Some interesting "selective statistics" here:

1) CF 5-on-5 or overall, because if it's only 5-on-5, no, faceoffs are not as important.

By the same token, please come out and say if you're implying they aren't important on special teams——which, by the way, is really the point I made.

And why cite the 'top 20?' Seems like an odd metric. How about the top 10?

How about . . . say . . . just picking a name out of a hat . . . the Chicago Blackhawks, let's talk about them, ok?

They were 49.9% in CF% in the regular season (but finished with the best record in the West—but fancy possession stats, they mean everything!)—and were 47.7% in the dot.

2) OK, so Anaheim wins draws and are overall not a great possession team. Like that's never happened before?

3) Who made the argument that face-offs mean possession—beyond the fact that in some situations at least, like in man-advantage situations and penalty kill— they do mean, quite literally, possessing the puck?

4) No argument, they are one part of the game.

And a center who can't win draws in critical situations is a center with a flaw in his game.
- John Jaeckel

Of the top ten. 2 were below 50%. 2 at 50% Pitts was one of the two below 50%. Hawks were the other. Hawks were above 50% CF. Not by much but were above.

I have seen plenty mistake FO for possessions. Not you but was speaking in general. I have stated more than a few times, don't tell me how many you win but when.

The whole FO isn't limited to this thread. I see it everywhere.

The Hayden love is a bit confusing to me. I saw a big body with decent hands that couldn't keep up with the NHL pace. IF Hayden has been able to improve his foot-speed and overall quickness/agility, then he could be a useful big body in the bottom 6. I think he is FAR from a lock to make the roster out of training camp for that reason, as well as the logjam of bottom 6 forwards the Hawks have under contract.

I don't think the Leafs will have anybody knocking down their door to offer a top notch defenceman in exchange for a LW one year away from UFA status. And now that Marleau got $6.3M for 3 years, JVR will want that or more and 30 other teams know the Loafs aren't able to cough up that kind of cake.
- RickJ

Neither do I unless JVR is part of a larger package. I don't see the Leafs extending him unless he takes a deal below his market value. Or they move one of Marner or Nylander. Which, imo, would be pretty idiotic.

Oh, please don't speak in code. Come out and say what ya really think, big guy. Eli might (or might not) be around, but I'm more than glad to handle it.
- John Jaeckel

TSJ. Thin Skinned Johnny.

You know, because of how defensive you get when anyone challenges the established JJ narrative.

Not sure if this means anything, but Bouma isn't listed on the roster on the Blackhawks website. Recent acquisitions that are listed include: Saad, Sharp, Wingels, Murphy, Rutta, Oesterle, Berube, and Forsberg.
- AEL_Fox

I wouldn't read too much into it,

yeah the kid Raddyh, is a RW and was drafted by TB, took a step forward.

HERE is what I meant:

Do yopu REALLY think Lou and Babs are gonna weaken that line up with a trade now?

They want to recreate the same momentum and will not weaken their line up prior to the playoff.

babcock is talking about the future...moving on, one or two of these four will be subtractions...

so unless YOU me and babcock think their line up is solid w/o two of them to CONTEND, and that calls to light some rookie being able to replace them right now,
they stay FOR NOW.

There is no way I can read Babcock as saying, "someone is going now because they are...."
- wiz1901

Of course Babcock is including the immediate future as Unrestricted Free Agency looms.

Agreed Sage. That was my main issue with the construction of the PAK line in the playoffs. I thought the second line needed a guy better at bird-dogging the puck
- grinder10

AA was getting beat clean in the Nashville Series. Draws weren't even close. It was laughable. Hulk and Thor as wingers couldn't have helped.

Funny, how some always come here (for years now) and criticize the "tone of the board," speak in code, pile on, send nasty little PMs—in between excoriating other posters for their lack of knowledge—but when called on it, someone else always "started it first."

