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Forums :: Blog World :: John Gove: Questions & Concerns Still Remain Involving Tampa's Defense
Author Message
tpd11
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: FL
Joined: 05.22.2008

Jul 7 @ 4:01 PM ET
Get this logic the (frank) outta here. This is (frank)ing Girardi we are discussing and he sucks.
- uf1910

In that case the Sunshine skyway is only 160 feet above the water if you are jumping off. Relax the sky isn't falling. And don't jump. It's a stop gap, Coburn has two left and Cally can go after this year so let the kids mature on ice with some veteran presence. We played well down the stretch, after the Bishop saga ended who wasn't playing very well with the situation of staying or going. We fell short two points with Stammer out almost all year. If he's as bad as you say then I'll be the first to say you're right but let see how it pans out first.
RileyB77
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Canada
Joined: 03.10.2013

Jul 7 @ 4:08 PM ET
In that case the Sunshine skyway is only 160 feet above the water if you are jumping off. Relax the sky isn't falling. And don't jump. It's a stop gap, Coburn has two left and Cally can go after this year so let the kids mature on ice with some veteran presence. We played well down the stretch, after the Bishop saga ended who wasn't playing very well with the situation of staying or going. We fell short two points with Stammer out almost all year. If he's as bad as you say then I'll be the first to say you're right but let see how it pans out first.
- tpd11


thats the thing...the kids wont mature on ice with veterans taking up their spots, playing more meaningful minutes than they do.

i understand why we signed girardi, but the thing is if we developed the D prospects like koekkoek better we wouldnt need him as koekkoek would be top 4 D for 1.5 years by now at the NHL level...

koekkeok and dotchin on 2nd/3rd pairing is fine with me. girardi wil likely be with hedman . i know, dotchin and hedman were good together this doesnt make sense... well welcome to the lightning organization where everything we learned about cooper and yzerman for the first 3 years of their tenure together has been completely turned upside down and thrown out the window
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 7 @ 4:37 PM ET
thats the thing...the kids wont mature on ice with veterans taking up their spots, playing more meaningful minutes than they do.

i understand why we signed girardi, but the thing is if we developed the D prospects like koekkoek better we wouldnt need him as koekkoek would be top 4 D for 1.5 years by now at the NHL level...

koekkeok and dotchin on 2nd/3rd pairing is fine with me. girardi wil likely be with hedman . i know, dotchin and hedman were good together this doesnt make sense... well welcome to the lightning organization where everything we learned about cooper and yzerman for the first 3 years of their tenure together has been completely turned upside down and thrown out the window

- RileyB77


Having to play some young players in situations that they're not ready for at the NHL level is also a surefire way to keep them from maturing. They should some of the heavy lifting for experience but it's better to put them in as favorable of a positionn as possible and let them ease into it. Coaches also sometimes don't trust young players in certain spots so they'll then overplay veterans to compensate.
uf1910
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Excuseville, FL
Joined: 06.29.2011

Jul 7 @ 4:48 PM ET
In that case the Sunshine skyway is only 160 feet above the water if you are jumping off. Relax the sky isn't falling. And don't jump. It's a stop gap, Coburn has two left and Cally can go after this year so let the kids mature on ice with some veteran presence. We played well down the stretch, after the Bishop saga ended who wasn't playing very well with the situation of staying or going. We fell short two points with Stammer out almost all year. If he's as bad as you say then I'll be the first to say you're right but let see how it pans out first.
- tpd11



Please stop...Girardi sucks and will single-handedly cost the Bolts any chance at finishing above last place
uf1910
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Excuseville, FL
Joined: 06.29.2011

Jul 7 @ 4:49 PM ET
thats the thing...the kids wont mature on ice with veterans taking up their spots, playing more meaningful minutes than they do.

i understand why we signed girardi, but the thing is if we developed the D prospects like koekkoek better we wouldnt need him as koekkoek would be top 4 D for 1.5 years by now at the NHL level...

