Pierre LeBrun‏Verified account @PierreVLeBrun now43 seconds ago

Just a reminder, the Hawks can't put Hossa on LTI until Day 2 of the regular season, have to carry him on the cap opening day (con't)...
- hawkshossa81

Day 1 actually Pierre.

Pierre LeBrun‏
Verified account
 @PierreVLeBrun Sure, once they put him on LTI in October they gave replace his $5.275-million salary, but where do you find that player in October? Plus there's the fact that having a player on LTI right from the start of the season means Hawks won't accrue any cap space as year goes on which is a serious impediment come the trade deadline, not being able to accrue any cap savings...Again, the system isn't set up for a team to just go out and replace that salary right away this summer. Doesn't work that way. No question it will affect what the Hawks had thought of doing the next week or two on the trade market in my mind

Here's the rest of the tweet

Pierre LeBrun‏Verified account @PierreVLeBrun now15 seconds ago

which is a serious impediment come the trade deadline, not being able to accrue any cap savings...
- hawkshossa81

But - if LeBrun is right - Hawks have to be compliant before say 1 (including Hossa's cap hit) but on day 2, they can LTIR him - and now they're $4.5 under, including his replacement.

They don't necessarily have to accrue cap savings thru the TDL.

But - if LeBrun is right - Hawks have to be compliant before say 1 (including Hossa's cap hit) but on day 2, they can LTIR him - and now they're $4.5 under, including his replacement.

They don't necessarily have to accrue cap savings thru the TDL.
- StLBravesFan

In the most simplistic terms possible, does this allow the Hawks to have $5.5mil in cap space during the Summer, or no? Anyone??

It doesn't look right, so I am sure that they anticipated the questions.

It is one thing to question, another thing to just say they are cheating the cap. It looks bad on the surface because of the timing with his contract going down to $1M/yr.

I am not saying that the Hawks are cheating the cap. I just hope that this is actually real if they are going to be able to put him on LTIR.
- carcus

I think you need to think this thru, and when you do you'll rejoice...

...because the Hawks are a worse team without Marian Hossa, even at 38.

There is simply no chance that Hossa would want his career to end in this way, and there's no way the Hawks organization would/or could "force" Hossa to end his career this way. In addition, the supposed cap savings doesn't really allow the Hawks to do much this summer since Hossa can't go on LTIR until the season starts, so how exactly would the Hawks replace a player of Hossa's pedigree assuming that timeline?

Perhaps I'm simply unaware of some of the details, but as I see it the Hawks are less of club today as a result of this announcement.

https://s-media-cache-ak0...85a3b894ee571b2d46d18.jpg

In the most simplistic terms possible, does this allow the Hawks to have $5.5mil in cap space during the Summer, or no? Anyone??
- EnzoD

All I know is all clubs can exceed the cap by as much as 10% for the summer, but must be compliant by opening night.

All I know is all clubs can exceed the cap by as much as 10% for the summer, but must be compliant by opening night.
- ArlingtonRob

By that logic, they can acquire someone this summer to fill that voided $5.5mil cap hit as 10% of the $75mil cap hit would be allowed overage of $7.5mil. Right?? Wrong??

I'm not sure Pierre is right on that one:

https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq
- walleyeb1

Pretty sure he is basically right (except day 1, not day 2).

Hawks have to be cap compliant at the start of the season without Hossa on LTIR. They then, 30 seconds after the official start of the season on Oct. 4 or whenever can put him on LTIR and replace use that money to replace him. For those interested, it's covered on page 290 of the CBA.
http://cdn.agilitycms.com...DF/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

But functionally, this isn't that difficult. They technically just "send down" every player who is waiver exempt for the start of the season, LTIR Hossa, then "recall" them all.

For some reason, I feel like all this is only for this year, however. In the future, I think if you end the season/playoffs on the LTIR, you start the next year automatically on and the team doesn't have to be under salary cap at the start of the year, your exemption is still in place. But I don't see anything one way or another about that in the CBA, and can't remember where I heard it.

In the most simplistic terms possible, does this allow the Hawks to have $5.5mil in cap space during the Summer, or no? Anyone??
- EnzoD

Not sure this is simple but I think it means yes:

When a player has an injury of which they are expected to miss 10 games and 24 days, the team can place them on long term injured reserve (LTIR) to receive cap relief.

When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit technically remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did. It also does not provide the club with additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates below the salary cap. Instead, LTIR provides relief if the club's averaged club salary, or payroll, begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of relief that the club receives is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. There are two formulas that are used to determine the LTIR relief, the first formula, the basic formula, can be used during the season and during the off-season. The second formula, the training-camp formula, can be used during the off-season.

