There are 6 million reasons x 3 why firing Q would be a very slow process. And Q should be nowhere near the overheated point that Dave Tippet reached in frustration with the amateurs in Arizona.

Q might be pissed about losing Hammer, but what if Bowman and the rest of the management group decided that they wanted to move him out before his body breaks down completely and they turn out to be correct? We"ll see how good he plays pinned in his own zone most of the night with a bunch of young forwards not equipped to help.

And furthermore, maybe Bowman has now made it very clear to Q about who reports to who - now get on with coaching mister.
- RickJ

Wirtz has plenty of money regardless of how poor and cash strapped he wants to paint that picture every November to Crains to justify the routine ticket increases, etc.

Hammer like panarin was moved mainly for money....which I get. If the short term goal is to win a cup.....I still think Hammer > AA in regards to overall importance of that happening........and you clear out cap room......that's why I contend this is more of a reshuffling/rebuild on the fly if you look at the overall team as of now.......and even trading kruger and even AA, you create two more holes and doubtful you can replace those with the cap space created.........

Hossa=no replacement
Panarin=Saad.......push
Hammer=Murphy and depth center......Hammer > Murphy TODAY....next year, 2019? See how it plays out.....
Darling=Karlsson.....Darling ?Karlsson......Darling was arguably the top backup in the league, with Raanta being a close 2nd.

There are 6 million reasons x 3 why firing Q would be a very slow process. And Q should be nowhere near the overheated point that Dave Tippet reached in frustration with the amateurs in Arizona.

Q might be pissed about losing Hammer, but what if Bowman and the rest of the management group decided that they wanted to move him out before his body breaks down completely and they turn out to be correct? We"ll see how good he plays pinned in his own zone most of the night with a bunch of young forwards not equipped to help.

And furthermore, maybe Bowman has now made it very clear to Q about who reports to who - now get on with coaching mister.
- RickJ

This + infinity.

At first, I too just like everyone else was disappointed at the haul that Stan received for a valuable, established top-4 d-man in Hammer. But now, the more I think about it, the more at peace I am with the deal.

Losing Hammer sucks for a plethora of reasons, but I wonder if Stan and Co. were able to time the market on him MUCH better/quicker than they did with the Sharp deal.

I haven't looked at the underlying advanced analytics, but I wonder what the numbers would suggest if Hammer didn't benefit by having so much high-end talent around him. He's played with Keith, Campbell, and Oduya while he's been here (at the time the latter two were consensus top-4 d-men, not the players they were this past season). If Hammer doesn't play with OEL (but their young Russian kid does), I wonder what kind of an impact he will make on that defense. Logic would dictate that he's not going to be as good as he was here. Not to mention, as many have stated, that his body has suffered a lot of wear and tear over the years, and he's going to be due for a new contract soon. If there was ever a time to move him, it was now, when there is a demand for top-4 d-men across the league.

EDIT: If Q really did throw a fit about Hammer being moved, I wonder why he didn't use Hammer in the baby-sitter role at all this season. It was Seabrook for most of the season, and Campbell at times as well. Hammer always had a steady, high-end partner with him for as long as he's been up with the team. Kind of curious. You would think that if Q truly "loved" Hammer, he would trust him a lot more and would use him as a partner with the likes of Kempny, considering Hammer is more of a defensive, stay-at-home type who has the ability to cover for mistakes by his partner. I think this might just be smoke blown by the media to try to stir a non-existent story. If anything, I think Q was more upset about Stan potentially not letting Q have a say on the deals, rather than what deals actually transpired.

There are 6 million reasons x 3 why firing Q would be a very slow process. And Q should be nowhere near the overheated point that Dave Tippet reached in frustration with the amateurs in Arizona.

Q might be pissed about losing Hammer, but what if Bowman and the rest of the management group decided that they wanted to move him out before his body breaks down completely and they turn out to be correct? We"ll see how good he plays pinned in his own zone most of the night with a bunch of young forwards not equipped to help.

