrc=XVCNwMQU2wTOgM:
- brodydog29

- JohnScammo

Yabba Dabba Don't. I can't wait to see Florida flounder this year with Zippy "helping" behind the bench.
"Hey Bahkoff, I'm going to need ya to sit this game out since MacKenzie screwed up last game. That'll teach him a lesson. Jahger, I need to dahble shift ya. Ekblad, I know yahr a good playah, but hows about ya leahn maw about the game from the pressah. I just trust Yandle maw right now."

I'm a little tired of this idea JT is still not happy with the talent on this team. Maybe when L&M bought the team, he should have let them know it was a good idea to get a new GM and coach in. I rather JT be honest with the owners instead of sulking in silence.
- ses111

I'm getting tired of all the JT talk. I'm over it. The Isles are what they are. Snow is the GM. Weight is the coach. The ownership is who it is. They are in limbo on the arena front, but by all accounts are doing everything they can to get a new arena of their own at Belmont.

JT is well aware of what this organization is and what the talent level is organization-wide. If he wants to leave, then fine. Let him go. Trade him somewhere and get some pieces back. I'm not interested in having to beg someone to stay. If he wants to stay, fantastic. Then sign an extension before training camp and put an end to this crap. Get the talks going already. And that goes double for the Team. It sounds like nobody is approaching the other side about starting talks. Or maybe we're just in the dark about the progress of discussions.

I agree with you that I don't understand this misnomer that has developed that the Isles are a talent-less mess steaming into an abyss of irrelevance. There are good players on this team. There are good prospects in the system. This team is not garbage. Its a few pieces away from being a true contender. I can understand JT's hesitation if its arena-related, not knowing where he'd be playing long-term if he signs an extension. But if his concern is over the roster and talent in the organization, then I call bull**it on that.

I'm getting tired of all the JT talk. I'm over it. The Isles are what they are. Snow is the GM. Weight is the coach. The ownership is who it is. They are in limbo on the arena front, but by all accounts are doing everything they can to get a new arena of their own at Belmont.

JT is well aware of what this organization is and what the talent level is organization-wide. If he wants to leave, then fine. Let him go. Trade him somewhere and get some pieces back. I'm not interested in having to beg someone to stay. If he wants to stay, fantastic. Then sign an extension before training camp and put an end to this crap. Get the talks going already. And that goes double for the Team. It sounds like nobody is approaching the other side about starting talks. Or maybe we're just in the dark about the progress of discussions.

I agree with you that I don't understand this misnomer that has developed that the Isles are a talent-less mess steaming into an abyss of irrelevance. There are good players on this team. There are good prospects in the system. This team is not garbage. Its a few pieces away from being a true contender. I can understand JT's hesitation if its arena-related, not knowing where he'd be playing long-term if he signs an extension. But if his concern is over the roster and talent in the organization, then I call bull**it on that.
- Jethro09

Kind of my feelings on it. Get the show on the road if he's waiting for some kind of divine intervention to help him with his decision let's start exploring trading him. To me it's stupid going into camp with him unsigned for multiple reasons.

Article is terribly written and contradicts itself a few times.

Don't trade Barzal because of the future. Trading him for Duchene could keep Tavares here. Doesnt that qualify as being the future? Having Duchene makes us instant contenders and gives us good press, etc. Isn't that a pretty big deal with other players, ticket sales, coaches, etc? There is an argument for trading a player who MAY one day be as good as the player we trade him for. I'm all for keeping Barzal but I for one don't see him as a guaranteed NHL player just yet. I don't think it's as clear cut as you're making it sound.
- Cptmjl

The questions that need to be answered are 1) what is the TRUE asking price for Duchene? and 2) What would the Isles be willing to give up for him?.

If Barzal as part of a modest package was enough to land Duchene, I'd be willing to do that, and I think Snow would be to. But I doubt seriously that Barzal and Sorokin are the package that Sakic has been asking for (as the article alludes to). If so, the deal would be done already.

Giving up Barzal as part of a package for Duchene is fine, as long as the rest of the package isn't Pulock, a first and another top six forward like Nelson. That's a drastic overpayment for a player that, quite frankly, is not a game-changer and is only signed for two more seasons.

What would you give up for Duchene? I'd do Barzal, Nelson and Sorokin. If they want a 1st round pick, then one of Barzal or Sorokin are coming out of the deal for me.

Sakic has mishandled this situation completely. We b**ch about Snow being a bad GM, but the way Sakic has handled the Duchene mess makes Snow look like Ken Holland. Sakic is lucky he still has a job. His team is at the bottom of the league and he has completely messed up the handling of Duchene. Patience may pay off here. Snow may still get Duchene, albeit closer to September than fans would like. But if Snow is able to land Duchene for a fair deal, then who cares when the deal is made?

