There's no reason to pay Sheary 4 mil just for him to be a healthy scratch in the playoffs. Sheary is far easier to replace than Maatta - they've already got two guys in-house in Sprong and ZAR, whereas after Maatta there is literally nothing in the organization to replace him with.

And P/60 is such a useless stat. Games aren't played in 60 minute intervals, and not every minute of every game is the same.

That stat tends to skew towards guys who aren't entrusted with playing the tough minutes.

GMJR saying internal projections of Sheary/Dumo AAV would leave ~$2M for 3C. seems like that means they're expecting ~$4M for Sheary

I doubt Maatta ever sniffs 40 points.
- j.boyd919

Some of the passes he made in the playoffs made him look like it'd be possible. He has the skill to make plays. Not sure if it's a confidence issue or what. He is a heads up player in the O zone.

Why is it so hard to conceptualize trading from a strength to address a weakness?? Seriously, wanting to trade Sheary or Maatta or whoever is not an indictment of that player. It doesn't mean we "Want to get rid of him". It means they are more expendable than other players while still having significant trade value.

If it takes trading Sheary to get an above average 3C, I'd rather have the above average 3C and let Sheary be backfilled by ZAR or Sprong. It's better than keeping Sheary and having Rowney as the 3C.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

It's actually not hard at all. I'm advocating for trading Maatta, as I see him as the most expendable player on the Pens D that would fetch the best return. I see a 50+ point winger way more valuable than a 20-25 point LD on a team that lives and dies by their forwards. I would rather continue stacking the forwards as much as possible and playing to the strengths of the roster. Pens could sign Cody Franson on the cheap, while getting similar production to Olli Maatta, and playing him in a proper role (3rd pairing.) while keeping Sheary-Sid-Guentzel together and using Maatta to find a 3C.

It's actually not hard at all. I'm advocating for trading Maatta, as I see him as the most expendable player on the Pens D that would fetch the best return. I see a 50+ point winger way more valuable than a 20-25 point LD on a team that lives and dies by their forwards. I would rather continue stacking the forwards as much as possible and playing to the strengths of the roster. Pens could sign Cody Franson on the cheap, while getting similar production to Olli Maatta, and playing him in a proper role (3rd pairing.) while keeping Sheary-Sid-Guentzel together and using Maatta to find a 3C.
- j.boyd919

So then dont jump down peoples throats about trading Sheary. Same exact concept as you "wanting" to trade Maatta.

Speaking of, I think thats where we differ in opinion. Maatta + Sprong/Zar at $5M for the next 3-4 years.... is better than some slum like Franson + Sheary who will cost $7-8M total with less term certainty...

There's no reason to pay Sheary 4 mil just for him to be a healthy scratch in the playoffs. Sheary is far easier to replace than Maatta - they've already got two guys in-house in Sprong and ZAR, whereas after Maatta there is literally nothing in the organization to replace him with.

And P/60 is such a useless stat. Games aren't played in 60 minute intervals, and not every minute of every game is the same.

That stat tends to skew towards guys who aren't entrusted with playing the tough minutes.
- hardnosed

Im not a hardcore be all end all numbers guy but I do find them interesting and think they can hold some value in decision making. Some of the things beings tracked I find laughable but I dont mind P/60. Its basically showing who is the most productive with their time on ice.

I do understand what you mean by not every minute of every game is the same. The game of hockey has way to many variables from one game to the next, hell, from one shift to the next, to be totally accurately quantified by these numbers.

I mean, look at this most recent cup run. It took a huge sh!t on all the numbers guys haha.

GMJR saying internal projections of Sheary/Dumo AAV would leave ~$2M for 3C. seems like that means they're expecting ~$4M for Sheary
- YouMeAndDupuis9

so expanding on that... straight from the horses mouth $2M budget for a C squashes most of our top targets, no? Or is he not admitting he may deal a roster player?

So then dont jump down peoples throats about trading Sheary. Same exact concept as you "wanting" to trade Maatta.

Speaking of, I think thats where we differ in opinion. Maatta + Sprong/Zar at $5M for the next 3-4 years.... is better than some slum like Franson + Sheary who will cost $7-8M total with less term certainty...
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Another thing is you just dont know how players will work in new settings. Pens had almost the same team two years in a row and they won it all two years in a row. Those casts of characters worked. Its proven. Just because a player has good fancy stats or production with another team, it doesn't mean they will with the Pens. Maatta works with the Pens.

So then dont jump down peoples throats about trading Sheary. Same exact concept as you "wanting" to trade Maatta.