And furthermore, maybe Bowman has now made it very clear to Q about who reports to who - now get on with coaching mister.
- RickJ

If Coyoyes bring in the right coach and young players buy in, then it would be wonderful to see hammer play with OEL or Chychrin. I see the latter dman valuable as the sort of new nhl dman whose strengths are what he can do well

Wirtz has plenty of money regardless of how poor and cash strapped he wants to paint that picture every November to Crains to justify the routine ticket increases, etc.

Hammer like panarin was moved mainly for money....which I get. If the short term goal is to win a cup.....I still think Hammer > AA in regards to overall importance of that happening........and you clear out cap room......that's why I contend this is more of a reshuffling/rebuild on the fly if you look at the overall team as of now.......and even trading kruger and even AA, you create two more holes and doubtful you can replace those with the cap space created.........

Hossa=no replacement
Panarin=Saad.......push
Hammer=Murphy and depth center......Hammer > Murphy TODAY....next year, 2019? See how it plays out.....
Darling=Karlsson.....Darling ?Karlsson......Darling was arguably the top backup in the league, with Raanta being a close 2nd.
- SteveRain

I don't think Hammer was moved for money primarily, more like cost certainty with a similar salary deal in place for longer term with a much younger Murphy.

And as much as I like and respect Hammer, his last 2 seasons on the ice haven't been very good - plain and simple.

Wirtz has plenty of money regardless of how poor and cash strapped he wants to paint that picture every November to Crains to justify the routine ticket increases, etc.

Hammer like panarin was moved mainly for money....which I get. If the short term goal is to win a cup.....I still think Hammer > AA in regards to overall importance of that happening........and you clear out cap room......that's why I contend this is more of a reshuffling/rebuild on the fly if you look at the overall team as of now.......and even trading kruger and even AA, you create two more holes and doubtful you can replace those with the cap space created.........

Hossa=no replacement
Panarin=Saad.......push
Hammer=Murphy and depth center......Hammer > Murphy TODAY....next year, 2019? See how it plays out.....
Darling=Karlsson.....Darling ?Karlsson......Darling was arguably the top backup in the league, with Raanta being a close 2nd.
- SteveRain

Also:
It may turn out refreshing to see a new dman with realistic offensive game each team needs. We have Keith and Seabrook masquerading as such. Anyone have those Keith shots on net pictures availabe.

If Coyoyes bring in the right coach and young players buy in, then it would be wonderful to see hammer play with OEL or Chychrin. I see the latter dman valuable as the sort of new nhl dman whose strengths are what he can do well
- jhawk59

Do the Coyotes have a goalie anymore?

I wouldn't rely on those clowns in Arizona to do anything right.

I don't think Hammer was moved for money primarily, more like cost certainty with a similar salary deal in place for longer term with a much younger Murphy.

And as much as I like and respect Hammer, his last 2 seasons on the ice haven't been very good - plain and simple.
- RickJ

I don't disagree....Hammer wasn't his best.....either was 2 and 7. THat also can't be ignored and you now need both of those guys to bounce back in a huge way and lose a more veteran safety net in Hammer.

But to play Devils advocate to your original post about Hammer being pinned in his own end like Murphy, wouldn't Hammer get a pass like many or giving Murphy for playing on such a horrid team?

Do the Coyotes have a goalie anymore?

I wouldn't rely on those clowns in Arizona to do anything right.
- RickJ

Raanta

This + infinity.

At first, I too just like everyone else was disappointed at the haul that Stan received for a valuable, established top-4 d-man in Hammer. But now, the more I think about it, the more at peace I am with the deal.

Losing Hammer sucks for a plethora of reasons, but I wonder if Stan and Co. were able to time the market on him MUCH better/quicker than they did with the Sharp deal.

