Fair enough. I disagree, but I can see both sides of it.
- T-Train

However, I definitely like the idea of moving Hornquist +? for Vatenen.

Yep. There's better options out there.

Shatty should be no. 1

I wouldn't really hate Markov at 1 year if it was at the right price. His shot suppression kinda leaves to be desired though. And he's a lefty, so I dunno if he plays the right side.

Franson should be an option. Him on the 3rd period would be solid.

Those are really the only D worth a damn in FA... I think any other option would be acquired by trade and I'd rather not go down that path.
- j.boyd919

Vatanen would definitely be my top target outside of Trouba. Just think Trouba takes too much. I'm also fine with Markov on the left. I feel like Maata may be ready to turn a corner too. Plus, Schultz's two way game is undervalued.

Vatanen would definitely be my top target outside of Trouba. Just think Trouba takes too much. I'm also fine with Markov on the left. I feel like Maata may be ready to turn a corner too. Plus, Schultz's two way game is undervalued.
- cranktheradio

If they sign Markov for the left side you've got Dumo, Maatta, Cole, Markov on the left side, I'm not sure how that's gonna work?

It's almost like the fancy stats club is peeved that this version of the Penguins won it all. That's why we got 6 hours of a celebration thread here and then all the sudden it was shifted to Fleury waiving his NMC. Pathetic. The Cup killed fancy stats as they pertain to the Penguins.
- hardnosed

Its unreal, its almost like they would have rather the Pens lost, just so they could say their stats were right, then have the Pens win and prove them wrong.

Its unreal, its almost like they would have rather the Pens lost, just so they could say their stats were right, then have the Pens win and prove them wrong.
- Thorny

I'm not quite sure who's saying that? But that's funny.

That's not the point. The point is, would you trade Kessel (a forward, a strength on the Pens) for a stud PMD (a weakness on the Pens, especially when Letang is injured, which is often).

So instead of Karlsson, Burns, or Hedman, what about the next tier just below elite? It would be realistic and I think it would make the Pens a better, more complete team.
- T-Train

Probably not, just because we've won back to back cups with him. The man scores in the playoffs. I'm not moving that.

Its unreal, its almost like they would have rather the Pens lost, just so they could say their stats were right, then have the Pens win and prove them wrong.
- Thorny

Bit of a misunderstanding of fancy stats. I think they had us as a lower probability and quite frankly caps probably should have beaten us. But even then we had a 30% probability maybe a little higher according to fancy stats.

But it was really on the capital series where the fancy stats were strongly against us. And obviously fancy stats should account for superior PDO if it can be justified on a large sample size. I would obviously consider our shooters as superior to nashvilles (crosby, malkin, kessel; its not really debatable) and our goalie Murray I'd definitely take over Rinne.

I think Kessel might be a guy who doesn't go 100% during the regular season, but that also means he has a gear he can turn up in the playoffs. He's never hurt so that makes me think he avoids a lot of the contact that can turn into injuries or slow a player down after they occur. A guy putting up points on shooting skill versus a guy putting up points off of grit is going to be less injury prone. Same thing with crosby who has more of an injury history. Some of that is becuase he's a grinder.

You see the same thing with AHL call-ups. They can play quite fine for 5-10 games, but once the adrenaline wears off they come back down to earth.

Probably wise to assume all of the second tier core is being shopped. Sheary, Horn, maatta. All the guys with decent trade value. Rust too, but with how low his salary is not something we want to move. Hagelin I wouldn't give much trade value but potential someone would have 3c and be fine with swapping contracts.

I really hope moving forward Letang is honest with himself and the training staff when it comes to injuries. This run couldn't have been easy for him. Sit out a few games when he's not 100% to help prevent them from becoming season ending injuries.

Vatanen would definitely be my top target outside of Trouba. Just think Trouba takes too much. I'm also fine with Markov on the left. I feel like Maata may be ready to turn a corner too. Plus, Schultz's two way game is undervalued.
- cranktheradio

Trouba is an ideal defenseman for the Pens but also probably would be top pair on 98% or the teams in this league. I don't know why he would ever be on the trade block but I could only hope if he was traded it was to us.

Vatanen is solid.

Ultimately, I think I'd just sign Brendan Smith to a decent contract and keep our prime assets. Smith is almost on a Niskanen level to me.

