..Mrazek is a $4mil head case? If you're gonna go the retarded narrative route... Fleury has been more of a head case over his career than Mrazek has in his short time. So Fleury the $5.75mil head case is a better option than the $4mil head case?
- j.boyd919

I know, your fancy stats say they are equal goalies, but they aren't. Your fancy stats also say the Pens had no chance of winning the cup this year...good thing we don't run the game based on fancy stats. Go be a caps fan, so you can hang your analytical banner up.

I'm thinking more jumbo to Kessel.
- j.boyd919

Yea or that haha

So you wouldn't trade Kessel straight up for one of Karlsson, Burns, or Hedman? Or...? You are probably alone in that regard.
- T-Train

That is not realistic.

None of those are realistic
- 668710

That's not the point. The point is, would you trade Kessel (a forward, a strength on the Pens) for a stud PMD (a weakness on the Pens, especially when Letang is injured, which is often).

So instead of Karlsson, Burns, or Hedman, what about the next tier just below elite? It would be realistic and I think it would make the Pens a better, more complete team.

I know, your fancy stats say they are equal goalies, but they aren't. Your fancy stats also say the Pens had no chance of winning the cup this year...good thing we don't run the game based on fancy stats. Go be a caps fan, so you can hang your analytical banner up.
- Thorny

wahhhhh wahhhh wahhhhh

That is not realistic.
- j.boyd919

To quote myself in my original post (which you quoted and bolded), "Of course, such a trade scenario is unrealistic, but the point is you would do it."

That's not the point. The point is, would you trade Kessel (a forward, a strength on the Pens) for a stud PMD (a weakness on the Pens, especially when Letang is injured, which is often).

So instead of Karlsson, Burns, or Hedman, what about the next tier just below elite? It would be realistic and I think it would make the Pens a better, more complete team.
- T-Train

I would put Shattenkirk in that next tier, so I'd just sign him instead because he doesn't cost assets.

To quote myself in my original post (which you quoted and bolded), "Of course, such a trade scenario is unrealistic, but the point is you would do it."
- T-Train

Ok yes, I would trade Kessel for Hedman, Burns, or Karlsson. But the next tier? Just sign Shattenkirk. No need to give up Kessel when a player in that next tier is available.

..Mrazek is a $4mil head case? If you're gonna go the retarded narrative route... Fleury has been more of a head case over his career than Mrazek has in his short time. So Fleury the $5.75mil head case is a better option than the $4mil head case?
- j.boyd919

Yeah, Fleury looked like a head case in beating the BJ's and Caps when it mattered most.

And "retarded" is a horrible, horrible word. My 12 year old nephew has had to hear that word throughout his life because of brain cancer and other issues that have drastically set back his development.

Your fancy stats also say the Pens had no chance of winning the cup this year...good thing we don't run the game based on fancy stats.
- Thorny

It's almost like the fancy stats club is peeved that this version of the Penguins won it all. That's why we got 6 hours of a celebration thread here and then all the sudden it was shifted to Fleury waiving his NMC. Pathetic. The Cup killed fancy stats as they pertain to the Penguins.

Most expansion teams tend to play a defensive, trapping type of game due to not yet having much high-power offense. The Wild played like this for several years after starting. Fleury has never played behind this type of system. The Pens (since the start of the Crosby era) have always played a high risk type of game that puts the goaltender in difficult spots and forces him to make tough saves. It would be very interesting to see him behind a more defense-oriented team. I have a feeling he could even become dominant again.

Las Vegas would be crazy to not take him or to take him and trade him. He can provide stability experience that the younger available goaltenders cannot. McPhee is going to try to put the best team together - not deliberate try to screw over other teams (even the Pens). Fleury is the best goalie available and he probably has at least three solid years left at the NHL level.

As for the Pens, I think their number one concern is to try to find/develop the next Letang. Pouliot was supposed to be that but he is apparently a bust. He was a best ninth on the Pens' defensive depth chart this past Cup run (behind Streit and Ruhwedel). I guess they will need to keep looking. I am not aware of any really promising defensemen on the WBS Pens.
- PghPens668771

Agree with most of it, but this Vegas team could put out a top scoring line of Neal, Ryan and that center from Florida.....can't remember his name and don't feel like looking. If the Russian center pans out they may have a decent offensive attack. Especially with the puck moving D that are available. Some decent wingers in Stempniak, Camaleiri (though aging) Dano (if he puts it together) and can absolutely move d prospects for others.

Ok yes, I would trade Kessel for Hedman, Burns, or Karlsson. But the next tier? Just sign Shattenkirk. No need to give up Kessel when a player in that next tier is available.
- j.boyd919

Except that he sucks defensively but will be getting paid like he can play defense. I did say "stud." Shattenkirk is the new Yandle. No thanks.

Yeah, Fleury looked like a head case in beating the BJ's and Caps when it mattered most.

And "retarded" is a horrible, horrible word. My 12 year old nephew has had to hear that word throughout his life because of brain cancer and other issues that have drastically set back his development.
- hardnosed

Right. But what about those other playoff series where he couldn't stop a beach ball and started seeing a sports shrink?