I'm getting tired of all the JT talk. I'm over it. The Isles are what they are. Snow is the GM. Weight is the coach. The ownership is who it is. They are in limbo on the arena front, but by all accounts are doing everything they can to get a new arena of their own at Belmont.

JT is well aware of what this organization is and what the talent level is organization-wide. If he wants to leave, then fine. Let him go. Trade him somewhere and get some pieces back. I'm not interested in having to beg someone to stay. If he wants to stay, fantastic. Then sign an extension before training camp and put an end to this crap. Get the talks going already. And that goes double for the Team. It sounds like nobody is approaching the other side about starting talks. Or maybe we're just in the dark about the progress of discussions.

I agree with you that I don't understand this misnomer that has developed that the Isles are a talent-less mess steaming into an abyss of irrelevance. There are good players on this team. There are good prospects in the system. This team is not garbage. Its a few pieces away from being a true contender. I can understand JT's hesitation if its arena-related, not knowing where he'd be playing long-term if he signs an extension. But if his concern is over the roster and talent in the organization, then I call bull**it on that.
- Jethro09

So since it's a slow, lazy summer day, I'll play devil's advocate. If we have so many good players on this team, and are so close to being a "true contender", how come we didn't even make the playoffs last season? And if we have so many good prospects in the system, how come Bridgeport is never a contender for the Calder Cup? I think like fans of all teams, we tend to over-rate our players and over-rate our prospects.

I think JT is frustrated, that after all those seasons of sucking, the Isles used their top 5 draft picks on the following major impact players: Niederreiter, Strome, Reinhart, and DalColle.

That's the old 10/90 business in the front, action in the back
- Upstate_isles

This chat reminded me of;

So since it's a slow, lazy summer day, I'll play devil's advocate. If we have so many good players on this team, and are so close to being a "true contender", how come we didn't even make the playoffs last season? And if we have so many good prospects in the system, how come Bridgeport is never a contender for the Calder Cup? I think like fans of all teams, we tend to over-rate our players and over-rate our prospects.

I think JT is frustrated, that after all those seasons of sucking, the Isles used their top 5 draft picks on the following major impact players: Niederreiter, Strome, Reinhart, and DalColle.

- JohnScammo

True contender? This team isn't that close to being a true contender. A true contender gets into the playoffs on a consistent basis. I mean has a PO seed locked up, not hoping to squeak in on the last day. A true contender is one piece away from a deep run. There are way too many question marks on this team to be considered close to being a true contender. That said, I still think there's talent on this squad. Maybe Weight & his new staff will prove me wrong (I hope) and have new systems in place that will be successful. Maybe the young guys will kick it into the next level. Maybe Pulock will have a great year. That's quite a few maybe's and it's just scratching the surface. We'll see what happens, but until Snow is gone, this team will not be a true contender.

So since it's a slow, lazy summer day, I'll play devil's advocate. If we have so many good players on this team, and are so close to being a "true contender", how come we didn't even make the playoffs last season? And if we have so many good prospects in the system, how come Bridgeport is never a contender for the Calder Cup? I think like fans of all teams, we tend to over-rate our players and over-rate our prospects.

I think JT is frustrated, that after all those seasons of sucking, the Isles used their top 5 draft picks on the following major impact players: Niederreiter, Strome, Reinhart, and DalColle.

- JohnScammo

They missed the playoffs by one point. One. And that was after a first three months of Cappy coaching this team into the ground and many players not performing anything close to their career averages. They were in dead last place in December. One Weight took over, they jumped six spots in the standings and missed the playoffs by one point.

Forget how we evaluate prospects. Look at how outsiders do. Barzal has been highly regarded across hockey. Ho-Sang clearly was labeled a "risk" by the Canadian media because of his outspokenness, but his play has shown he is a real good player. Beauvillier has shown he can be a player. Anders Lee has turned into a 30 goal scorer. On defense, Toews and Wortherspoon are highly regarded prospects. In goal, Sorokin and Soderstrom are both highly regarded prospects. Not by us, by people in hockey that evaluate talent for a living.

Every team misses on draft picks. Its not something that only Snow is guilty of. Plenty of teams have GMs that completely missed on guys. Strome was turned into Eberle, whom we all agree is a solid player and legit first line winger. Reinhart was flipped into assets to get Barzal and Beauvillier.

I think if you look at the organization objectively, you see some solid pieces. Are the Isles bubbling over with high-end prospects? No, but neither are the vast majority of organizations. If you look at the team, you see a team that made the playoffs three straight years until last season, four of the last six, and missed the playoffs by one point in one of those years. The Isles are not a doormat.