I haven't looked at the underlying advanced analytics, but I wonder what the numbers would suggest if Hammer didn't benefit by having so much high-end talent around him. He's played with Keith, Campbell, and Oduya while he's been here (at the time the latter two were consensus top-4 d-men, not the players they were this past season). If Hammer doesn't play with OEL (but their young Russian kid does), I wonder what kind of an impact he will make on that defense. Logic would dictate that he's not going to be as good as he was here. Not to mention, as many have stated, that his body has suffered a lot of wear and tear over the years, and he's going to be due for a new contract soon. If there was ever a time to move him, it was now, when there is a demand for top-4 d-men across the league.
- TommyHawk

This was the first season Hjammer was ever under 50% CF, but he also faced his highest QOC with the same deep DZS and was barely under.

Hjammer early on in his career probably relied on his partner a bit, but he's been a positive impact players for years on everyone he plays with pretty much, d-men and forwards, excluding these past two years where he was negative on Keith. Hjammer did decline a bit but that pairing also just wasn't as balanced as it looks on paper. Possibly due to overworking them as a pair as the other pairings got lighter loads and the forward core was not as strong defensively or with shot metric possession as in the past. I don't much buy the wear/tear thing since this was the first season in 5 years he didn't play pretty much every game, minus some sitting at the end for playoff rest (and imo they honestly kept him out a little longer just to be safe after building up a big lead in the conference). He's been extremely durable.

It's hard to say how he'll perform in Arizona - that team, even with the recent pick ups, doesn't look to be a possession team so Hjammer may be overwhelmed with more responsibility. He and OEL have similar defensive impacts overall, so splitting them up may bring more balance to their defense. Lot of questions down there.

That said, I'm a bit excited to see what Murphy brings to the table. 24 seems to be right about when d-men come into their own. Possibly a little development delay due to being in Arizona but potential.

I'm not hyped about the Alzner rumors (he's an okay #4 in certain situations, likely too expensive though) or even some that think giving Girardi a bottom pair role would be good (gross). Still fingers crossed for the low risk/solid reward pick up of a Merrill type.

Also:
It may turn out refreshing to see a new dman with realistic offensive game each team needs. We have Keith and Seabrook masquerading as such. Anyone have those Keith shots on net pictures availabe.
- jhawk59

Duncan Keith shouldn't be anywhere near a top unit PP.

Toe drag the blue line....wait......pump....wait.......and then shoot wide and out of the zone OR into a forward's shin pads. No opposing player is ever afraid to step in front of that pea shooter.

Do the Coyotes have a goalie anymore?

I wouldn't rely on those clowns in Arizona to do anything right.
- RickJ

They have all this young talent.

They have a new owner successful resume in business world.

But successful hockey management might escape him or is beyond his grasp. Hmm. Is Doan going to wind up in management? Is the owner going to muddy the water. Is the young GM on the right track? Maybe ....but now with that goaltenders situation, maybe they need columnist Tanner to come riding in on a white horse!

Said it earlier and still think the same,

Gagner on your third line you love, if he is top 6 regularly it is a little iffy depth IMO. Filling in for injuries great but please not for a regular. Third line in 2015 was Sharp, Vermette, and Teuvo. Gagner would be a great fit in that mold.

I thought I was about the only one on here who thought Rasmussen was a useful player.
- Al

Useful yes...but still just a guy.

Good luck to him.

I thought I was about the only one on here who thought Rasmussen was a useful player.
- Al

That's like being the tallest smurf.

Yep I believe Q day's are numbered ,and Dineen or Ulf will be running the show sooner then later . Every coach has a shelf life ,and Q expiry date may have been last spring ..
- oldduffman

$6MM per for each of the next 3 years.

Neither Rocky nor Joel is going to want to give that up.

The Coach may be here for longer than anyone thinks.

Wirtz has plenty of money regardless of how poor and cash strapped he wants to paint that picture every November to Crains to justify the routine ticket increases, etc.

