Is Marcel Goc available?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Other teams will offer more for Goc than the Pens would. Nice to dream though.

Eh, no thanks. He is a 4th line center and he is a player in decline. In the link, change the archetype to 4C and it will be closer to what Stajan is than 3C. Comes alive in the playoffs? 4 points in 17 games and a big goose egg in 3 games his years says otherwise. I like his defense ok and the fact that he plays PK, but he is average at faceoffs and is just a run-of-the-mill 4C at this stage of his career. There are a bunch of FA centers still available that are as good or better that can be had for free and for a much smaller contract. You would be lucky to get rid of him and that contract.
- T-Train

I figured we'd probably retain enough to bring him down to say 2 mill (plus only 1 year remaining). I thought the pens would be after value adds, not sure what the pens contract status is like but we could take one back (AHL) if you guys are close to the maximum.

I'd say he's an okay 3c on plenty of teams or a good 4c on a good team. He did not have very good linemates for the last few years (he had Brouwer weighing him down in the playoffs)....also, our whole team wasn't very effective in the playoffs last year

The 4 points in 11 games he had 2 years ago as our 4C is what was standing out to me. He had a good playoffs for us that year and he just looks more noticeable on the ice during playoff time (even if the results aren't always there).

But fair enough. Wasn't sure how desperate the pens were (or what their general game plan was (maybe add a cheap veteran 3C like Stajan and go for a bigger fish like Landeskog? ). Stajan probably would fit in better with a rebuilding team in need of bottom 6 help though...

Edit:
Stajan can kill penalties though

Connor Brown is gonna be a stud. 20 goals last year in his rookie year. Sprong is still a year or so away. I would trade Sprong for a cost controlled RW that's about to hit his prime for the last few years of Geno/Sid's prime.

Guentzel-Sid-Brown
Sheary-Geno-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Bozak-Kessel
Rust-Rowney/Cullen-Reeves

Those forwards are going to score... a lot.
- j.boyd919

I just can't see brown traded...he's a really good young player who really wants to be in Toronto.

Seems like a book or bust player.

At 4 million for 5 years that's tough to take on
- Santo_44

Gm's value him differently. Chicago just traded good assets for a player on the same contract with less upside and isn't nearly as good today.

Hainsey gets $3 million in ufa. Maatta is perennially underrated and his upside is still present.

If Little is available, you go for him. Luxury as a 3rd line center.

Ive pondered wether Bozak for Maata would Ben a good idea or not.

Maata-Rielly
Gardiner-Zaitzev
Hainsey-Lilagren

That might not be too bad in a couple years.
- Santo_44

It would be more like bozak plus a first and 2nd for maatta. Pending UFA centers are side pieces in deal for a 22 year old functional and proven 2nd pairing defenseman.

What if it's Maatta+Sprong for Bozak+Brown?
- j.boyd919

Are you high today. I know maatta looks bad some times but he's 22 and a defenseman.

Are you high today. I know maatta looks bad some times but he's 22 and a defenseman.
- sditulli

Yeah, that's a terrible trade idea. I'm not a huge fan of Maatta, but man, Maatta and Sprong? He's smokin that good stuff.

Maata is definitely a top 4 caliber left handed D. He's proven enough to atleast be that. The upside is that he can work on strength and footwork. If he does he's a top pairing guy. He's worth more than we give him credit for.

I figured we'd probably retain enough to bring him down to say 2 mill (plus only 1 year remaining). I thought the pens would be after value adds, not sure what the pens contract status is like but we could take one back (AHL) if you guys are close to the maximum.

I'd say he's an okay 3c on plenty of teams or a good 4c on a good team. He did not have very good linemates for the last few years (he had Brouwer weighing him down in the playoffs)....also, our whole team wasn't very effective in the playoffs last year

The 4 points in 11 games he had 2 years ago as our 4C is what was standing out to me. He had a good playoffs for us that year and he just looks more noticeable on the ice during playoff time (even if the results aren't always there).

