Even with Schenn, the Flyers PP had gotten stale. They ended the season close to middle of the pack. Once you factor in the ungodly number of short-handed goals they allowed, they were actually one of the weaker PP units. They're due for a change in structure and Schenn was likely due for a PP regression if he wasn't going to be used in the center of the diamond.

I believe this team has the pieces in place to make the playoffs. They just need to be coached up and utilized better. That's my opinion on the matter.
- PhillySportsGuy

It would also help if Giroux went back to being a PPG player and if Voracek could come closer to his '14-'15 form.

Maybe that's coaching? Maybe not.

The Flyers will lose in the Eastern Conference finals this season. Book it.

It would also help if Giroux went back to being a PPG player and if Voracek could come closer to his '14-'15 form.

Maybe that's coaching? Maybe not.
- johndewar

Giroux was coming off hip surgery. Maybe he wasn't fully recovered from it. This year will be telling. Hopefully he spikes back to the player he was. If we see another season like last year, unfortunately it means he's in decline.

Didn't make it a pissing contest. I replied to a post that said Flyers fans are spoiled. If you agree with that then fine. I don't. Sorry.
- PLindbergh31

I don't agree with that premise.

I also don't understand the pissing contest over which team has been "better" in the last 50 or 25 years.

No I wouldn't say one championship surrounded by years of non competitive hockey would be classified as spoiled. Who has done that?

The Penguins have won 5 Cups in the last 25 years. Yes, their fan base is extremely spoiled.
- PLindbergh31

I wasnt basing it off of anyone.. My point is that while the ultimate goal for every org is to win a championship, years of success without a championship can still be rewarding to fans in its on right.

It would also help if Giroux went back to being a PPG player and if Voracek could come closer to his '14-'15 form.

Maybe that's coaching? Maybe not.
- johndewar

If Giroux was the only one whose even strength numbers dropped last season, I would put more blame on him. The even strength numbers for the entire team dropped substantially, so it's hard to say all of them are just bad at even strength now.

Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the top PK unit cost the team as well. Unless you think having a bottom 5 PK isn't a big deal.

The goalie rotation was also a problem and likely contributed to the sub-par play of both Neuvirth and Mason.

The Flyers have been a perennial playoff bubble team. They don't have the luxury to Richard around with bad players on the PK and benching young, productive players. Their margin for error is razor thin. Bad coaching decisions could be a determining factor. I'm not sure why people dismiss Hak's bad decisions like coaching doesn't matter.

All I know is the Devs got jewed
- Giroux_Is_God

We all convened and decided we'll let you off the hook and take this as a Josh Harris joke

We all convened and decided we'll let you off the hook and take this as a Josh Harris joke
- Mononoke

(frank) Harris

If Giroux was the only one whose even strength numbers dropped last season, I would put more blame on him. The even strength numbers for the entire team dropped substantially, so it's hard to say all of them are just bad at even strength now.

Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the top PK unit cost the team as well. Unless you think having a bottom 5 PK isn't a big deal.

The goalie rotation was also a problem and likely contributed to the sub-par play of both Neuvirth and Mason.

The Flyers have been a perennial playoff bubble team. They don't have the luxury to Richard around with bad players on the PK and benching young, productive players. Their margin for error is razor thin. Bad coaching decisions could be a determining factor. I'm not sure why people dismiss Hak's bad decisions like coaching doesn't matter.
- PhillySportsGuy

A PK unit consists of 4 skaters and goaltender. I think it's fair to say the PK was subpar and needs to be better and that it hurt the Flyers. It's simply poor analysis to place all of the blame on Bellemare and Vandevelde.
Scratching young players serves a purpose and is a tool that many coaches use. The actual luxury the Flyers don't have is to let young players continue to make certain mistakes and not correcting them, and to know that there are no consequences to that as they develop as NHL players.
Giroux is the Flyers top player and he is paid extremely well. He deserves a large chunk of the criticism in terms of the teams 5 on 5 play. He shouldn't get a pass or a lessened amount of criticism in any way. That all comes with the territory of having the contract and the responsibility he has.

That is a good point. We were subjected to 5 years of that.
I know the prospect pool is being built up, but there has to be progress made at the NHL level soon. In year one of Hextall's tenure they were a playoff bubble team, this is year 4 now and they are in the same boat. I don't see anything changing next year either with this goaltending tandem that is in place.
- PLindbergh31

Not the same boat. Prospect pool is way better and they have wiggled out of cap hell. The team is going to be younger with much more up side. Wake up and smell the coffee. We are moving the right direction.

What is the standard by which Hakstol using the roster properly will be measured?

If like last year, Giroux score 18 points at 5 on 5 and Voracek has a GF% of 37 and they miss the playoffs again, how is that an indictment on Hakstol? Making that statement now is ridiculously premature.
- MJL

One measuring stick of a coach is getting your best players to play well.

Wait a minute... The Penguins have missed the playoffs 4 times since 1990. And have won 5 Cups during that period. How do you figure they did a "whole lot of sucking"?

During the same period of time the Flyers have missed the playoffs 8 times and won zero Cups.
- PLindbergh31

My point is they were terrible leading up to getting Mario and Jagr missing the playoffs from 82-83 thru 87-88. in that time frame they drafted:

1984 - 1
1985 - 2
1986 - 4
1987 - 5
1988 - 4
1989 - 16
1990 - 5

Getting mario was a franchise changer.