Classic.
- John Jaeckel

Idk why you replied to my comment with this tbh. Maybe misplaced projection? I can only speak on my own opinion about the board, but you really don't think this board sometimes has a trigger for being overly negative and/or beating dead horse subjects sometimes? Being critical of a team you love is part of being a fan and collective groups tend to feed of each other (human nature), but sometimes you gotta let the love speak too and be more constructive. Gotta try to pep things up with all the grumpy old men!

I frequent a lot of Hawks blogs and wouldn't spend time here if I didn't enjoy the discussions I have here overall. Not always, but no place is perfect lol.

PS. Just so it's not read into for something it's not, the grumpy old men thing is a joke playing off the discussion from the other day

The Hayden love is a bit confusing to me. I saw a big body with decent hands that couldn't keep up with the NHL pace. IF Hayden has been able to improve his foot-speed and overall quickness/agility, then he could be a useful big body in the bottom 6. I think he is FAR from a lock to make the roster out of training camp for that reason, as well as the logjam of bottom 6 forwards the Hawks have under contract.
- EnzoD

I agree. Part of it is that his size is appealing when looking for balance in a lineup, but his speed wasn't made up for by size or his likely above average hockey IQ. I am interested to see if he's progressed over the summer but he wouldn't be a bad idea for him to take a year to play in the AHL to work specifically on his skating.

AA was getting beat clean in the Nashville Series. Draws weren't even close. It was laughable. Hulk and Thor as wingers couldn't have helped.
- Z3Hawk

That's putting it mildly, went back and looked wow!

AA
game one FO 61%
game two FO 25%
game three FO 11.8%
game four FO 20%

I agree. Part of it is that his size is appealing when looking for balance in a lineup, but his speed wasn't made up for by size or his likely above average hockey IQ. I am interested to see if he's progressed over the summer but he wouldn't be a bad idea for him to take a year to play in the AHL to work specifically on his skating.
- L_B_R

Staying on the topic of guys who aren't great skaters.....what are your thoughts on Jagr for a 1 year contract? I know you love the advanced stats, and his advanced stats appear to be very good just skimming over a few other blogs on hockeybuzz. He is a big body, would replace some of the veteran leadership lost this summer, and could slot in with 15+88. Jagr for 1 year at $1mil is something I'd strongly consider if I were Stan Bowman....

That's putting it mildly, went back and looked wow!

AA
game one FO 61%
game two FO 25%
game three FO 11.8%
game four FO 20%
- walleyeb1

In fairness, Anisimov was playing on 1 leg. IMO, he shouldn't have even dressed in that series bc his physical limitations made him essentially worthless on the ice.

In fairness, Anisimov was playing on 1 leg. IMO, he shouldn't have even dressed in that series bc his physical limitations made him essentially worthless on the ice.
- EnzoD

Good point, I wondered about that trying to remember and forget at the same time!

Idk why you replied to my comment with this tbh. Maybe misplaced projection? I can only speak on my own opinion about the board, but you really don't think this board sometimes has a trigger for being overly negative and/or beating dead horse subjects sometimes? Being critical of a team you love is part of being a fan and collective groups tend to feed of each other (human nature), but sometimes you gotta let the love speak too and be more constructive. Gotta try to pep things up with all the grumpy old men!

I frequent a lot of Hawks blogs and wouldn't spend time here if I didn't enjoy the discussions I have here overall. Not always, but no place is perfect lol.

PS. Just so it's not read into for something it's not, the grumpy old men thing is a joke playing off the discussion from the other day
- L_B_R

This gets brought up every now and then, the whole "is HB too negative?" theme. The answer as always is yes, from time to time it can be, and its completely natural and goes along with what you see with all Hawks boards/fansites.....AND all sites for any teams that achieve success. Naturally, fans of teams that achieve massive amounts of success build up a certain level of expectations and attention to detail that comes off as overly critical/negative.
Once you get the level where its championship or bust, you'll know you're officially spoiled/rooting for a special team. These Hawks have gotten us to that point, and now the fans everywhere are very hard to please.