If JT is frustrated because his GM missed on a few high picks, then he's going to have very few organizations to go to where the GM's don't miss on draft picks. This organization and team is not the same team he played on his first few seasons. Nobody can dispute that. JT either wants to continue with this team or he doesn't. He's more than entitled to his decision, but if he wants out, I say trade him ASAP and get this drama over with. .

He didn't play more games because we had a moronic coach and an even dumber GM it had nothing to do with Pulock's play. With that said I'm not ready to hang my hat on any of these kids yet we need to see them actually play before we assume they're going to be better than anyone else.
- Cptmjl

Agree with bold above.

He had injuries and he needed to tighten up his defensive zone play imh. Saw him more than a few times at BP last few years, I mean Pelech got the nod over Pulock more than a few times.

His offensive abilities are there but when you jump from the AHL to NHL you point total drops in the NHL to about 50% of what it was in the AHL.

Going back to my original statement to say RP will be as good in the d zone as TH is wishful thinking. Could he be sure but let's let him play in the NHL for a season before we give him the Norris

They missed the playoffs by one point. One. And that was after a first three months of Cappy coaching this team into the ground and many players not performing anything close to their career averages. They were in dead last place in December. One Weight took over, they jumped six spots in the standings and missed the playoffs by one point.

Forget how we evaluate prospects. Look at how outsiders do. Barzal has been highly regarded across hockey. Ho-Sang clearly was labeled a "risk" by the Canadian media because of his outspokenness, but his play has shown he is a real good player. Beauvillier has shown he can be a player. Anders Lee has turned into a 30 goal scorer. On defense, Toews and Wortherspoon are highly regarded prospects. In goal, Sorokin and Soderstrom are both highly regarded prospects. Not by us, by people in hockey that evaluate talent for a living.

Every team misses on draft picks. Its not something that only Snow is guilty of. Plenty of teams have GMs that completely missed on guys. Strome was turned into Eberle, whom we all agree is a solid player and legit first line winger. Reinhart was flipped into assets to get Barzal and Beauvillier.

I think if you look at the organization objectively, you see some solid pieces. Are the Isles bubbling over with high-end prospects? No, but neither are the vast majority of organizations. If you look at the team, you see a team that made the playoffs three straight years until last season, four of the last six, and missed the playoffs by one point in one of those years. The Isles are not a doormat.

If JT is frustrated because his GM missed on a few high picks, then he's going to have very few organizations to go to where the GM's don't miss on draft picks. This organization and team is not the same team he played on his first few seasons. Nobody can dispute that. JT either wants to continue with this team or he doesn't. He's more than entitled to his decision, but if he wants out, I say trade him ASAP and get this drama over with. .
- Jethro09

The Islanders are the 3rd lowest ranked team in the NHL players want to go to.
I don't think you can blame JT for taking his time making this decision which will for the most part be his last and where he will play for the rest of his career. He has earned that right and the fact he hasn't said get me the phuck out of this shat show, means he's trying to find reasons to stay.
Again the majority of the NHL players don't want to come here so that should tell us something about how the organization as a whole is viewed, from players their agents and all NHL hockey fans.

They missed the playoffs by one point. One. And that was after a first three months of Cappy coaching this team into the ground and many players not performing anything close to their career averages. They were in dead last place in December. One Weight took over, they jumped six spots in the standings and missed the playoffs by one point.

Forget how we evaluate prospects. Look at how outsiders do. Barzal has been highly regarded across hockey. Ho-Sang clearly was labeled a "risk" by the Canadian media because of his outspokenness, but his play has shown he is a real good player. Beauvillier has shown he can be a player. Anders Lee has turned into a 30 goal scorer. On defense, Toews and Wortherspoon are highly regarded prospects. In goal, Sorokin and Soderstrom are both highly regarded prospects. Not by us, by people in hockey that evaluate talent for a living.

Every team misses on draft picks. Its not something that only Snow is guilty of. Plenty of teams have GMs that completely missed on guys. Strome was turned into Eberle, whom we all agree is a solid player and legit first line winger. Reinhart was flipped into assets to get Barzal and Beauvillier.

I think if you look at the organization objectively, you see some solid pieces. Are the Isles bubbling over with high-end prospects? No, but neither are the vast majority of organizations. If you look at the team, you see a team that made the playoffs three straight years until last season, four of the last six, and missed the playoffs by one point in one of those years. The Isles are not a doormat.

If JT is frustrated because his GM missed on a few high picks, then he's going to have very few organizations to go to where the GM's don't miss on draft picks. This organization and team is not the same team he played on his first few seasons. Nobody can dispute that. JT either wants to continue with this team or he doesn't. He's more than entitled to his decision, but if he wants out, I say trade him ASAP and get this drama over with. .
- Jethro09

Mostly valid points. A few quibbles, however..... Isles did not make the playoffs 3 straight seasons, they made it 2 straight seasons.