Hammer like panarin was moved mainly for money....which I get. If the short term goal is to win a cup.....I still think Hammer > AA in regards to overall importance of that happening........and you clear out cap room......that's why I contend this is more of a reshuffling/rebuild on the fly if you look at the overall team as of now.......and even trading kruger and even AA, you create two more holes and doubtful you can replace those with the cap space created.........

Hossa=no replacement
Panarin=Saad.......push
Hammer=Murphy and depth center......Hammer > Murphy TODAY....next year, 2019? See how it plays out.....
Darling=Karlsson.....Darling ?Karlsson......Darling was arguably the top backup in the league, with Raanta being a close 2nd.
- SteveRain

Sorry, that is wrong. Saad >> Panarin (in terms of playing Q's system)

This + infinity.

At first, I too just like everyone else was disappointed at the haul that Stan received for a valuable, established top-4 d-man in Hammer. But now, the more I think about it, the more at peace I am with the deal.

Losing Hammer sucks for a plethora of reasons, but I wonder if Stan and Co. were able to time the market on him MUCH better/quicker than they did with the Sharp deal.

I haven't looked at the underlying advanced analytics, but I wonder what the numbers would suggest if Hammer didn't benefit by having so much high-end talent around him. He's played with Keith, Campbell, and Oduya while he's been here (at the time the latter two were consensus top-4 d-men, not the players they were this past season). If Hammer doesn't play with OEL (but their young Russian kid does), I wonder what kind of an impact he will make on that defense. Logic would dictate that he's not going to be as good as he was here. Not to mention, as many have stated, that his body has suffered a lot of wear and tear over the years, and he's going to be due for a new contract soon. If there was ever a time to move him, it was now, when there is a demand for top-4 d-men across the league.

EDIT: If Q really did throw a fit about Hammer being moved, I wonder why he didn't use Hammer in the baby-sitter role at all this season. It was Seabrook for most of the season, and Campbell at times as well. Hammer always had a steady, high-end partner with him for as long as he's been up with the team. Kind of curious. You would think that if Q truly "loved" Hammer, he would trust him a lot more and would use him as a partner with the likes of Kempny, considering Hammer is more of a defensive, stay-at-home type who has the ability to cover for mistakes by his partner. I think this might just be smoke blown by the media to try to stir a non-existent story. If anything, I think Q was more upset about Stan potentially not letting Q have a say on the deals, rather than what deals actually transpired.
- TommyHawk

Very important point.......

This + infinity.

At first, I too just like everyone else was disappointed at the haul that Stan received for a valuable, established top-4 d-man in Hammer. But now, the more I think about it, the more at peace I am with the deal.

Losing Hammer sucks for a plethora of reasons, but I wonder if Stan and Co. were able to time the market on him MUCH better/quicker than they did with the Sharp deal.

I haven't looked at the underlying advanced analytics, but I wonder what the numbers would suggest if Hammer didn't benefit by having so much high-end talent around him. He's played with Keith, Campbell, and Oduya while he's been here (at the time the latter two were consensus top-4 d-men, not the players they were this past season). If Hammer doesn't play with OEL (but their young Russian kid does), I wonder what kind of an impact he will make on that defense. Logic would dictate that he's not going to be as good as he was here. Not to mention, as many have stated, that his body has suffered a lot of wear and tear over the years, and he's going to be due for a new contract soon. If there was ever a time to move him, it was now, when there is a demand for top-4 d-men across the league.

EDIT: If Q really did throw a fit about Hammer being moved, I wonder why he didn't use Hammer in the baby-sitter role at all this season. It was Seabrook for most of the season, and Campbell at times as well. Hammer always had a steady, high-end partner with him for as long as he's been up with the team. Kind of curious. You would think that if Q truly "loved" Hammer, he would trust him a lot more and would use him as a partner with the likes of Kempny, considering Hammer is more of a defensive, stay-at-home type who has the ability to cover for mistakes by his partner. I think this might just be smoke blown by the media to try to stir a non-existent story. If anything, I think Q was more upset about Stan potentially not letting Q have a say on the deals, rather than what deals actually transpired.
- TommyHawk

Very important point.......

