If vegas takes Eric Staal I wonder if he could be had for Hagelin+
- jchst22

Staal is a far more interesting option than Thornton, and even if the Knights aren't in play reaching out to the cap-strapped Wild would be a good idea.

Don't know that Hagelin would be a centerpiece, though. They'd want kids.

Staal is a far more interesting option than Thornton, and even if the Knights aren't in play reaching out to the cap-strapped Wild would be a good idea.

Don't know that Hagelin would be a centerpiece, though. They'd want kids.
- hardnosed

Just thought their cap hits would basically cancel out and fill that 3c need the pens may have

Don't see it happening, though it would be the quickest way to greatly improve the team.

The top four is set with Letang/Dumoulin/Maatta/Schultz. Then Cole. So they need one D, but I'm not sure it won't be a cheaply re-signed Daley.
- hardnosed

If Letang could stay healthy, I'd be confident in that group. However, I'm not confident Letang will be on the ice at the start of the playoffs next year. I don't know how the team can have that confidence either.

Yep. Some folks are just clouded by the hatred of Fleury, or the hatred of being wrong about him being "done" time after time, year after year.

Fleury will be a huge asset for Vegas, on the ice and off. There's no reason why Vegas would have to sweeten that pot.

And honestly the Knights have little leverage here. Won't take Fleury without a sweetener? Okay, fine. We'll keep him. He's been integral to the past two Cup runs, they can find a way to make it work if they absolutely have to, whether that's a trade with another team, or keeping him until next trade deadline.
- hardnosed

I love MAF. I'm one of his biggest fans on this board. It doesn't change the fact that his value is not as high as some Pens fans think. There are some nice, younger tenders on the board for Vegas.

Make no mistake, we need the cap relief far more than they need MAF. We have a bunch of raises to pay and at least a couple of players to add.

I love MAF. I'm one of his biggest fans on this board. It doesn't change the fact that his value is not as high as some Pens fans think. There are some nice, younger tenders on the board for Vegas.

Make no mistake, we need the cap relief far more than they need MAF. We have a bunch of raises to pay and at least a couple of players to add.
- madmike71

And none of those young tenders make long-term or short-term sense. Trusting a franchise's first year to a guy like Ullmark or Subban doesn't make sense. And then guys like Grubauer and Raanta have never been a #1 and will both need long-term deals next year. And then Mrazek is a $4 mil head case. Fleury is a proven winner coming off of an outstanding playoff. He's signed for the perfect term, and he's capable of being the face of the franchise, which cannot be undersold for a team trying to endear itself to a market made up of short-timers and transients.

They have $15 mil to play with without Fleury coming off the books. They could get most of their offseason agenda done with that amount if they had to. Not ideal, but it's not like they're hard against the cap.

I love MAF. I'm one of his biggest fans on this board. It doesn't change the fact that his value is not as high as some Pens fans think. There are some nice, younger tenders on the board for Vegas.

Make no mistake, we need the cap relief far more than they need MAF. We have a bunch of raises to pay and at least a couple of players to add.
- madmike71

Agreed.

I think his value is still high with Vegas specifically and maybe not as much with other teams. They're gonna try to ice a competitive team for the first few years while being supported by an influx of their draftees during that time. To them, Fleury is the guy that can play 55-60 games comfortably and hopefully draw interest in their market by being a winning team. It's not that the other guys being expansion drafted can't, but they haven't proven it yet. I think if you can get a proven majority starter, you have to take him.

Fleury also waived his nmc for vegas. Having a guy to choose to go there and be your leader is a big deal. It would be a giant FU to fleury to make the pens pay a bribe. Would be treating a classy guy who you need to sell tickets poorly

Fleury also waived his nmc for vegas. Having a guy to choose to go there and be your leader is a big deal. It would be a giant FU to fleury to make the pens pay a bribe. Would be treating a classy guy who you need to sell tickets poorly
- sditulli

Who needs who to sell tickets again?

Who needs who to sell tickets again?
- Feds91Stammer

Don't worry about tickets. You just look at graphs.