koekkeok and dotchin on 2nd/3rd pairing is fine with me. girardi wil likely be with hedman . i know, dotchin and hedman were good together this doesnt make sense... well welcome to the lightning organization where everything we learned about cooper and yzerman for the first 3 years of their tenure together has been completely turned upside down and thrown out the window

- RileyB77


RHD vs LHD

Oh and Girardi sucks



tpd11
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: FL
Joined: 05.22.2008

Jul 7 @ 5:31 PM ET
Please stop...Girardi sucks and will single-handedly cost the Bolts any chance at finishing above last place
- uf1910

Then become a Panther fan
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 7 @ 6:01 PM ET
Then become a Panther fan
- tpd11


He's being sarcastic.
alwaysjoeking
New York Rangers
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 08.18.2009

Jul 7 @ 6:19 PM ET
maybe by their "own metrics" they realized that dotchin(where the (frank) did he come from) played with hedman and they still won most of their games down the stretch with that pairing. maybe yzerman realizes now that girardi can play with hedman and hedman will still be a beast after last year.

then that leaves the younger guys on the 2nd/3rd pairing getting lots of minutes against half decent opponents.

but don't ask me about the 2 years :S

hedman girardi
stralmen koekkoek//dotchin
coburn // koekkoek//dotchin
sustr (he also only got a 1 year deal, (frank) him)

- RileyB77


Yes but Sustr is Unristricted and his contract was twice the amount as Koekkoek.
CrownedKing
Los Angeles Kings
Location: Garden Grove, CA
Joined: 01.06.2015

Jul 7 @ 7:23 PM ET
I highly doubt Yzerman will screw himself out of the 2nd round pick which is conditional on Sergachev playing fewer than 40 games this year.
- Coburns_Nose

Bingo.
If you have a surplus of bodies, and there's an incentive to not playing one of them, your decision becomes easier.
Leafsandbolts
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Bradenton, Florida, FL
Joined: 08.14.2010

Jul 7 @ 9:33 PM ET
When was the last time, fans have questioned / disliked SY's UFA signing (Girardi), RFA re-signing (Sustr) and wondered who are these guys (Volkov, Lipanov) at the draft? Are we in an alternate universe?

Cloud
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 06.20.2012

Jul 8 @ 10:03 AM ET
When was the last time, fans have questioned / disliked SY's UFA signing (Girardi), RFA re-signing (Sustr) and wondered who are these guys (Volkov, Lipanov) at the draft? Are we in an alternate universe?


- Leafsandbolts


Yeah.. When in doubt before, you could always trust the Yzerplan. It has worked out fine in the past (for most times) but now he is really testing our faith.

I dont mind Volkov or Lipanov drafting. Volkov looks awesome and Lipanov is a homerun or miss kind of prospect. Worth taking a flyer on in the later rounds.

As all other i also feel that the Girardi signing is a a head scratcher. All signs point to him being done. For what he brings we could have signed Polak or some other 3rd pairing guy for lesser money. Clearly the organization has a plan for him, with their "own analytics", but its hard to see what the plan is and if Rags opted to take a massice cap-penalty for buying him out then clearly they didnt see it either.

Everyone in the fanbase seems to hate this move and the discussions is all the same. Thats why i stay away from these discussions, the expectations is so low that even if Girardi have a decent season the majority of fans will be plesantly suprised.

Leafsandbolts
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Bradenton, Florida, FL
Joined: 08.14.2010

Jul 8 @ 10:30 AM ET
Yeah.. When in doubt before, you could always trust the Yzerplan. It has worked out fine in the past (for most times) but now he is really testing our faith.

I dont mind Volkov or Lipanov drafting. Volkov looks awesome and Lipanov is a homerun or miss kind of prospect. Worth taking a flyer on in the later rounds.

As all other i also feel that the Girardi signing is a a head scratcher. All signs point to him being done. For what he brings we could have signed Polak or some other 3rd pairing guy for lesser money. Clearly the organization has a plan for him, with their "own analytics", but its hard to see what the plan is and if Rags opted to take a massice cap-penalty for buying him out then clearly they didnt see it either.

