Landeskog had 30 ish pts last year, in 72 games, and makes almost 6 mil........I don't think his value is what you think it is
- sensarmy_11

You guys don't deserve any player of talent if thats how you look at them.

The worst team in the cap era and you get fixated on oh they didn't score as many goals or have as many points as the year before. Yet Landeskog is known for way more assets of his game than just "scoring"

Well no poop, they were a dumpster fire, if they were scoring as they normally do they wouldnt have been last place or in the place they are now.

However offense is down but landeskog and duchene still did what they are good at. Landeskog still was a strong defensive 2 way player and Duchene was one of the better face-off men in the league while scoring was done.

Honestly man you don't trade for guys bc of 40 some games of down scoring. Avs are not moving them based on that value, they will only move someone based on who they are as a player and not a bad season in which their offense suffered.

Thats why there are scouts, analytic departments etc etc in this league and not just GMs looking up hockeydb and seeing their stat lines.

Ceci probably gets your Grigorenko, not Duchene or Landeskog. Dont be dumb kid
- DDM-Coga

- wilkobecks

over exaggerating but lets be honest here. What is Cody Ceci. He is a big Dman who gets a lot of ice time that doesnt produce offense, isn't physical, has sub par controlled zone entries and exits, isn't a shot generator and isn't a shot suppressor.

So what is Cody Ceci, he is a ticking time bomb on the ice of getting burnt bc he brings 0 impact and is just treading water on the 2nd pairing. Hes not good

You guys don't deserve any player of talent if thats how you look at them.

The worst team in the cap era and you get fixated on oh they didn't score as many goals or have as many points as the year before. Yet Landeskog is known for way more assets of his game than just "scoring"

Well no poop, they were a dumpster fire, if they were scoring as they normally do they wouldnt have been last place or in the place they are now.

However offense is down but landeskog and duchene still did what they are good at. Landeskog still was a strong defensive 2 way player and Duchene was one of the better face-off men in the league while scoring was done.

Honestly man you don't trade for guys bc of 40 some games of down scoring. Avs are not moving them based on that value, they will only move someone based on who they are as a player and not a bad season in which their offense suffered.

Thats why there are scouts, analytic departments etc etc in this league and not just GMs looking up hockeydb and seeing their stat lines.
- DDM-Coga

Nobody is going to pay top dollar for a guy who's production has declined 4 straight years and who now produces at a 3rd line pace.......and if you think he'll get close to what buddy suggested ( Ceci, white, 1st) then you're incredibly naive. No matter what you think, that kind of negative production has a huge impact on trade value, especially when's he makes nearly 6 mil

You guys don't deserve any player of talent if thats how you look at them.

The worst team in the cap era and you get fixated on oh they didn't score as many goals or have as many points as the year before. Yet Landeskog is known for way more assets of his game than just "scoring"

Well no poop, they were a dumpster fire, if they were scoring as they normally do they wouldnt have been last place or in the place they are now.

However offense is down but landeskog and duchene still did what they are good at. Landeskog still was a strong defensive 2 way player and Duchene was one of the better face-off men in the league while scoring was done.

Honestly man you don't trade for guys bc of 40 some games of down scoring. Avs are not moving them based on that value, they will only move someone based on who they are as a player and not a bad season in which their offense suffered.

Thats why there are scouts, analytic departments etc etc in this league and not just GMs looking up hockeydb and seeing their stat lines.
- DDM-Coga

To be fair, that's what the Oilers and Oilers fans said for years

Nobody is going to pay top dollar for a guy who's production has declined 4 straight years and who now produces at a 3rd line pace.......and if you think he'll get close to what buddy suggested ( Ceci, white, 1st) then you're incredibly naive. No matter what you think, that kind of negative production has a huge impact on trade value, especially when's he makes nearly 6 mil
- sensarmy_11

Landeskog isn't on the move anyways, so its a dumb argument to have. You can think hes over rated like how I think Ceci is beyond overrated to the point of borderline incompetent on ice

When sens fans on debating leaving ceci unprotected for the draft.....I would assume he has very low value if part of his own fan base don't even think hes worth keeping around over 4 other guys

over exaggerating but lets be honest here. What is Cody Ceci. He is a big Dman who gets a lot of ice time that doesnt produce offense, isn't physical, has sub par controlled zone entries and exits, isn't a shot generator and isn't a shot suppressor.

So what is Cody Ceci, he is a ticking time bomb on the ice of getting burnt bc he brings 0 impact and is just treading water on the 2nd pairing. Hes not good
- DDM-Coga

He's been pressed into less-than-favourable matchups with Phaneuf this past season so his offense took a hit. However, in his two years prior to that, he produced 0.89 P/60 at even strength (good for 44th among NHL Dmen during that time). That's equal to or more than guys like Keith, OEL and Doughty.