Fleury is in all likelihood vegas number one pick if they ranked the pick. It's not about analytics. He's a borderline hall of famer probably because of the team he's played on that is essentially still ins prime. Vegas is absolutely giddy about getting a guy like him to market their first year. The average fan doesn't stare at graphs and fleury will be perfect for vegas. Their ownership would be livid if their gm tried to play hardball and we traded him elsewhere. I wouldn't care that much about losing hags and his salary because it means we dump fleury elsewhere and have a silly amount of cap space to throw at shatty.

Plus you would also hurt fleury feelings to make Ruth pay a bribe. Instead you have fleury willing to go to Vegas and be the guy the media interviews. Big difference between I look at graphs gm and real world gm. Just look at the love fleury gets in Pittsburgh is all you need to know about what fleury is bringing to Vegas.

Great in video game world. Awful in real life when Vegas is creating posters of their 3-time cup winning goalie drafted #1 overall.
- sditulli

BLASPHEMY

Don't worry about tickets. You just look at graphs.
- sditulli

You honestly think Vegas needs this supposed "face" of the franchise to sell tickets?

Kinda funny but I took brook koepkas gf to dinner like almost a decade ago

I agree with most everyone about Fleury and Vegas. If Vegas doesn't want him or wants us to add something, I'm pretty sure we could trade him for nothing to someone else. No way in hell does claiming Fleury need a "sweetener." Losing Rust would suck but not the end of the world and losing Hags would be fine with his cap hit and term.

Isn't it funny that I brought up trading apparent sacred cow Kessel the other day and people went ballistic. Now RW alludes to it...hmmm...I wonder what he will put forth as a possible scenario...

Here's a fun exercise. Think of the one defenseman (aka "Letang insurance") you would like to have on the Pens, regardless of his situation. Now, would you trade Kessel straight up for him? Does it make the Pens a better team? Of course, such a trade scenario is unrealistic, but the point is you would do it. Well, I'm sure there are some defenseman-heavy teams out there in need of a forward, it's just a matter of finding the right value for both sides.

To borrow a phrase from the Fleury-to-Vegas debate, the Pens need a stud PMD more than they need Kessel.

Staal is a far more interesting option than Thornton, and even if the Knights aren't in play reaching out to the cap-strapped Wild would be a good idea.

Don't know that Hagelin would be a centerpiece, though. They'd want kids.
- hardnosed

Staal had a nice bounce back season this year, but I'd still much rather have Thornton for just cap space than Staal for assets. I don't buy the Thornton is Cup kryptonite argument. The Sharks have had a plethora of near misses in their recent playoff history. They've lost to the eventual Stanley Cup Champions 3 times, and lost to a dominant Canucks team that should have won the Cup that year another. Plus, he's always been a great point producer in the playoffs, so its not like he disappears.

And none of those young tenders make long-term or short-term sense. Trusting a franchise's first year to a guy like Ullmark or Subban doesn't make sense. And then guys like Grubauer and Raanta have never been a #1 and will both need long-term deals next year. And then Mrazek is a $4 mil head case. Fleury is a proven winner coming off of an outstanding playoff. He's signed for the perfect term, and he's capable of being the face of the franchise, which cannot be undersold for a team trying to endear itself to a market made up of short-timers and transients.

They have $15 mil to play with without Fleury coming off the books. They could get most of their offseason agenda done with that amount if they had to. Not ideal, but it's not like they're hard against the cap.
- hardnosed

..Mrazek is a $4mil head case? If you're gonna go the retarded narrative route... Fleury has been more of a head case over his career than Mrazek has in his short time. So Fleury the $5.75mil head case is a better option than the $4mil head case?

I agree with most everyone about Fleury and Vegas. If Vegas doesn't want him or wants us to add something, I'm pretty sure we could trade him for nothing to someone else. No way in hell does claiming Fleury need a "sweetener." Losing Rust would suck but not the end of the world and losing Hags would be fine with his cap hit and term.