Staying on the topic of guys who aren't great skaters.....what are your thoughts on Jagr for a 1 year contract? I know you love the advanced stats, and his advanced stats appear to be very good just skimming over a few other blogs on hockeybuzz. He is a big body, would replace some of the veteran leadership lost this summer, and could slot in with 15+88. Jagr for 1 year at $1mil is something I'd strongly consider if I were Stan Bowman....
- EnzoD

Might as well bring in a complete 4th line of Jagr centering Iginla and Doan. Maybe sign Markov too, would provide veteran presence with young D guys. Q would love it.

Staying on the topic of guys who aren't great skaters.....what are your thoughts on Jagr for a 1 year contract? I know you love the advanced stats, and his advanced stats appear to be very good just skimming over a few other blogs on hockeybuzz. He is a big body, would replace some of the veteran leadership lost this summer, and could slot in with 15+88. Jagr for 1 year at $1mil is something I'd strongly consider if I were Stan Bowman....
- EnzoD

I actually go and back and forth on my opinion on Jagr. He benefited statistically from playing with some really high quality of teammates in Florida in recent years, so he it's hard to say if he'd do well away from them so he'd most likely need to be in the top 6, as you suggest. Would it be too slow a line with both Jagr and Anisimov, though? Can he withstand an entire playoffs if it comes down to it? He's faded a bit sooner every year it seems. On the cheap, it is low risk and it's definitely worth considering. He's better than Doan or Iggy at this point, at the very least.

What would you characterize as bad? When he's not playing on a bum ankle like he was in the playoffs he's a career 46% on face offs. That's pretty much a coin flip on draws and would probably be better characterized as average than bad.

Cost controlled and paid what a 2C makes typically with typically 2C numbers no matter what team he's on.

I'd rather take a chance that a LW can step up, stand at the dots where Panarin went and score 20 on that line.
- HawkintheD

I Agree trading AA makes know sense .Maybe Debrincat can play with him and Kane .I know that is taboo to say around here .But I do believe Debrincat may stick with the big club ,and there is no sense playing him on a lower line .

AA was getting beat clean in the Nashville Series. Draws weren't even close. It was laughable. Hulk and Thor as wingers couldn't have helped.
- Z3Hawk

Which is why i want to see McClement in a hawks jersey

I actually go and back and forth on my opinion on Jagr. He benefited statistically from playing with some really high quality of teammates in Florida in recent years, so he it's hard to say if he'd do well away from them so he'd most likely need to be in the top 6, as you suggest. Would it be too slow a line with both Jagr and Anisimov, though? Can he withstand an entire playoffs if it comes down to it? He's faded a bit sooner every year it seems. On the cheap, it is low risk and it's definitely worth considering. He's better than Doan or Iggy at this point, at the very least.
- L_B_R

That's true he's been playing with a stud Center in Barkov, but the Flames blogger noted today that Barkov's advanced stats were WORSE without Jagr. Jagr isn't going to burn anyone off the rush, but I watched a decent amount of the Panthers with NHL.tv last year and Jagr-Barkov-Huberdeau played keep away in the O-zone A LOT. I'd Imagine Jagr with Kane or Jagr with Kane and Toews could be a very effective scoring line. He would also help the Hawks mediocre PP, in theory.

Jagr-Toews-Kane
Saad-Anisimov-Panik
Sharp-Schmaltz-Hartman
Wingels-Kero/Dauphin-Hayden/Tootoo/Bouma/Hinostroza

Might as well bring in a complete 4th line of Jagr centering Iginla and Doan. Maybe sign Markov too, would provide veteran presence with young D guys. Q would love it.
- RickJ

Sarcasm aside, I think Doan still has a year left of decent hockey in him but Iginla is DONE. Stick a fork in Jarome bc he has got NOTHING left in those 40 yr old legs. Jagr on the other hand can still keep up and you cannot teach the vision, size, and skill combination that Jaromir possesses. He still plays keep away on the cycle in the O-zone. Put Jagr with Saad and Toews, or Toews and Kane, and that could be interesting. If Q trots out a 3rd Defense pair of Campbell and Rosival game 1, I might lose it.