Leading up to getting Malkin and Crosby, 2 more franchise changing players, they missed the playoffs 01-02 to 05-06 and getting the below:

2002 - 5
2003 - 1
2004 - 2
2005 - 1
2006 - 2

Lets be real, outside of the season that we like to say didn't happen, the Flyers never draft that high and the one year they did, they got a good player in JVR but no franchise player.

The only problem is the Flyers keep missing at crucial moments in NHL draft history. They landed JvR instead of the generational player Kane. Obviously the jury is still out on Nolan Patrick but they're 1 year removed from landing Laine - and 2 years removed from landing Eichel - both of which could indeed, turn out to be generational players.
- Pixote Andolini

I don't think Laine or Kane or even Eichel are generational players. Great players, or franchise players, sure. to be generational guys are people like Mario, Gretzky, Crosby and McDavid but that's my view.

Didn't make it a pissing contest. I replied to a post that said Flyers fans are spoiled. If you agree with that then fine. I don't. Sorry.
- PLindbergh31

spoiled in the sense that the team always went all in. didn't accept tanking. always was willing to throw money out there and trade away picks because they knew they had deep pockets. not spoiled in the sense of the end results of how many cups have ween won.

spoiled in the sense that the team always went all in. didn't accept tanking. always was willing to throw money out there and trade away picks because they knew they had deep pockets. not spoiled in the sense of the end results of how many cups have ween won.
- nastyflyergirl

Yep we are spoiled that our ownership didn't want to put a poor product on the ice if they could do anything about it. Even in the cap world they spend almost to the max to make the team the best they believe it can be. Did we have bumps, sure most teams do. There have been 29 teams that have have had to taste the defeat of not winning the cup each year for the last how many years. I'd say us Flyers fans have waited more time most years to taste that defeat than all but a handful of teams in the league. I'll take the hand we've been dealt and look forward to seeing the future.

One measuring stick of a coach is getting your best players to play well.
- fls13

For certain a coaches job is to get the team play well. Pertaining to using the roster correctly, if players aren't playing well does that automatically mean the coach is not using the roster correctly?

I don't think Laine or Kane or even Eichel are generational players. Great players, or franchise players, sure. to be generational guys are people like Mario, Gretzky, Crosby and McDavid but that's my view.
- nastyflyergirl

I agree with you.

My point is they were terrible leading up to getting Mario and Jagr missing the playoffs from 82-83 thru 87-88. in that time frame they drafted:

1984 - 1
1985 - 2
1986 - 4
1987 - 5
1988 - 4
1989 - 16
1990 - 5

Getting mario was a franchise changer.

Leading up to getting Malkin and Crosby, 2 more franchise changing players, they missed the playoffs 01-02 to 05-06 and getting the below:

2002 - 5
2003 - 1
2004 - 2
2005 - 1
2006 - 2

Lets be real, outside of the season that we like to say didn't happen, the Flyers never draft that high and the one year they did, they got a good player in JVR but no franchise player.
- nastyflyergirl

They were bad prior to getting Mario. Agreed. Also a small market club that did not have the financial ability to go out and sign top free agents.
They landed Mario and things took off from there. It shouldn't be a surprise that they were bad again for a bit after Mario retired before Crosby arrived. Again small market.

I get that the Flyers spent max money every year. If you have as much to spend as the Flyers did and you weren't able to get over the hump it's not just bad luck. There was a lot of incompetent GM work by Clarke, and Holmgren.

Throwing up the tanking stuff when it comes to franchises that are more successful is nothing but sour grapes.

For certain a coaches job is to get the team play well. Pertaining to using the roster correctly, if players aren't playing well does that automatically mean the coach is not using the roster correctly?
- MJL

In Hakstol's case, I don't think he's had a lot to work with so it's hard to say with certainty but it's certainly possible.

In Hakstol's case, I don't think he's had a lot to work with so it's hard to say with certainty but it's certainly possible.
- fls13

Well said. Unfortunately some just want to blame Hakstol for everything.

Well said. Unfortunately some just want to blame Hakstol for everything.
- MJL

Things don't work out blame the coach. After enough blame, fire said coach.

It's the pro sports mantra.

They were bad prior to getting Mario. Agreed. Also a small market club that did not have the financial ability to go out and sign top free agents.
They landed Mario and things took off from there. It shouldn't be a surprise that they were bad again for a bit after Mario retired before Crosby arrived. Again small market.

I get that the Flyers spent max money every year. If you have as much to spend as the Flyers did and you weren't able to get over the hump it's not just bad luck. There was a lot of incompetent GM work by Clarke, and Holmgren.

Throwing up the tanking stuff when it comes to franchises that are more successful is nothing but sour grapes.
- PLindbergh31

its not sour grapes at all. i am simply pointing out the facts of how bad they were which led to the ability to get great and generational talents. thats a fact. the Flyers organization never sat idle. even after Clarke had checked out and Holmgren took over, they had the one bad year and turned it around by throwing money out there in getting Briere, Hartnell and Timonen. I'm not putting down the Penguins, I am simply pointing out that they accepted being terrible and got those players