Man, I really hope Hossa comes back for the playoffs. Just to piss fans everywhere off.
- TTtime

Lol really. I suspect the level of crying would impact the jet stream.

Other large contracts do not make krugers contract unjustifiable in and of itself.
- JRoenick97

I'm not trying to say that the other contracts are justified. Most of them have NMC/NTC.

Kruger does not have that.

Kruger is not a two way player, because he simply can't accomplish anything offensively. He has the finishing ability of a 75 year-old man after 5 glasses of wine.

Well, your assessment of some of those players don't line up with the performance and you're listing quite a few that aren't even necessarily on the team.

Hinostroza, Motte, Hayden, and Forsling are not on the team currently as they are prospects as they are waivers exempt. They're listed on CapFriendly because they were up at the end of the year, not because they're somehow on the team. they'll all need to make it out of camp. And Glass was only reupped for expansion draft reasons so he's not going to be on the roster, come on.

Tootoo is a replacement level players, which is the definition of a 4th liner, so while not good, still came play the game. Kero, and Jurco are a bit above replacement level, so bottom 6 depth guys. It's weird you included Schmaltz considering how well he performed last year, especially the second half when put in a top 6 role. He's NHL ready.



Rutta is the only one that cannot be categorized since he's hasn't played yet.
- L_B_R

Yep, I agree, I wouldn't put much into what capfriendly has with regards to who's going to be on the opening night roster at this point.

You obviously don't know me very well

I not only can I justify Kruger's contract, I have done so several times, breaking down usage via video and stats. It might be what I'm known most for here, other than my love of JVR. To a cap strapped team, it's hard to justify keeping a player with Kruger's contract, but the contract itself can def be argued.
- L_B_R

L_B_R = Laugh, Breath, Relax??

I only put this out there because it kind of goes with how you post. Down to Earth, and not an alarmist in either direction. You don't let anyone rile you up!

By the way, I think you are one of the best posters using stats and analytics to prove your points. Of course, I haven't ever checked your stats, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

I don't understand why people are blaming the 'hawks franchise?

The NHL allows this to happen. They allowed it with Pronger. They can't NOT allow it now.

Teams found a loophole and they are going to use it. Especially when the contract, when signed, was perfectly legal. Any other GM would do the exact same thing, even if they are currently peeved.

For years people on this board has been pointing to this year of $1M in salary as the time Hossa might "hang it up." It's not a shock and it's not a surprise.

It does suck though, because he was absolutely my favorite player and I don't think the 'hawks win 3 in 6 without him.
- CanOCorn

People want to blame anyone for the backdiving deals, how bout looking at Ken Holland in Detroit for the Zetterberg and Franzen deals which were signed before Hossa's deal.

I personally don't blame GMs one bit though for looking for whatever advantage they can get. That's what they are paid to do. And don't kid yourself, back when these deals were signed, the teams who signed them (Detroit, Chicago, Vancouver, etc) were not the only ones offering them to players. They just were the teams who the players chose to sign with so those teams get all the blame, which is rather convenient for the other teams who also offered long-term contracts but just lost out on those players.

Usage/deployment and TOI do not agree with you. Structure of a team does not mean having a scoring 3C.
- L_B_R

They kind of do.

Center wise; AA saw the highest quality of competition (because best line in the league) followed by Toews then Kooga. Not really a shut down guy, except one series 3 seasons ago now. Because it worked Q never did it again. #3cups

Kooga skated 14:01 \gp - Kind of in between 3rd and 4th line. Last year he only skated 13:31 \ game. For 3.1 million mehhhhhhhh.

If they move him whatever. If they keep him that's cool too. If he is actually healthy this year that would be nice. If Q were to actually deploy him in a meaningful role that would be better.

6 of one half dozen of another with that deal or no deal.

I'm not trying to say that the other contracts are justified. Most of them have NMC/NTC.

Kruger does not have that.

Kruger is not a two way player, because he simply can't accomplish anything offensively. He has the finishing ability of a 75 year-old man after 5 glasses of wine.
- ObeseOprah

I was replying to this:

You cant honestly justify Krugs contract by performance. That isn't up for debate.
- nickmo2699

I got you guys mixed up.

They kind of do.

Center wise; AA saw the highest quality of competition (because best line in the league) followed by Toews then Kooga. Not really a shut down guy, except one series 3 seasons ago now. Because it worked Q never did it again. #3cups

Kooga skated 14:01 \gp - Kind of in between 3rd and 4th line. Last year he only skated 13:31 \ game. For 3.1 million mehhhhhhhh.