The Ducks signed Rasmussen.
- DarthKane

Good riddance. He's probably a good kid but has limited talent, same for Kero and Hinostozza. Let's move on and see what else we have.

That's true he's been playing with a stud Center in Barkov, but the Flames blogger noted today that Barkov's advanced stats were WORSE without Jagr. Jagr isn't going to burn anyone off the rush, but I watched a decent amount of the Panthers with NHL.tv last year and Jagr-Barkov-Huberdeau played keep away in the O-zone A LOT. I'd Imagine Jagr with Kane or Jagr with Kane and Toews could be a very effective scoring line. He would also help the Hawks mediocre PP, in theory.

Jagr-Toews-Kane
Saad-Anisimov-Panik
Sharp-Schmaltz-Hartman
Wingels-Kero/Dauphin-Hayden/Tootoo/Bouma/Hinostroza
- EnzoD

Well, two things about Barkov's WOWY-Jagr: 1) they're only apart about 100-120 minutes each of the last two years, which combined is like 6-10 games, and 2) when Barkov was apart, he was shifted to playing more in the DZ - a 20-25% zone start swing.

Barkov's micro stats (passing, transition) are impeccable, some of the best in the league, and he has a good balance with Jagr who is a possession maintainer due to his great cycle game, not really a driver. The best balance is usually two drivers and a maintain, ala Jagr-Barkov-Huberdeau or Pan-Anisimov-Kane. Your proposed top line is a better balance than say Jagr-AA-Kane, at least on paper.

Interesting note: Jagr faced relatively high QOC for the Panthers (2nd line), but it was actually lower QOC than any of the top 6 for the Hawks - he was about in line with the Hawks 3rd line when used more offensively (bit under Hossa). It's kind of interesting to see how much higher QOC the 2nd line for the Hawks has seen since Q trusts Anisimov (as AA sees similar QOC home and away). Don't think the difference is necessarily an important distinction, but just throwing all the context out there.

So, in short, I totally get why Jagr could be a good addition, at the right price, but it'd have to be the right line balance.

Sarcasm aside, I think Doan still has a year left of decent hockey in him but Iginla is DONE. Stick a fork in Jarome bc he has got NOTHING left in those 40 yr old legs. Jagr on the other hand can still keep up and you cannot teach the vision, size, and skill combination that Jaromir possesses. He still plays keep away on the cycle in the O-zone. Put Jagr with Saad and Toews, or Toews and Kane, and that could be interesting. If Q trots out a 3rd Defense pair of Campbell and Rosival game 1, I might lose it.
- EnzoD

If Bowman signs any one of those guys I hope they sink below the Avalanche and stay there for 10 years or until he gets fired.

If Bowman signs any one of those guys I hope they sink below the Avalanche and stay there for 10 years or until he gets fired.
- RickJ

I think Bowman should've been fired after failing to give Q 6 NHL defense man in 2016, but I digress. So you are content rolling with Schmaltz, Sharp, Hartman or Panik skating Top 6 minutes this year? As well as Murphy-Kempny and....???....??? as the bottom 4 defense??

I think Bowman should've been fired after failing to give Q 6 NHL defense man in 2016, but I digress. So you are content rolling with Schmaltz, Sharp, Hartman or Panik skating Top 6 minutes this year? As well as Murphy-Kempny and....???....??? as the bottom 4 defense??
- EnzoD

I'm totally content rolling panik as 1RW and schmaltz as 2LW, as the roster stands now. Nobody knows what the lines will be come October, let alone April! I'll leave that to the coach who is paid handsomely to figure that out.
The only thing I can see Hawks adding is D depth, and I won't be surprised that it's oduya or Campbell.
Show me a single team, one, that doesn't have questions marks at any position, yet stanbo should have 23 guys that guarantee cup on July 7th?
Pittsburgh won the cup with a horrendous D as measured last July, just sayin