Very important point.......
- powerenforcer

Likely the most important point. Best to move a guy a year too early rather than a year too late.

I watched Gagner a lot last year and if the price is right I would do it.
Thought Moose would have fit well with Saad on the Penalty Kill and he will get 1-1.5m somewhere.Good 4th liner.

Could see Campbell back at 1 million to play here and there.

EKane trade involving AA may come as 3 Way through Vegas or Montreal.

I watched Gagner a lot last year and if the price is right I would do it.
Thought Moose would have fit well with Saad on the Penalty Kill and he will get 1-1.5m somewhere.Good 4th liner.

Could see Campbell back at 1 million to play here and there.

EKane trade involving AA may come as 3 Way through Vegas or Montreal.
- Colbyboy

By the sounds of it with Moose (looked like they were going to QO him & then ended up not), that Hawks knew they had to upgrade their bottom six and the fact that they can talk to UFAs now, they found someone better for the same price that is interesting in joining CHI.

I liked the Moose, but he was a candidate to not be resigned considering how slow the dude is. If the Hawks are going to have a slower guy in the lineup, I think they'll have other qualities, ie. super physical and/or 50%+ at the dot.

Nah......just add the "r".......he's Kaner to everbody anyway.
- Hawkytalk

Not a fan of having a 'P. Kane' or 'Kaner'. Should keep it Kane and make Evanader put the E on. I'm sure it'll go over well with his humble attitude.

This was the first season Hjammer was ever under 50% CF, but he also faced his highest QOC with the same deep DZS and was barely under.

Hjammer early on in his career probably relied on his partner a bit, but he's been a positive impact players for years on everyone he plays with pretty much, d-men and forwards, excluding these past two years where he was negative on Keith. Hjammer did decline a bit but that pairing also just wasn't as balanced as it looks on paper. Possibly due to overworking them as a pair as the other pairings got lighter loads and the forward core was not as strong defensively or with shot metric possession as in the past. I don't much buy the wear/tear thing since this was the first season in 5 years he didn't play pretty much every game, minus some sitting at the end for playoff rest (and imo they honestly kept him out a little longer just to be safe after building up a big lead in the conference). He's been extremely durable.

It's hard to say how he'll perform in Arizona - that team, even with the recent pick ups, doesn't look to be a possession team so Hjammer may be overwhelmed with more responsibility. He and OEL have similar defensive impacts overall, so splitting them up may bring more balance to their defense. Lot of questions down there.

That said, I'm a bit excited to see what Murphy brings to the table. 24 seems to be right about when d-men come into their own. Possibly a little development delay due to being in Arizona but potential.

I'm not hyped about the Alzner rumors (he's an okay #4 in certain situations, likely too expensive though) or even some that think giving Girardi a bottom pair role would be good (gross). Still fingers crossed for the low risk/solid reward pick up of a Merrill type.
- L_B_R

2-7- and 4 have regressed since they won the last Cup. Hammer's best days were with Oduya imo.

He's still a top 20 dman most likely but they all needed to better the past 2 seasons and there are reasons and guesses why that wasn't so...

This gets old, please be better informed.

1 Cup, yes
2 Cups part of the equation
3 - smaller part

And while your doing your research name a team who's composition in the salary cap era was 100% of his doing. I will give you a hint - only 1 GM comes close - Ken Holland, and even he had players from the previous GM.
- riozzo

Also, while we are on the being completely fair trust fall here, Mike Smith could be argued to be just as or slightly below importance for the Hawks first Cup team as Dale was.

2001 - Ruutu - flipped for Ladd
2001 - C. Anderson (wasn't a factor with the Hawks, but a great pick)
2002 - Duncan Keith
2002 - James Wisniewski (solid pick until his knees were blown out)
2002 - Adam Burish
2003 - Brent Seabrook
2003 - Corey Crawford
2003 - Dustin Byfuglien