Basic Formula
This formula is used throughout the season and during the off-season
Amount team can exceed the cap = Cap hit of LTIR player - Amount of cap space available

Training-Camp Formula
This formula can only be used during the off-season
Amount team can exceed the cap = Team cap hit - season salary cap

Basic Formula Example
The league upper limit is $69M. A team has an averaged club salary of $68M and a player with a cap hit of $5M becomes injured and the team places him on LTIR. The team is now permitted to spend up to a new limit of $73M:
Cap hit of LTIR player is $5M
Amount of cap space available to team = $69M - $68M = $1M
Amount team can exceed the cap = $5M - $1M = $4M
New limit = $69M + $4M = $73M
To add to this example, if the team were to recall a player from the AHL, with a cap hit of $950k, the teams would instead be permitted to spend up to a new limit of $73.95M:
Cap hit of LTIR player is $5M
Amount of cap space available to team = $69M - $68.95M = $0.05M
Amount team can exceed the cap = $5M - $0.05M = $4.95M
New limit = $69M + $4.95M = $73.95M
For this reason, when a player is activated onto LTIR, one day recalls are relatively common as they can be used to maximize the cap relief from an LTIR player.

Training-Camp Formula Example
The league upper limit is $69M. A team has an averaged club salary of $71M and a player with a cap hit of $5M becomes injured and the team places him on LTIR. The team is now permitted to spend up to a new limit of $71M:
Team cap hit = $71M
Season salary cap = $69M
Amount team can exceed the cap = $71 - $69M = $2M
New limit = $69M + $2M = $71M
To add to this example, if the team were to recall two players from the AHL, one with a cap hit of $950k and the other $650k, the teams would instead be permitted to spend up to a new limit of $72.6M:
Team cap hit = $72.6M
Season salary cap = $69M
Amount team can exceed the cap = $72.6 - $69M = $3.6M
New limit = $69M + $4.95M = $72.6M
Again, for this reason, when a player is activated onto LTIR, one day recalls are relatively common as they can be used to maximize the cap relief from an LTIR player.

I think you need to think this thru, and when you do you'll rejoice...

...because the Hawks are a worse team without Marian Hossa, even at 38.

There is simply no chance that Hossa would want his career to end in this way, and there's no way the Hawks organization would/or could "force" Hossa to end his career this way. In addition, the supposed cap savings doesn't really allow the Hawks to do much this summer since Hossa can't go on LTIR until the season starts, so how exactly would the Hawks replace a player of Hossa's pedigree assuming that timeline?

Perhaps I'm simply unaware of some of the details, but as I see it the Hawks are less of club today as a result of this announcement.
- ArlingtonRob

I agree that they are less of a team without Hossa.

To me, the question that arises is does he just want to retire because he doesn't want to put his body through another season at 38/39 years old, especially for his low salary now, but he can't officially retire or else the Hawks get a big cap hit?

If he wanted to play and could, I have no doubts that the Hawks want him there.

Chris Johnston‏Verified account @reporterchris 2h2 hours ago

Bill Daly says the NHL still has to evaluate whether Marian Hossa can be placed on LTIR next season. No timetable for that decision.

-----

Evaluate?!? Fine...you do that.

Legit health issue that he's been fighting for several years reaches a point where the treatment could kill him. Only recourse is to stop wearing the equipment...therefore to stop playing the game.

Should take about 5 minutes to "evaluate".

While you're at it Bill, what's you opinion again regarding clubs trading LTIR players that will never lace 'em up again...simply for cap relief?

KMA

Pretty sure he is basically right (except day 1, not day 2).

Hawks have to be cap compliant at the start of the season without Hossa on LTIR. They then, 30 seconds after the official start of the season on Oct. 4 or whenever can put him on LTIR and replace use that money to replace him. For those interested, it's covered on page 290 of the CBA.
http://cdn.agilitycms.com...DF/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

But functionally, this isn't that difficult. They technically just "send down" every player who is waiver eligible for the start of the season, LTIR Hossa, then "recall" them all.

For some reason, I feel like all this is only for this year, however. In the future, I think if you end the season/playoffs on the LTIR, you start the next year automatically on and the team doesn't have to be under salary cap at the start of the year, your exemption is still in place. But I don't see anything one way or another about that in the CBA, and can't remember where I heard it.
- Antilles

I believe that all players on your roster on opening day count every year. They are on LTIR in the offseason, keeping them from being bought out/etc, but have to be re-placed on LTIR on day one of each season.

And as @DarrenDreger reported earlier, WPG also did a deal with VGK to shelter Enstrom from selection. That's 9th of many deals we know of.