Retarded is a word that means underdeveloped. I didn't use it incorrectly, calling a player a head case based on a false media narrative is in fact a retarded narrative, it's an underdeveloped one, unless you are his sports shrink, have access to his medical records, or anything of the sort, then I will retract my statement, but as it stands, I didn't use the word incorrectly, I used it to describe an underdeveloped narrative.

That's not the point. The point is, would you trade Kessel (a forward, a strength on the Pens) for a stud PMD (a weakness on the Pens, especially when Letang is injured, which is often).

So instead of Karlsson, Burns, or Hedman, what about the next tier just below elite? It would be realistic and I think it would make the Pens a better, more complete team.
- T-Train

No, because when healthy the Pens top 4 is fine. Top 5 even. The Pens have cap space for 1 6 million and up dman. And you can get a young dman to take that number 6 spot for less than 2 million.

Except that he sucks defensively but will be getting paid like he can play defense. I did say "stud." Shattenkirk is the new Yandle. No thanks.
- T-Train

Yeah, but he doesn't suck defensively. That's a broad misconception. The same one that Letang and Karlsson has to deal with most of their careers.

It's almost like the fancy stats club is peeved that this version of the Penguins won it all. That's why we got 6 hours of a celebration thread here and then all the sudden it was shifted to Fleury waiving his NMC. Pathetic. The Cup killed fancy stats as they pertain to the Penguins.
- hardnosed

Not really.

Yeah, Fleury looked like a head case in beating the BJ's and Caps when it mattered most.

And "retarded" is a horrible, horrible word. My 12 year old nephew has had to hear that word throughout his life because of brain cancer and other issues that have drastically set back his development.
- hardnosed

Good post.

wahhhhh wahhhh wahhhhh
- j.boyd919

Or just go stand in the corner till someone gives a $hit what you think. Take a snack, you're gonna be there for a long time.

If in fact Vegas does get Vatanen. I would offer them Hornqvist, who has an expiring contract that they would love to have, and a 1st round pick for Vatanen. He is exactly the type of defenseman that we need. The cap hit would only be just over $600K and it would give us a real solid 6 defensemen assuming we sign Schultz and Dumoulin. Letang, Vatanen, Dumoulin, Maatta, Cole, Schultz. At that point we can sign a couple other guys on the cheap to round out our defense corps. Ruhwedel would be a perfect #7 in my opinion, and if we can get Hainsey cheap it would be worth it too.

That's not the point. The point is, would you trade Kessel (a forward, a strength on the Pens) for a stud PMD (a weakness on the Pens, especially when Letang is injured, which is often).

So instead of Karlsson, Burns, or Hedman, what about the next tier just below elite? It would be realistic and I think it would make the Pens a better, more complete team.
- T-Train

I personally wouldn't. The pens, throughout the Crosby Malkin era the Pens have searched for top tier wingers. I don't get rid of one of the best.

Or just go stand in the corner till someone gives a $hit what you think. Take a snack, you're gonna be there for a long time.
- Dcoms

Hey moron. How ya been?

Yeah, but he doesn't suck defensively. That's a broad misconception. The same one that Letang and Karlsson has to deal with most of their careers.
- j.boyd919

Nah, I've seen him play - he routinely gets schooled, even in sheltered roles. Has he ever played on the top line? Hmmm...I wonder why not? St. Louis, a Cup contender, was willing to trade him for not much at the deadline. That should tell you something.

I personally wouldn't. The pens, throughout the Crosby Malkin era the Pens have searched for top tier wingers. I don't get rid of one of the best.
- cranktheradio

Fair enough. I disagree, but I can see both sides of it.

If in fact Vegas does get Vatanen. I would offer them Hornqvist, who has an expiring contract that they would love to have, and a 1st round pick for Vatanen. He is exactly the type of defenseman that we need. The cap hit would only be just over $600K and it would give us a real solid 6 defensemen assuming we sign Schultz and Dumoulin. Letang, Vatanen, Dumoulin, Maatta, Cole, Schultz. At that point we can sign a couple other guys on the cheap to round out our defense corps. Ruhwedel would be a perfect #7 in my opinion, and if we can get Hainsey cheap it would be worth it too.
- maddog216

I can't disagree with this. That would possibly give the nights Ryan, Neal, Hornquist and Stempniak as top 6 wingers.... Maybe Camaleiri. I'd much rather lose PH than Kessel.

I personally wouldn't. The pens, throughout the Crosby Malkin era the Pens have searched for top tier wingers. I don't get rid of one of the best.
- cranktheradio

Yep. There's better options out there.

Shatty should be no. 1

I wouldn't really hate Markov at 1 year if it was at the right price. His shot suppression kinda leaves to be desired though. And he's a lefty, so I dunno if he plays the right side.

Franson should be an option. Him on the 3rd period would be solid.

Those are really the only D worth a damn in FA... I think any other option would be acquired by trade and I'd rather not go down that path.