He hasn't produced great results possession-wise but the argument could be made that that's as much a result of spending his entire career being coached by guys who don't value such metrics and being tasked with "matchup duty". The exception to that being his rookie year under MacLean where he actually fared quite well (51% FF, solid GF v GA in a 3rd pairing role).

If he got even close to the PP time his pedigree suggests he's capable of, then I think we'd have a different picture of the player. But alas, he's stuck on non-Corsi driven coaches and behind the greatest offensive Dman of this generation so we don't know for sure.

Landeskog isn't on the move anyways, so its a dumb argument to have. You can think hes over rated like how I think Ceci is beyond overrated to the point of borderline incompetent on ice

When sens fans on debating leaving ceci unprotected for the draft.....I would assume he has very low value if part of his own fan base don't even think hes worth keeping around over 4 other guys
- DDM-Coga

They'd only be debating it over two other guys: Karlsson and Methot. With their forward depth they're going the 7-3-1 route.

They'd only be debating it over two other guys: Karlsson and Methot. With their forward depth they're going the 7-3-1 route.
- MaximumBone

Wideman and Claesson are the names that keep on popping up that they would rather keep over Ceci

He's been pressed into less-than-favourable matchups with Phaneuf this past season so his offense took a hit. However, in his two years prior to that, he produced 0.89 P/60 at even strength (good for 44th among NHL Dmen during that time). That's equal to or more than guys like Keith, OEL and Doughty.

He hasn't produced great results possession-wise but the argument could be made that that's as much a result of spending his entire career being coached by guys who don't value such metrics and being tasked with "matchup duty". The exception to that being his rookie year under MacLean where he actually fared quite well (51% FF, solid GF v GA in a 3rd pairing role).

If he got even close to the PP time his pedigree suggests he's capable of, then I think we'd have a different picture of the player. But alas, he's stuck on non-Corsi driven coaches and behind the greatest offensive Dman of this generation so we don't know for sure.
- MaximumBone

hes also 250+ games into his NHL career. The NHL light 9 times out of 10 doesn't turn on after this threshold. He is more likely than not is what he is now and won't be going to be getting drastically better if he becomes better at all from this point forward.

Like I said is is the definition of average to the point of better suited to be a 3rd pairing guy on a good team vs a 2nd pairing guy on a bad team

just bc one GM made a bad trade doesnt mean thats the market.

Seth Jones and Ryan Johanson also happened.
Drouin for Sergechev just happened.
There are more of these trades than Hall for Larsson

Ceci is a 3rd pairing Dman and Duchene is a Top 6, and on many teams a top line talent.

Lets not pretend Ceci can get you that
- DDM-Coga

Fair points, but Ceci is not a 3rd pairing D-man

I think it's safe to say Ceci is a 2nd pairing guy. He seems sorely miscast as a shutdown guy in Ottawa. Being tasked with facing top competition while not get much consistent PP time certainly hasn't helped.
- MaximumBone

That's a very good point Bone.

Landy would cost you Ceci,1st, white at least in some form and unless sens take 3/4 million Phaneuf has zero value! Imho and I've never came in to troll,so this isn't one either! but good luck with the expansion draft!
- MR.Hunter

I think in all honestly that Ceci, Dzingel, and a 1st is close to landeskog's value. Do I think COL wins, no. I likely would want something else. Ideally you ask for White but if that's the case, I'm going for Duchene with the above package.

Fair points, but Ceci is not a 3rd pairing D-man
That's a very good point Bone.
I think in all honestly that Ceci, Dzingel, and a 1st is close to landeskog's value. Do I think COL wins, no. I likely would want something else. Ideally you ask for White but if that's the case, I'm going for Duchene with the above package.
- AlfieisKing

No its not. Already discussed Ceci, a late 1st and a late blooming rookie who is a bottom 6 player does not scream good package. Its a bunch of stuff that the Avs can live without. Nothing about that replaces what Landeskog brings to the Avs...and all you guys can bring up his offensive production, unless you watch him, you don't understand how important he is to the Avs top 6 as their best defensive 2 way fwd

Landeskog means more to the team than Duchene, they aren't moving him for a bunch of scraps

I wouldn't waste a trade for Landeskog unless it was dirt cheap. Trading with the Avs i'd be looking at only two players, Duchene or Barrie. Ceci alone isn't going to get either and giving up Chabot or White isn't worth it.

I think this is just a rumor and nothing more.

I wouldn't waste a trade for Landeskog unless it was dirt cheap. Trading with the Avs i'd be looking at only two players, Duchene or Barrie. Ceci alone isn't going to get either and giving up Chabot or White isn't worth it.