If they move him whatever. If they keep him that's cool too. If he is actually healthy this year that would be nice. If Q were to actually deploy him in a meaningful role that would be better.

6 of one half dozen of another with that deal or no deal.
- fattybeef

He was a 70% defensive zone deployment and 1 of 3 guys in the league with over 50% in the faceoff dot on DZ draws (took almost double the guy below him), and 50% corsi. That's very meaningful in your own end.

It you don't like people pointing out you are wrong, maybe do a little research before posting? Pointing out the Blackhawks used to be better than other teams isn't going to change anything.
- Antilles

I was pointing out you were wrong. Cite the CBA all you want. The chances of the league doctor disagreeing with this diagnosis are minuscule at best. It has apparently been prepared over time and has supporting lab work. What you are here doing, as usual, is outlining a worst case scenario because you hope that happens. It's exactly what you did during the Kane rape accusation period.

The Hawks organization knows the CBA. They know exactly what is required to meet the threshold to LTIR Hossa. This clearly is not a roll of the dice.

Icing on the cake. Great post
- 6628

*bows*

I was replying to this:




I got you guys mixed up.
- JRoenick97

screwed that up.


carry on

People want to blame anyone for the backdiving deals, how bout looking at Ken Holland in Detroit for the Zetterberg and Franzen deals which were signed before Hossa's deal.

I personally don't blame GMs one bit though for looking for whatever advantage they can get. That's what they are paid to do. And don't kid yourself, back when these deals were signed, the teams who signed them (Detroit, Chicago, Vancouver, etc) were not the only ones offering them to players. They just were the teams who the players chose to sign with so those teams get all the blame, which is rather convenient for the other teams who also offered long-term contracts but just lost out on those players.
- Hawksfan37

Here is what all the circumvention crowd fails to recall or mention. The Hawks had to re-submit Hossa's contract because the league initially did not approve the contract.

They changed it and the league then approved it. So, they can all perform a physically impossible act on themselves.

Since the last lockout had to do with teams signing cap work arounds like Hossa and penalties to the cap if he retired too soon don't you think this will be seen for what it is?--Hossa's reitirement with a cap work around?

What penalties do you think will come from it?
- BluemanGuruu

Maybe Bettman will take back the 3 cups?

No thank you. E. Kane is the definition of unmotivated. And he's a jack ass.
- JRoenick97

This is an example of how much of a loss Hossa is to the Blackhawks. With a HOFer like him putting in constant effort, dealing with a difficult medical condition, 200 ft game, backchecksu galore, etc. along with the rest of "the core" a team could afford to take a chance on a guy like EKane. A strong culture can absorb one or two malcontents with talent and get a lot out of them, especially for a year or two of honeymoon. Fewer clubhouse leaders means fewer options for StanBo.

He was a 70% defensive zone deployment and 1 of 3 guys in the league with over 50% in the faceoff dot on DZ draws (took almost double the guy below him), and 50% corsi. That's very meaningful in your own end.
- JRoenick97

Maybe if he saw more ice time

You don't pay a guy 3 million to win a draw, dump the puck and then go for a change. That seems a little ridiculous.

Lol really. I suspect the level of crying would impact the jet stream.
- kwolf68

JJ reports that there is a rumor Hossa's condition may be treatable with Neosporin about 2 weeks before the end of the season.

Maybe if he saw more ice time

You don't pay a guy 3 million to win a draw, dump the puck and then go for a change. That seems a little ridiculous.
- fattybeef

EXACTLY! Especially with the 2 largest Cap Hits in the entire NHL on the books.

Hinostroza, Motte, Hayden, and Forsling are all on the team. Maybe you weren't watching the majority of the games last year. They're going to be there for camp and in the first couple weeks of the season. Kero is very questionable, Jurco is moving closer to bust status.

I like Schmaltz but he's not a sure thing to be a top 6. He's just our best prospect next to Debrincat right now. I hope he pans out great, but we can't assume he's going to be the next Brassard.
- ObeseOprah

Neither Motte or Forsling even broken half the games last year and then were never recalled once sent to the AHL. How you can claim they're a guarantee to be on the team is beyond me. The only reason Forsling stayed up as long as he did was because of the clause in his contract. Hayden is likely, but it's no sure thing considering he was dropped all the way to the 4th line by the time his 12 game tryout finished. I actually think he will make it in a bottom 6 role, but if he does, then he's not a AHLer, is he? And I disagree about Kero and Jurco - their performance, eye test and statistically, say they can play in the NHL.