Probably wise to assume all of the second tier core is being shopped. Sheary, Horn, maatta. All the guys with decent trade value. Rust too, but with how low his salary is not something we want to move. Hagelin I wouldn't give much trade value but potential someone would have 3c and be fine with swapping contracts.
- sditulli

I wouldn't write off Hagelin. Dude is game changer when healthy. He was a beast in the cup clincher once he returned to form.

Similarly to Craig Smith in Nashville. That dude can change momentum as well despite a big-ish contract and not great production.

Pittsburgh has a lot of guys that can finish, they don't have many forechecking demons who are excellent on PK.

That said, if we are talking Galchenyuk level return, then I would consider moving. But I'm not actively shopping Hags.

Also, since there was some talk of signing Radulov in todays blog. I just want to go on record saying I would much rather sign Oshie if we were signing a wing. As much as I hated him, I would love him on my team.

It's almost like the fancy stats club is peeved that this version of the Penguins won it all. That's why we got 6 hours of a celebration thread here and then all the sudden it was shifted to Fleury waiving his NMC. Pathetic. The Cup killed fancy stats as they pertain to the Penguins.
- hardnosed

this. i dont care much about the fancy stat argument either way, because i think living and dying by them is just as sort sighted as not acknowledging them at all.

but christ. i love playing armchair GM as much as the next guy, but i dont know if its because its the second one and people are spoiled or what, but im not seeing nearly as much elation as i feel like there should be.

guys. the pens won the stanley (frank)ing cup less than a week ago. Are you not entertained?

this. i dont care much about the fancy stat argument either way, because i think living and dying by them is just as sort sighted as not acknowledging them at all.

but christ. i love playing armchair GM as much as the next guy, but i dont know if its because its the second one and people are spoiled or what, but im not seeing nearly as much elation as i feel like there should be.

guys. the pens won the stanley (frank)ing cup less than a week ago. Are you not entertained?
- stayinthefnnet

It's only that way because of the damn expansion draft one week after the finals ended. Media were asking Flower about his farewell ON THE ICE during the celebration.

Its unreal, its almost like they would have rather the Pens lost, just so they could say their stats were right, then have the Pens win and prove them wrong.
- Thorny

Except that you're the only ones still talking about them.

I think Kessel might be a guy who doesn't go 100% during the regular season, but that also means he has a gear he can turn up in the playoffs. He's never hurt so that makes me think he avoids a lot of the contact that can turn into injuries or slow a player down after they occur. A guy putting up points on shooting skill versus a guy putting up points off of grit is going to be less injury prone. Same thing with crosby who has more of an injury history. Some of that is becuase he's a grinder.

You see the same thing with AHL call-ups. They can play quite fine for 5-10 games, but once the adrenaline wears off they come back down to earth.
- sditulli

That's a very good point. On a team with so many injured players, he is an ironman. Also agree with being a playoff performer - some guys are and some guys are not. Then there are some who seem driven by padding their regular season stats and probably wear themselves out come playoff time.

Trouba is an ideal defenseman for the Pens but also probably would be top pair on 98% or the teams in this league. I don't know why he would ever be on the trade block but I could only hope if he was traded it was to us.

Vatanen is solid.

Ultimately, I think I'd just sign Brendan Smith to a decent contract and keep our prime assets. Smith is almost on a Niskanen level to me.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Eh, I don't know about that. Niskanen is a solid top pairing dman whereas Smith is at best a solid 2nd pairing dman. I think both are close to or at their potential.

I wouldn't write off Hagelin. Dude is game changer when healthy. He was a beast in the cup clincher once he returned to form.

Similarly to Craig Smith in Nashville. That dude can change momentum as well despite a big-ish contract and not great production.

Pittsburgh has a lot of guys that can finish, they don't have many forechecking demons who are excellent on PK.

That said, if we are talking Galchenyuk level return, then I would consider moving. But I'm not actively shopping Hags.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I agree about Hags. I was/am hoping that Rust could be that player on a much cheaper contract. It's not easy finding a player with Hags' speed combined with his hockey sense. Hags is overpaid considering his production, but as you say, he has a niche and is a game-changer. I do think if we move on from Hags that Ruth and Sully know the formula and will try to find a similar player, either from within or elsewhere.

Right. But what about those other playoff series where he couldn't stop a beach ball and started seeing a sports shrink?