But fair enough. Wasn't sure how desperate the pens were (or what their general game plan was (maybe add a cheap veteran 3C like Stajan and go for a bigger fish like Landeskog? ). Stajan probably would fit in better with a rebuilding team in need of bottom 6 help though...

Edit:
Stajan can kill penalties though
- Saskabush

If Cullen retires and we land our 3c I'd take stajan as a 4 c as long as salary is retained. As it stands, the Pens have cap space, tradable assets, and a decent amount of depth. They aren't going to be desperate for anything.

I guess this conversation comes down to... do we think they could get somone as good as Maatta/Bozak in FA next offseason.

if they can, then who really cares about Maatta's years of control?


However, even if Maatta for Bozak is fair, they need a 3C that can kill penalties effectively, dont they? If the Pens had more penalty killers, i'd welcome Bozak. But they don't have enough penalty killers to employ an offense-first 3C.
- poopmouth

I agree with this. Maatta's contract represents both risk and the potential for reward. Will he become a good 2D? Maybe (I sort of doubt it), but if he does, then the Pens have a good deal. He will never be a 1D (based on a lot of factors) and he plays the left side, so 2D is his ceiling. If he becomes a 4D with deficiencies in his game, which would describe him now, then the contract is pretty average - high now but will become low later. And then he could continue to be injury-plagued with little offense and a liability due to his speed, leaving fans shaking their heads wishing he were a healthy scratch as is sometimes the case now.

To your point, could the Pens get Markov for $4 mil right now? Is he as good or better than Maatta overall? Sure, Markov is at the end of his career and there is no untapped potential, but so what? The Pens are in win-now mode. Just as an example of good FA middle-pairing defensemen who are always available.

And I agree with your last point. I wouldn't nix a deal simply due to not playing PK, but we need a good defensive 3C who can win faceoffs. I don't care what the Pens did with Bonino and how Bonino did this last year. If Kessel is on the third line, get a C who can play D. If Crosby and Malkin continue to be sub-par at faceoffs, get a 3C who can win a high percentage of faceoffs. And we lost a lot of PKers, so we need a 3C who plays the PK.

I actually think he has lots of room to get better. He lost quite a few offseasons there and that set back his development. And he's only 22.

As far as speed, I never recall thinking he was slow during his rookie year. And I don't think that perception is there now because he's that slow, it's more that he gets hung out to dry by his partners and gets caught flat footed because of it, which will make any D man look slow.

At this point, Maatta is kind of like Paul Martin. Underappreciated, not flashy, jack of all trades kind of guy who does all the little things but doesn't stand out, and then will make a mistake or get beat and people harp on him.
- hardnosed

Martin is a pretty good comparable to the type of guy Maatta could be except for the skating. Martin in his prime was an elite skater and Maatta probably never will be.

Yeah, that's a terrible trade idea. I'm not a huge fan of Maatta, but man, Maatta and Sprong? He's smokin that good stuff.
- Rinosaur

How is it a terrible idea? Pens have a surplus of LD. Dumo, Cole, Hunwick could be 1,2,3.. making Maatta expendable. You trade him for a 23 year old stud who had a 128 point season in Erie, scored 20 goals as a rookie on what I think was the 3rd like in Toronto. So you just get an NHL ready winger to replace Sprong who may not be ready for the NHL yet. So you add to the already most potent forward group in the NHL, maximize the next 3 years of Sid/Geno/Kessel/Letang while they're still at the top of their game. You add a 3C that's proven in the last to put up points with Kessel and get rid of the log jam on LD.

Seems like a book or bust player.

At 4 million for 5 years that's tough to take on
- Santo_44

My opinion would be more of a high floor player with a limited ceiling. He's 22 and been playing 2nd pair for 3 years so he won't be a bust. Just not sure how much better he'll get.

Fair enough. I can see that. For the Pens I'm just not a fan of trading a player under contract for Bozak who will be UFA at the end of the season.
- j.boyd919

I agree with that. Don't think management woild do that either, they seem to be higher on Maatta's potential then most fans.

