Wrong on the first 2 points, but I'll agree there is an element that Horny brings to the Pens.
- j.boyd919

Please give me a single example of an expansion team taking a goalie that was not previously a starter at the NHL level to be their inaugural season starter in the past maybe 3 or 4 expansions. Wendell Young in 1992 to Tampa? Cause all of the other 90's/00's teams took at LEAST 1 guy that had been a starter for a few (or a LOT) of years during their drafts.

Not a single one of the other available goalies except Elliott has been a starter & there's not a chance that they take Elliott over Fleury.

No NHL GM will risk their inaugural season on the shoulders of an unproven starter. It's that simple. And every single one of those other guys are an unproven starter.

Trouba I think is worth paying the extra. Trouba is a first pairing caliber, perfectly rounded defenseman who has legit #1 potential and is currently on an inexpensive bridge deal.

I put Barrie before Vatanen on the list of targets specifically because of Sakic. He's bad at his job and I have a lot of confidence in Rutherford to go in there and win a trade for Barrie.

Brodie is essentially what I hope Trouba turns into and is on a sub-5 mil contract. He's one of the most underrated players in the NHL and has one of the best contracts in the league. He's a legitimate #1 defenseman on almost any team, is a gifted puck mover, but is also good in his own end and on the boards. I don't think Calgary parts with him, but if I were a GM, I'd enquire just in case there's a deal to be had. Brodie's a guy I'd be willing to trade Conor Sheary for.
- Victoro311

Honestly I really liked the lineup with Manson in it that you me and dupes out together. I really wonder what it would take to get him in the black and gold.

Did you not see what he did to Olli Maatta whenever they were paired together? When Daley went down in the playoffs, Maatta looked like rookie Maatta, and then when Daley came back Maatta went back to bad Maatta. He drags his partners down.

Maybe if Sullivan wasn't so insistent on playing those two together, I'd be more open to bring Daley in as Ian Cole's parter on the bottom pair, but I don't want Sullivan to even the option of playing Maatta and Daley together.
- Victoro311

Honestly I think Määttä should be traded now for a guy like Duchene, Trouba or Barrie. Off course we'd have to add something. Määttä is the one we have to let go as his value is high right now. Daley at $2M is a keeper.

What was I wrong about?
- j.boyd919

I don't think Hockeybuzz will let me repost the entirety of your posting history, so let's just go with "everything" and be done with it.

Did you not see what he did to Olli Maatta whenever they were paired together? When Daley went down in the playoffs, Maatta looked like rookie Maatta, and then when Daley came back Maatta went back to bad Maatta. He drags his partners down.

Maybe if Sullivan wasn't so insistent on playing those two together, I'd be more open to bring Daley in as Ian Cole's parter on the bottom pair, but I don't want Sullivan to even the option of playing Maatta and Daley together.
- Victoro311

I dont understand why the Dums-Day pairing was never revisited. Those two looked really solid together last year...

Soooo...the expansion draft is tomorrow? If so, what time?

Im dying to see some players moved around and read about it haha

Yep. That's my opinion on the matter. If we do resign Daley.. you just know Sully is gonna play him all season with Maatta and that poop is excruciating.
- j.boyd919

Trade Määttä while he has value. I do think he was our 6th best D this season. Go for Duchene, Barrie, Vatanen or Trouba.

And I won't lie: Oshie would look good with us.

What about a package of Sprong+Rust+1st for Brodie... Would you pull the trigger on that?
- j.boyd919

Absolutely. Rust will always have a place in my heart and Sprong will always be the what could have been story I tell to my grandchildren, but you don't say no to TJ Brodie if you're not giving up Jake Guentzal.

Although I have the sneaking suspicion that if they're willing to do that, they'd be willing to do Carl Hagelin instead of Rust. I'd prefer it if they were asking for Hornqvist.

Trade Määttä while he has value. I do think he was our 6th best D this season. Go for Duchene, Barrie, Vatanen or Trouba.

And I won't lie: Oshie would look good with us.
- Barnaby36

I wouldnt mind Oshie but the Pens are pretty good at the wing...its 3C, 4C and D-men thats up in the air.

Please give me a single example of an expansion team taking a goalie that was not previously a starter at the NHL level to be their inaugural season starter in the past maybe 3 or 4 expansions. Wendell Young in 1992 to Tampa? Cause all of the other 90's/00's teams took at LEAST 1 guy that had been a starter for a few (or a LOT) of years during their drafts.

Not a single one of the other available goalies except Elliott has been a starter & there's not a chance that they take Elliott over Fleury.

No NHL GM will risk their inaugural season on the shoulders of an unproven starter. It's that simple. And every single one of those other guys are an unproven starter.
- ScienceJesus

Not gonna worry about past expansion drafts because I don't have the data that was available then, like I do that is available now. Fleury is a GOOD GOALIE. I admit that. But I think Mrazek is BETTER.

In 133 games played vs. Fleury's 160 GP in the last 3 years, Mrazek has better numbers playing on a worse team. That's really all there is to it.

I don't think Hockeybuzz will let me repost the entirety of your posting history, so let's just go with "everything" and be done with it.
- ScienceJesus

Uh huh. Nice cop-out.

Honestly I think Määttä should be traded now for a guy like Duchene, Trouba or Barrie. Off course we'd have to add something. Määttä is the one we have to let go as his value is high right now. Daley at $2M is a keeper.
- Barnaby36

If we trade Maatta, we need a defenseman coming back. I'm not at all apposed to trading Maatta, since I don't think he'll ever turn into a #2 guy, but if we trade him for a forward, our defense will be in shambles. Maatta is not an addition by subtraction guy, and yes, he is much better than Trevor Daley. Sending out Maatta and replacing him with Daley in the top 4 is no bueno.