Retarded is a word that means underdeveloped. I didn't use it incorrectly, calling a player a head case based on a false media narrative is in fact a retarded narrative, it's an underdeveloped one, unless you are his sports shrink, have access to his medical records, or anything of the sort, then I will retract my statement, but as it stands, I didn't use the word incorrectly, I used it to describe an underdeveloped narrative.
- j.boyd919

Why do you have to be a complete ass about it boyd? Come on man.

this. i dont care much about the fancy stat argument either way, because i think living and dying by them is just as sort sighted as not acknowledging them at all.

but christ. i love playing armchair GM as much as the next guy, but i dont know if its because its the second one and people are spoiled or what, but im not seeing nearly as much elation as i feel like there should be.

guys. the pens won the stanley (frank)ing cup less than a week ago. Are you not entertained?
- stayinthefnnet

If it makes any difference, I think about it all the time. And from a lot of different angles. I'm glad Crosby and Malkin are making up for lost time. I'm glad all the Crosby haters have something more to be pissed off about. I'm REALLY happy for Fleury, especially given what looks like his last season with the Pens and how despondent he looked during the last Cup celebration. I'm happy we trounced the f'ing goony Blue Jackets and their Neanderthal coach. I'm glad that Cullen was rewarded for playing another season. I'm elated that we beat the annoying Caps (again) and disproved the fancy stat devotees along the way. I'm glad Kessel is getting even more redemption from his detractors. I'm glad all of those classless Nashville fans went home dejected after getting so close. In fact, I relish the disappointment of d-bag hockey fans everywhere! I'm happy for Mario and the entire organization who do things right from top to bottom. There's more but I won't continue to bore everyone.

Long story short: Just because people aren't posting about it doesn't mean we've moved on or that it wasn't a great moment in Pens history in which to revel.

This is actually my favorite Cup run of the five. '09 is a close second. The NHL is really testing my patience with the officiating, though. I have become less of a fan because of it.

If they sign Markov for the left side you've got Dumo, Maatta, Cole, Markov on the left side, I'm not sure how that's gonna work?
- j.boyd919

Cole's played the right side before and been fine.

Oh, I see we're back talking about the idiocy of Shattenkirk. For Letang money, I want someone who isn't a fvcking disaster in his own zone. Say it with me kids... he's not even Letang in the offensive zone & he's Cameron Gaunce in his own zone. Hard HARD pass. He's got "wildly overpaid Rangers contract" written all over him. It's like some of the people here never ever ever see the warning signs.

And some stupid theory that it's going to require "convincing" to take Fleury. Ha. I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me anything that Mrazek, Grubauer, or any of the rest of these "just as good young goalies" have ever won. And that can include the starting position for any NHL team. I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a while. No NHL GM of an expansion team goes with a guy that's never even been a starter before because it's asinine.

And all topped off with the chronic misunderstanding of what Hornqvist brings to this team & looking simply at him from a dollars & cents standpoint? It almost saddens me to see how narrow of a vision some of my fellow pens fans are. If Sid/Geno/Tanger are the engine that drives the bus, Horny is the steering wheel. He's the guy that directs their 10 billion horsepower towards the net instead of towards a pretty play that might eventually go in the general direction of the net if the 37 pass prerequisite before shooting is met before being broken up or a mistake is made. He's the guy that turns a immensely talented but often maddeningly directionless attack & is the constant reminder of where it needs to go.

The level of absurdity on this board sometimes is staggering.

I know we keep bringing up Trouba as a trade target, but how would you feel about trading for Myers? Could be had for less, due to injury history.

Sheary isn't going to get more than a 2 year bridge deal. Having one good regular season riding shotgun with the best player in the league isn't enough to earn a lucrative long term deal. He probably signs for 2yr/$6M.

Holding out hope they get Duchene without trading the whole farm.

Hornquist will stay. I'd be cool with signing his next contract. He is going to get a few years at $3Mish and would be well worth it.

It seems apparent that they already have a deal in place with LV. Maybe it was just a deal to take Fleury if he waives his NTC. Maybe it includes adding a pick or player to take him. No idea but GMJR seems confident in what will happen tomorrow.

I might be living in the past but when I see Kronwall exposed by Detroit I get curious whether there is a deal that could be made for him. I love his game and the Pens could really use a physical threat on the back end. Just not sure if age and injuries have caught up with him. I hate the Wings but have always loved the way he plays the game.