Everyone in the fanbase seems to hate this move and the discussions is all the same. Thats why i stay away from these discussions, the expectations is so low that even if Girardi have a decent season the majority of fans will be plesantly suprised.

- Cloud


Hopefully, someone will ask SY what the team's analytics values versus other analytics. As we enter the hockey dead days of summer we can only wonder.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 8 @ 11:44 AM ET
Yeah.. When in doubt before, you could always trust the Yzerplan. It has worked out fine in the past (for most times) but now he is really testing our faith.

I dont mind Volkov or Lipanov drafting. Volkov looks awesome and Lipanov is a homerun or miss kind of prospect. Worth taking a flyer on in the later rounds.

As all other i also feel that the Girardi signing is a a head scratcher. All signs point to him being done. For what he brings we could have signed Polak or some other 3rd pairing guy for lesser money. Clearly the organization has a plan for him, with their "own analytics", but its hard to see what the plan is and if Rags opted to take a massice cap-penalty for buying him out then clearly they didnt see it either.

Everyone in the fanbase seems to hate this move and the discussions is all the same. Thats why i stay away from these discussions, the expectations is so low that even if Girardi have a decent season the majority of fans will be plesantly suprised.

- Cloud



There is a big difference between paying a player like Girardi 5M versus 3M. If Girardi made 3M on the Rangers, he'd probably still be there.

The reason why so many hate the move is they're relying too much on the noise coming from the analytics and how many NHL "analysts" analyze a player from afar using analytics. The analytics are simply not that good.

Girardi, unless he is carried by his linemates, will not have great puck possession numbers. So if one is going to judge him by those standards, accept that he won't have a "good" year right now, and that pundits will continue to harp in him. In the big picture, that will be irrelevant.

There are different kinds of players in the NHL. Those that help you win and those that just help you not to lose. Girardi falls into the latter category. I guess some players can fall somewhere into the middle.
The best way to defend is simply not to spend time defending. Try to have the puck more than the other team does. Generating shots is the best way to have those good Corsi numbers. Girardi is not going to do that. He's a defender. So if we look at puck possession, the best team has the puck what, 55% of time? So they still have to defend 45% of the time (shot wise). NHL teams still have to spend a lot of time defending in their own end, and on the PK.
Most teams don't have a defense full of defenseman who can drive play and generate offense. Most have a blend of players. Coaches tend to trust experienced veteran players more than younger players with the heavy lifting and in the tougher defensive situations. Teams also know that it's not good to expose young defenseman to too much of that situation unless they're really good out of the gate.
Having a player like Girardi who can defend well, and can take on a lot of the tougher situations icetime role also frees up other players to be put into situations where they can better take advantage of their skills. For many seasons on Chicago, Hjamarlsson took a lot of the heavy lifting which freed up Duncan Keith to play in more offensive situations. So if that is indeed how Girardi is going to be used, then he is not going to have pretty numbers in a lot of the metrics.

I'll end with how this signing should be judged in the future. Not by Girardi's individual numbers but by how the team does. Yzerman is not looking to have a bunch of players with pretty numbers across the board, he's looking to win hockey games and if adding Girardi helps them do that by playing effectively in a role, then Yzerman and Girardi have done their job when it comes to this signing.

Apparently I guess some think that Yzerman doesn't have access to the internet and the analytics websites to clearly see that Girardi is done as a player.

TB fans should keep an open mind and see what happens, and how it works out before condemning this moved based on mediocre analytics.
MR.Hunter
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 06.22.2016

Jul 9 @ 3:13 AM ET
John you said that this leaves tampa's defense a state of a mess? When you have Hedman and stralman in your line up their is no mess! Hell them alone make for a better defense than most,including my team! I get the jest of what your saying, but with the rest of the vets and the kids they'll be fine!,imho, maybe an add come trade deadline time,A heathly Tampa team is a scary good team!
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