I dont understand why the Dums-Day pairing was never revisited. Those two looked really solid together last year...
- MattStrat

Me neither? And Maatta-Letang have played well in the past. Hell I wouldn't mind...

Maatta-Letang
Dumo-Schultz
Cole-Daley

next season but we know it ain't happenin

Have they done the new schedule for next season yet?

Big question, who will fall to Vegas first? Which team gets the Knights pooper scooper banner? I hope it's the Rags!

No to Shatts, if we trade Maatta for a stud, I hope it's a stud Dman but I'm thinking it's probably not going to be. I'm afraid that it's going to be another patchwork D core hitting the ice again next season - I will be very happy to take that back if it's not, but..............

But in the end, going back to back really softens any blow that may be felt next season (till around January, then it's back to WTF JR???)!

Me neither? And Maatta-Letang have played well in the past. Hell I wouldn't mind...

Maatta-Letang
Dumo-Schultz
Cole-Daley

next season but we know it ain't happenin
- j.boyd919

I'm cool with that. Not over the moon on it, but if Letang were to stay healthy, that's a good defense.

I'm cool with that. Not over the moon on it, but if Letang were to stay healthy, that's a good defense.
- Victoro311

Not bad...13 cup rings between them....

Trouba I think is worth paying the extra. Trouba is a first pairing caliber, perfectly rounded defenseman who has legit #1 potential and is currently on an inexpensive bridge deal.

I put Barrie before Vatanen on the list of targets specifically because of Sakic. He's bad at his job and I have a lot of confidence in Rutherford to go in there and win a trade for Barrie.

Brodie is essentially what I hope Trouba turns into and is on a sub-5 mil contract. He's one of the most underrated players in the NHL and has one of the best contracts in the league. He's a legitimate #1 defenseman on almost any team, is a gifted puck mover, but is also good in his own end and on the boards. I don't think Calgary parts with him, but if I were a GM, I'd enquire just in case there's a deal to be had. Brodie's a guy I'd be willing to trade Conor Sheary for.
- Victoro311

Speaking of Calgary, what ever happened to those Dougie Hamilton rumors?

I'm cool with that. Not over the moon on it, but if Letang were to stay healthy, that's a good defense.
- Victoro311

It just sucks that it's obvious Sully wouldn't roll those pairings

Speaking of Calgary, what ever happened to those Dougie Hamilton rumors?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Not a bad target either all though I've always been worried about Hamilton's attitude and I strongly prefer Brodie.

Absolutely. Rust will always have a place in my heart and Sprong will always be the what could have been story I tell to my grandchildren, but you don't say no to TJ Brodie if you're not giving up Jake Guentzal.

Although I have the sneaking suspicion that if they're willing to do that, they'd be willing to do Carl Hagelin instead of Rust. I'd prefer it if they were asking for Hornqvist.
- Victoro311

I am not saying I base everything on HERO charts, but since I haven't really watched him play much, what am I missing here on T.J. Brodie?




EDIT: how the hell do you paste in these HERO charts? lol. this was a comparison of Brodie and Maatta and they are pretty much the same

Speaking of Calgary, what ever happened to those Dougie Hamilton rumors?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

He turned his season around and had a very solid year. I dont think he's going anywhere.

Not gonna worry about past expansion drafts because I don't have the data that was available then, like I do that is available now. Fleury is a GOOD GOALIE. I admit that. But I think Mrazek is BETTER.

In 133 games played vs. Fleury's 160 GP in the last 3 years, Mrazek has better numbers playing on a worse team. That's really all there is to it.
- j.boyd919

So what you're saying is that the past 25 years of evidence that no GM doesn't take at least 1 guy with significant starting experience means nothing because some fancy stats say that a guy that's never been a starter might make a better starter even though he's never done it? Can't argue with that logic, I guess..

I went all the way back to the 1972 expansion draft and every single expansion team except for Tampa Bay has taken at least 1 guy that had at LEAST a few years of NHL starting experience (and in some cases, such as Mike Richter, over a decade). That's actually 45 years of evidence that say "NHL GM's of expansion teams value starting experience in their 1st seasons". It took all of 15 minutes.

Trade Määttä while he has value. I do think he was our 6th best D this season. Go for Duchene, Barrie, Vatanen or Trouba.

And I won't lie: Oshie would look good with us.
- Barnaby36

If we could package Hornqvist for an excellent defenseman, we could sign Oshie as a replacement. He won't replace everything Horny brings but Oshie brings a PF element we dont really have.

So what you're saying is that the past 25 years of evidence that no GM doesn't take at least 1 guy with significant starting experience means nothing because some fancy stats say that a guy that's never been a starter might make a better starter even though he's never done it? Can't argue with that logic, I guess..

I went all the way back to the 1972 expansion draft and every single expansion team except for Tampa Bay has taken at least 1 guy that had at LEAST a few years of NHL starting experience (and in some cases, such as Mike Richter, over a decade). That's actually 45 years of evidence that say "NHL GM's of expansion teams value starting experience in their 1st seasons". It took all of 15 minutes.
- ScienceJesus

In 133 games played vs. Fleury's 160 GP in the last 3 years, Mrazek has better numbers playing on a worse team.

I am not saying I base everything on HERO charts, but since I haven't really watched him play much, what am I missing here on T.J. Brodie?




EDIT: how the hell do you paste in these HERO charts? lol. this was a comparison of Brodie and Maatta and they are pretty much the same
- YouMeAndDupuis9

The same...expect everything Maatta has dealt with and battled back from.

Now the big difference would be one plays for the Pens the other plays for the Avs...