@PierreVLeBrun
FYI regarding Vegas making Alexei Emelin its pick from Montreal, that's a clean transaction; Habs didn't have to entice VGK with a pick

How, Sway?

Habs really out here building themselves a Red Machine.

I agree that they are less of a team without Hossa.

To me, the question that arises is does he just want to retire because he doesn't want to put his body through another season at 38/39 years old, especially for his low salary now, but he can't officially retire or else the Hawks get a big cap hit?

If he wanted to play and could, I have no doubts that the Hawks want him there.
- carcus

So you're just playing the cynic...fine.

But to think that the great Marian Hossa... and he is great...an honorable man with pride would want to end his career by announcing that he has an awful skin condition...

...strikes me as absurd.

As a personal aside...

I hate the hard cap, and have been hoping for some sort of luxury tax added to the CBA. But the rules are the rules and the Hawks are doing nothing wrong.

I also think the cap recapture penalty imposed by the new CBA is a joke. If the long term deals were approved they shouldn't be penalizing teams after the fact.

I believe that all players on your roster on opening day count every year. They are on LTIR in the offseason, keeping them from being bought out/etc, but have to be re-placed on LTIR on day one of each season.
- carcus

I know it doesn't work this way, but IMO it would make more sense if teams could just LTIR a player for a full season. i.e. in this situation, Hossa is saying he won't play this year because of injury, he should just be crossed off for the year without possibility to return from LTIR until the following off-season. It would just make more sense than this LTIR song and dance the way it is now.

By that logic, they can acquire someone this summer to fill that voided $5.5mil cap hit as 10% of the $75mil cap hit would be allowed overage of $7.5mil. Right?? Wrong??
- EnzoD

Sorta...

...other guys seem to be explaining it correctly. Timing is the issue.

Is there anything prohibiting a contract for a replacement of Hossa's cap hit taking effect on day two? Seems to me that is a no-brainer.

Issue is how long the NHL yanks their junk to allow Hossa to be LTIR'ed. If it goes one minute beyond 7/1, you know the fix is in.

Vegas took emelin from MTL. They're gonna need D bad.

Chris Johnston‏Verified account @reporterchris 2h2 hours ago

Bill Daly says the NHL still has to evaluate whether Marian Hossa can be placed on LTIR next season. No timetable for that decision.

-----

Evaluate?!? Fine...you do that.

Legit health issue that he's been fighting for several years reaches a point where the treatment could kill him. Only recourse is to stop wearing the equipment...therefore to stop playing the game.

Should take about 5 minutes to "evaluate".

While you're at it Bill, what's you opinion again regarding clubs trading LTIR players that will never lace 'em up again...simply for cap relief?

KMA
- ArlingtonRob

Rob,

The evaluation is standard practice. The Hawks submit a request to put Hossa on LTIR. The league evaluates the request. If the league denies the request, it goes to a third party "neutral party" doctor. The league isn't going to stop this.

CBA Rule 50.10.d - page 290

So you're just playing the cynic...fine.

But to think that the great Marian Hossa... and he is great...an honorable man with pride would want to end his career by announcing that he has an awful skin condition...

...strikes me as absurd.

As a personal aside...

I hate the hard cap, and have been hoping for some sort of luxury tax added to the CBA. But the rules are the rules and the Hawks are doing nothing wrong.

I also think the cap recapture penalty imposed by the new CBA is a joke. If the long term deals were approved they shouldn't be penalizing teams after the fact.
- ArlingtonRob

There are a lot of things that are jokes in the NHL. The contracts that fall into the cap recapture were a joke. I mean, years of $1M at the end of your contract in your late 30s/40s? Everyone knew that was a joke along with other contracts.

The NHL gave teams the option of a special buy out those contracts. So I am ok with the penalty still being possible.

I do agree, it does seem absurd that Hossa would want to go out that way. People do absurd things though at times, even people that we don't think would do them.

Teams can go 10% over the cap during the offseason, as long as they are cap compliant when the season starts. So not being able to put Hoss on LTIR until the season starts will not inhibit them from making moves this summer.
- BMWChiFan

This ^^^^

Appears per nhlnumbers.com, which has an otherwise accurate GVK roster, Marcus Kruger and TVR are no longer Blackhawks.

They won the finals in 97, and 98...

You meant 95, it's ok
- ObeseOprah

96, 97 and 98. Repeat the three-peat. 96 also saw that 72-10 RS record.

If MJ doesn't "retire" the first time, the Bulls tie the 50's-60's Celts for the most consecutive titles: Eight. The roster is managed completely different after '93 if MJ stayed.