Schmaltz is not a prospect anymore - he played in over 2/3 of the season with half that time in a top 6 role. He may not be a sure thing in the top 6, but he's certainly an NHL player at this point. To somehow rank him below DeBrincat is silly considering the kid hasn't played a single pro game.

Neither Motte or Forsling even broken half the games last year and then were never recalled once sent to the AHL. How you can claim they're a guarantee to be on the team is beyond me. The only reason Forsling stayed up as long as he did was because of the clause in his contract. Hayden is likely, but it's no sure thing considering he was dropped all the way to the 4th line by the time his 12 game tryout finished. I actually think he will make it in a bottom 6 role, but if he does, then he's not a AHLer, is he? And I disagree about Kero and Jurco - their performance, eye test and statistically, say they can play in the NHL.

Schmaltz is not a prospect anymore - he played in over 2/3 of the season with half that time in a top 6 role. He may not be a sure thing in the top 6, but he's certainly an NHL player at this point. To somehow rank him below DeBrincat is silly considering the kid hasn't played a single pro game.
- L_B_R

I'd say Kero is more of a lock than Motte or Forsling.

Neither Motte or Forsling even broken half the games last year and then were never recalled once sent to the AHL. How you can claim they're a guarantee to be on the team is beyond me. The only reason Forsling stayed up as long as he did was because of the clause in his contract. Hayden is likely, but it's no sure thing considering he was dropped all the way to the 4th line by the time his 12 game tryout finished. I actually think he will make it in a bottom 6 role, but if he does, then he's not a AHLer, is he? And I disagree about Kero and Jurco - their performance, eye test and statistically, say they can play in the NHL.

Schmaltz is not a prospect anymore - he played in over 2/3 of the season with half that time in a top 6 role. He may not be a sure thing in the top 6, but he's certainly an NHL player at this point. To somehow rank him below DeBrincat is silly considering the kid hasn't played a single pro game.
- L_B_R

Agree to disagree. I still think we'll have too much of our roster filled out by guys who'd struggle to find playing time on a team with decent depth.

Maybe Bettman will take back the 3 cups?
- tredbrta

Always amusing when the 2 blues fans pipe up.

@JSportsnet

The 30 teams have been informed which player they are losing to Vegas.All are in the process of informing those players of their selection.

They kind of do.

Center wise; AA saw the highest quality of competition (because best line in the league) followed by Toews then Kooga. Not really a shut down guy, except one series 3 seasons ago now. Because it worked Q never did it again. #3cups

Kooga skated 14:01 \gp - Kind of in between 3rd and 4th line. Last year he only skated 13:31 \ game. For 3.1 million mehhhhhhhh.

If they move him whatever. If they keep him that's cool too. If he is actually healthy this year that would be nice. If Q were to actually deploy him in a meaningful role that would be better.

6 of one half dozen of another with that deal or no deal.
- fattybeef

Couple of notes:

Average 4C in the NHL skates about 8-10 minutes overall while teams that roll 4 lines in a more structured way have their 4C skating about 12 minutes. 4C are typically deployed against the lowest QOC with medium OZS%. This is true of most 4 mine rotation team as well, outside of ones like the Pens. Most of that does not apply to Kruger, so usage/deployment is not typical of a 4C.

Looking beyond what is typical, in Q's system, the Hawks have had the highest OZS% in the league most seasons, so their offensive centers TOI is somewhat skewed above average (Kane double shifting with an offensive 3rd helped, Shaw benefited from this a lot). How do they have one of the highest OZS%? It's partially thanks to the shutdown/checking lines flipping the ice at one of the highest success rates (more on this below).

Kruger's QOC has gone down since his QOT went down and/or when his line usage changed to be slight more two-way (when Hartman / Panik / Hossa were on his line). They shifted from seeing high QOC to mid QOC, but they saw them even more in the DZ so that Anisimov did not. Looking at shift chart info, it's clear that Kruger's line was used as a possession driver so that Anisimov's line could come out on the OZ (the most common line change was Kruger to Panarin, most DZ to OZ). It's pretty clear when you dig a bit more that Q used Kruger outside the normal parameters of a typical 4C, so to label him as such would be inaccurate.

If you'd like, I have go through a full documentation of his shifting responsibilities over time as it relates to his linemates and role of his lines as the other lines changed. It'll be like novel length though because I am verbose lol. I think it's totally understandable for people to think Kruger's contract is too much, but I think it's a disservice for what he does and how he performs to say he's a 4C.