Isn't it funny that I brought up trading apparent sacred cow Kessel the other day and people went ballistic. Now RW alludes to it...hmmm...I wonder what he will put forth as a possible scenario...

Here's a fun exercise. Think of the one defenseman (aka "Letang insurance") you would like to have on the Pens, regardless of his situation. Now, would you trade Kessel straight up for him? Does it make the Pens a better team? Of course, such a trade scenario is unrealistic, but the point is you would do it. Well, I'm sure there are some defenseman-heavy teams out there in need of a forward, it's just a matter of finding the right value for both sides.

To borrow a phrase from the Fleury-to-Vegas debate, the Pens need a stud PMD more than they need Kessel.
- T-Train

He's not alluding t o trading Kessel, he's alluding to acquiring Tyler Bozak. The player who centered Kessel's best years in TOR.

I agree with most everyone about Fleury and Vegas. If Vegas doesn't want him or wants us to add something, I'm pretty sure we could trade him for nothing to someone else. No way in hell does claiming Fleury need a "sweetener." Losing Rust would suck but not the end of the world and losing Hags would be fine with his cap hit and term.

Isn't it funny that I brought up trading apparent sacred cow Kessel the other day and people went ballistic. Now RW alludes to it...hmmm...I wonder what he will put forth as a possible scenario...

Here's a fun exercise. Think of the one defenseman (aka "Letang insurance") you would like to have on the Pens, regardless of his situation. Now, would you trade Kessel straight up for him? Does it make the Pens a better team? Of course, such a trade scenario is unrealistic, but the point is you would do it. Well, I'm sure there are some defenseman-heavy teams out there in need of a forward, it's just a matter of finding the right value for both sides.

To borrow a phrase from the Fleury-to-Vegas debate, the Pens need a stud PMD more than they need Kessel.
- T-Train

No. I wouldnt do it.

You honestly think Vegas needs this supposed "face" of the franchise to sell tickets?
- Feds91Stammer

Shhhh... its one of those hockey myths, like needing veteran leadership and grit. Don't let Vegas know they don't need Flower.

Most expansion teams tend to play a defensive, trapping type of game due to not yet having much high-power offense. The Wild played like this for several years after starting. Fleury has never played behind this type of system. The Pens (since the start of the Crosby era) have always played a high risk type of game that puts the goaltender in difficult spots and forces him to make tough saves. It would be very interesting to see him behind a more defense-oriented team. I have a feeling he could even become dominant again.

Las Vegas would be crazy to not take him or to take him and trade him. He can provide stability experience that the younger available goaltenders cannot. McPhee is going to try to put the best team together - not deliberate try to screw over other teams (even the Pens). Fleury is the best goalie available and he probably has at least three solid years left at the NHL level.

As for the Pens, I think their number one concern is to try to find/develop the next Letang. Pouliot was supposed to be that but he is apparently a bust. He was a best ninth on the Pens' defensive depth chart this past Cup run (behind Streit and Ruhwedel). I guess they will need to keep looking. I am not aware of any really promising defensemen on the WBS Pens.

Sprong would have to be included in any Duchene deal, and that scares me off because he'd be such a better value.
- hardnosed

Yea that's true, Thornton passing to Sprong on the other hand could be something.

Yea that's true, Thornton passing to Sprong on the other hand could be something.
- 668710

I'm thinking more jumbo to Kessel.

I'm thinking more jumbo to Kessel.
- j.boyd919

Maybe if he was in his 20's coming off of reconstruction, but not now.

Pass X 10

He's not alluding t o trading Kessel, he's alluding to acquiring Tyler Bozak. The player who centered Kessel's best years in TOR.
- j.boyd919

Ah, you're right - my mistake.

No. I wouldnt do it.
- j.boyd919

So you wouldn't trade Kessel straight up for one of Karlsson, Burns, or Hedman? Or...? You are probably alone in that regard.

So you wouldn't trade Kessel straight up for one of Karlsson, Burns, or Hedman? Or...? You are probably alone in that regard.
- T-Train

None of those are realistic