How is it a terrible idea? Pens have a surplus of LD. Dumo, Cole, Hunwick could be 1,2,3.. making Maatta expendable. You trade him for a 23 year old stud who had a 128 point season in Erie, scored 20 goals as a rookie on what I think was the 3rd like in Toronto. So you just get an NHL ready winger to replace Sprong who may not be ready for the NHL yet. So you add to the already most potent forward group in the NHL, maximize the next 3 years of Sid/Geno/Kessel/Letang while they're still at the top of their game. You add a 3C that's proven in the last to put up points with Kessel and get rid of the log jam on LD.
- j.boyd919

I'm vehemently against moving Sprong. I have no real rationale behind it other than I feel he's going to be an absolute beast.

I'm fine with moving Maatta for Bozak, but TOR needs to add more. Maatta is a young cost-controlled dman and Bozak has only this year left on his contract.

My opinion would be more of a high floor player with a limited ceiling. He's 22 and been playing 2nd pair for 3 years so he won't be a bust. Just not sure how much better he'll get.
- Tojo.

I would agree with that, with the only caveat that injuries could make him a bust (or at least a guy who only plays at most 75% of games in a season, which means always having to keep extra defensemen around and elevating guys above their comfort level).

Also, a lot of middle pairing dmen are pretty average at just about everything - average speed, hands, stickwork, offense, physicality, hockey IQ, etc. Maatta is at both ends of the spectrum for various qualities. This means he can often look really good or really bad, sometimes in the same play! Like getting danced or beat to a loose puck because he is so slow but then using his superior stickwork to get the puck back. What do you make of that??

I'm vehemently against moving Sprong. I have no real rationale behind it other than I feel he's going to be an absolute beast.

I'm fine with moving Maatta for Bozak, but TOR needs to add more. Maatta is a young cost-controlled dman and Bozak has only this year left on his contract.
- Rinosaur

Connor Brown already showed NHL talent last season. Sprong could be a year or 2 away. I'd rather try to maximize the pens roster in these next 2 or 3 years before any kind of decline gets drastic.

josh archibald and pouliot resigned. pouliot 6 million 1 year deal

Connor Brown already showed NHL talent last season. Sprong could be a year or 2 away. I'd rather try to maximize the pens roster in these next 2 or 3 years before any kind of decline gets drastic.
- j.boyd919

At 22 he wasn't even a ppg player in the ahl. He's not worth maatta who at 19 was a solid NHL defenseman.

Big time pass.

Also if you did the deal it would be maatta for brown

No reason to give up sprong for a rental 3c

At 22 he wasn't even a ppg player in the ahl. He's not worth maatta who at 19 was a solid NHL defenseman.

Big time pass.

Also if you did the deal it would be maatta for brown

No reason to give up sprong for a rental 3c
- sditulli

Maatta ain't 19 anymore. And he hasn't looked as good as he was that season. So that's a bad comparison.

josh archibald and pouliot resigned. pouliot 6 million 1 year deal
- martox

Archibald 2yr deal at $675,000/yr and Pouliot a 1yr deal at $800,000
Both are 1 way deals

Maatta at 20 put up 29 pts in 78 games playing defense and you want to trade him for a guy who at 23 put 36 pts in 82 games playing forward.

Maatta ain't 19 anymore. And he hasn't looked as good as he was that season. So that's a bad comparison.
- j.boyd919

So if he ever recovers from cancer and really trains he has 2d potential versus a David Perron rent a top 6 forward

If Cullen retires and we land our 3c I'd take stajan as a 4 c as long as salary is retained. As it stands, the Pens have cap space, tradable assets, and a decent amount of depth. They aren't going to be desperate for anything.
- cranktheradio

Fair enough. We have about 435 players battling for spots on the 4th line so I'm sure he could be had for pretty cheap with some salary retained to make it work.

That's if we are even looking to trade him. I think we only look to offload his salary if we

a. Get burned in arbitration (Ferland).
b. Need room to bring in Jagr.
c. Combination of a & b.