More importantly, yes GMs miss on draft picks. However, unless DalColle begins to improve, Garth will be 0 for 4 on Top 5 picks. Top 5 picks should generally result in impact players (either a Top 6 forward or a Top 4 d-man). Garth has a nasty habit of striking out there. And I'm giving him a pass for 2008, when he traded down from the Top 5 to pick Josh Bailey.

And as far as salvaging value for those picks? Strome was used to get Eberle, a soft player who is a bit of a question mark in terms of handling his defensive responsibilities. Niederreiter got us Clutterbuck, now one of the most expensive 4th liners in the NHL. Reinhart got us Barzal and (with additional picks to trade up) allowed us draft Beau, neither of whom has proven themselves to be impact players at the NHL level.

JT has watched the Islanders go from NHL doormat to a truly mediocre team. No wonder he isn't breaking down Garth's door to sign an extension.

Mostly valid points. A few quibbles, however..... Isles did not make the playoffs 3 straight seasons, they made it 2 straight seasons.

More importantly, yes GMs miss on draft picks. However, unless DalColle begins to improve, Garth will be 0 for 4 on Top 5 picks. Top 5 picks should generally result in impact players (either a Top 6 forward or a Top 4 d-man). Garth has a nasty habit of striking out there. And I'm giving him a pass for 2008, when he traded down from the Top 5 to pick Josh Bailey.

And as far as salvaging value for those picks? Strome was used to get Eberle, a soft player who is a bit of a question mark in terms of handling his defensive responsibilities. Niederreiter got us Clutterbuck, now one of the most expensive 4th liners in the NHL. Reinhart got us Barzal and (with additional picks to trade up) allowed us draft Beau, neither of whom has proven themselves to be impact players at the NHL level.

JT has watched the Islanders go from NHL doormat to a truly mediocre team. No wonder he isn't breaking down Garth's door to sign an extension.
- JohnScammo

I agree but with that said that's not going to change between now and September so if he's still apprehensive by the start of camp let's trade the guy.

I agree but with that said that's not going to change between now and September so if he's still apprehensive by the start of camp let's trade the guy.
- Cptmjl

I agree. The Isles need to maximize JT's value. They will get a lot more for him in September than at the trade deadline.

I agree. The Isles need to maximize JT's value. They will get a lot more for him in September than at the trade deadline.
- JohnScammo

Unless JT publicly announces he wants to explore free agency there is no chance Snow trades JT, 0.00% chance. He will either sign JT or let him walk for nothing. He will go to the mat on this. Its all up to JT now.

I agree. The Isles need to maximize JT's value. They will get a lot more for him in September than at the trade deadline.
- JohnScammo

This team can not afford to lose JT for nothing.
That said, I'm not at all comfortable with Garth being the person running point on this .

This team can not afford to lose JT for nothing.
That said, I'm not at all comfortable with Garth being the person running point on this .
- nyisles7

FUBAR

The Islanders are the 3rd lowest ranked team in the NHL players want to go to.
I don't think you can blame JT for taking his time making this decision which will for the most part be his last and where he will play for the rest of his career. He has earned that right and the fact he hasn't said get me the phuck out of this shat show, means he's trying to find reasons to stay.
Again the majority of the NHL players don't want to come here so that should tell us something about how the organization as a whole is viewed, from players their agents and all NHL hockey fans.
- nyisles7

Where are you getting these statistics from?

If I was JTs neighbor, I would blast this song everyday out my window until the day he signs an extension...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60fqp2rLUR4

Unless JT publicly announces he wants to explore free agency there is no chance Snow trades JT, 0.00% chance. He will either sign JT or let him walk for nothing. He will go to the mat on this. Its all up to JT now.
- JimmyP

I doubt he does it publicly. If anything, he'll have a private discussion with the team and not go public, so he doesn't f**k the Isles over by bending them over a barrel because other teams knows he wants out.

Where are you getting these statistics from?
- Jethro09

It's pretty much a given that Edmonton, Winnipeg Buffalo and the Islanders are the winners in this category yearly. Players vote on it.

I mean it doesn't mean FA won't come. Ladd came after he was given an incredibly stupid bonus heavy contract

I doubt he does it publicly. If anything, he'll have a private discussion with the team and not go public, so he doesn't f**k the Isles over by bending them over a barrel because other teams knows he wants out.
- Jethro09

Yes he would probably do it privately. However the second Snow speaks to another GM about JT they will know what's going on. Once word gets out (like it always does) it won't make a difference.

If I was JTs neighbor, I would blast this song everyday out my window until the day he signs an extension...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60fqp2rLUR4
- Dedshark

He'd demand to be traded after an hour.