Speaking of, I think thats where we differ in opinion. Maatta + Sprong/Zar at $5M for the next 3-4 years.... is better than some slum like Franson + Sheary who will cost $7-8M total with less term certainty...
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Sprong and Zar wont' be sub million for long. Isn't this the last year of Sprong's elc? So if he would put up numbers this year with the pens he gets paid. ZAR I believe his elc from college is 2 years and then he gets rfa money. Both controlled better than UFA guys, but sprong especially isn't necessarily cheap for long.

Sprong and Zar wont' be sub million for long. Isn't this the last year of Sprong's elc? So if he would put up numbers this year with the pens he gets paid. ZAR I believe his elc from college is 2 years and then he gets rfa money. Both controlled better than UFA guys, but sprong especially isn't necessarily cheap for long.
- sditulli

If he doesn't spend the full year here, he can't put up.big numbers.

so expanding on that... straight from the horses mouth $2M budget for a C squashes most of our top targets, no? Or is he not admitting he may deal a roster player?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Or they trade Kessel

so expanding on that... straight from the horses mouth $2M budget for a C squashes most of our top targets, no? Or is he not admitting he may deal a roster player?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'm not listening but Filiponi's twitter says 2M player. Yeah, I think that rules out most everyone we've been discussing.

I could see that changing though.

Some of the passes he made in the playoffs made him look like it'd be possible. He has the skill to make plays. Not sure if it's a confidence issue or what. He is a heads up player in the O zone.
- Thorny87

If he had a partner who was less of a freelancer (like Daley and Letang) and was allowed to push his offensive skills, he's more than capable of putting up around 40 points, even without PP time.

I mean, he was on a 37 point pace his second year before cancer/shoulder/mumps.

Hainsey was a train wreck all playoffs and regular season besides a few key plays.
- rbaurle51

And we turned him into Trevor van Reimsdyk!

Barring a trade how does the D shake out?

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Cole - Hunwick

?

Barring a trade how does the D shake out?

Dumo - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Cole - Hunwick

?
- Thorny87

Theres nothing wrong with that at all. Its better than what won the cup.

Not saying youre saying theres anything wrong with it.....I just like the look of it is all.

Theres nothing wrong with that at all. Its better than what won the cup.

Not saying youre saying theres anything wrong with it.....I just like the look of it is all.
- MattStrat

Not at all man, that's why I was asking, Looks good to me. I wanted to hear reasons why some think it's not. Other than the eventual injuries.

That 3C hole is glaring though.

If he had a partner who was less of a freelancer (like Daley and Letang) and was allowed to push his offensive skills, he's more than capable of putting up around 40 points, even without PP time.

I mean, he was on a 37 point pace his second year before cancer/shoulder/mumps.
- hardnosed

I like the optimism

So then dont jump down peoples throats about trading Sheary. Same exact concept as you "wanting" to trade Maatta.

Speaking of, I think thats where we differ in opinion. Maatta + Sprong/Zar at $5M for the next 3-4 years.... is better than some slum like Franson + Sheary who will cost $7-8M total with less term certainty...
- YouMeAndDupuis9

It's the internet bud, if you think anyone is jumping down anyone's throat on here, that's comical. lol

But no, I don't believe it is the same concept as me wanted to trade Maatta. Sheary produced top line winger points last season. Maatta produced points at a bottom pairing rate while playing in a top 4 role.

In what world is a top line winger less valuable than a mid-pairing defender?

I can't see for the life of me how a top line winger + a mid/bottom 6 pairing guy at say 7 million per year is worth less than a mid/bottom 6 pairing guy and 2 prospects who may not crack the NHL roster for a year or 2 at 4-5m.

Or they trade Kessel
- sammy87

They're not trading the highest scoring playoff performer of the past two seasons, one a lot of people thought should of received the Conn Smythe two years ago, this summer.

Not at all man, that's why I was asking, Looks good to me. I wanted to hear reasons why some think it's not. Other than the eventual injuries.

That 3C hole is glaring though.
- Thorny87

Indeed it is. Thats why I think Shaery or Hagelin go...but I dont wanna lose either.


The next two defensemen up are Ruhdwel and Pouliot. Ruhdwel, to me, has shown he really fits in with the Pens system. Plenty of times last season I thought he would end up being a 6D mainstay.

GMJR saying internal projections of Sheary/Dumo AAV would leave ~$2M for 3C. seems like that means they're expecting ~$4M for Sheary
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Pay that man!

Indeed it is. Thats why I think Shaery or Hagelin go...but I dont wanna lose either.


The next two defensemen up are Ruhdwel and Pouliot. Ruhwedel, to me, has shown he really fits in with the Pens system. Plenty of times last season I thought he would end up being a 6D mainstay.
- MattStrat

EDIT: Also, Ruhd is a righty

And we turned him into Trevor van Reimsdyk!
- BINGO!

And he was second in TOI for the defense during the playoffs helping the team win the Cup despite what all the naysayers say. It was a good trade and well worth the 2nd.