I think this is just a rumor and nothing more.
- Maverick1818

Ceci doesnt even move the needle. I know I have been harping on him but honestly when waiver wire pick up Mark Barbeio has a comparable to arguably better season than Ceci....I don't think he has much of a leg to stand on.

Guys like him still are good on teams but they are a dime a dozen and aren't the centre pieces to any trade, they are the warm body throw ins

damn the fat kid is salty. just wow.

damn the fat kid is salty. just wow.
- sensmelon

normally I wouldnt be this much of an ass but AlfiesSalad is my nemesis. If he brings up the Avs in a trade...I have to beat him down. Its just HockeyBuzz fight club law

He better keep my team off his lips or put some respek on their name

normally I wouldnt be this much of an ass but AlfiesSalad is my nemesis. If he brings up the Avs in a trade...I have to beat him down. Its just HockeyBuzz fight club law

He better keep my team off his lips or put some respek on their name
- DDM-Coga

No its not. Already discussed Ceci, a late 1st and a late blooming rookie who is a bottom 6 player does not scream good package. Its a bunch of stuff that the Avs can live without. Nothing about that replaces what Landeskog brings to the Avs...and all you guys can bring up his offensive production, unless you watch him, you don't understand how important he is to the Avs top 6 as their best defensive 2 way fwd

Landeskog means more to the team than Duchene, they aren't moving him for a bunch of scraps
- DDM-Coga

I'll tell you what, Cody Ceci struggled this year, no question, he also has lived up to his offensive upside that many people saw in him. The fact is he's never really found that spark but he has the speed and skating ability but his hockey IQ is lacking at times. I agree with you that he is certainly not a centerpiece and Duchene would atleast take a White or Chabot. If Landeskog is on the table - solid 2-way, CAPTAIN, Sweede, 24 years old - then I'm very interested but I'm going to hold onto Chabot. I think Dzingel has a chance to be a solid 3rd line potential 2nd line scorer but it's a stretch. Although I thought the same from Hoffman.

I'll say something happens today - and something tells me it's to Ottawa or the east atleast, maybe islanders

Ceci doesnt even move the needle. I know I have been harping on him but honestly when waiver wire pick up Mark Barbeio has a comparable to arguably better season than Ceci....I don't think he has much of a leg to stand on.
- DDM-Coga

Yet the rumours persist that it's specifically Ceci and Landeskog involved in the discussion. Clearly there would be more parts involved if such a deal were actually to manifest, but it really doesn't matter how many times you blather on about your dislike of Ceci... or pretend that when the players on your team have objectively terrible seasons it's irrelevant because of how "special" they are, but when players on other teams have lesser years they're immediately worth slightly less than two moist pieces of $hit.

The Drouin deal set a pretty fair benchmark for relative value... where it actually wasn't a blue chip prospect, solid young roster player, and 1st round pick going the other way. Not to mention that by the logic you've demonstrated in your Barberio example, Dzingel had a comparable season to Landeskog. So maybe a deal like Ceci/Brown isn't nearly as far off of the mark as you think.

As an aside, if they do trade Ceci does anyone else think they might take a run at Michael Stone as a replacement #2 RHD? I don't think there's any chance that Wideman is ready for that role, and the opportunity for the Stone brothers to play together might give them an inside track on signing him.

I def would like to see Ceci/Brown OR white for a Duchene and see them sign a stone as mentioned above (good point). Harpur really impressed me and also Chabot is coming

Ceci doesnt even move the needle. I know I have been harping on him but honestly when waiver wire pick up Mark Barbeio has a comparable to arguably better season than Ceci....I don't think he has much of a leg to stand on.

Guys like him still are good on teams but they are a dime a dozen and aren't the centre pieces to any trade, they are the warm body throw ins
- DDM-Coga

Ceci had not such a great year. True. He's dangerously close to being in Curtis Lazar territory. A young guy with loads of potential and some trade value, but you hold on to him for too long and he doesn't improve, you're kinda stuck.

Landescog didn't have a great year either. I know you have admitted that, but you have provided more excuses than Ceci, for sure.

I don't think Ceci and Landescog gets done straight up at all. Landescog has more value. That said, I wouldn't really want to touch him, unless we lose a guy like Ryan somehow. He isn't anything we don't already have. I'd like to see a move for a guy with more natural scoring talent. A guy that you can rely on the powerplay as that was a huge issue in the playoffs.

If you trade Ceci for a forward, you can still find a second pairing dman via free agency later (if you lose Claesson)... Try for Shattenkirk, and if you miss out on him, look at Kulikov or Del Zotto or Franson etc. It wouldn't be the end of the world
- nucks_94

Not many 2nd pairing caliber Dmen available in free agency and they will be very expensive.

Ceci had not such a great year. True. He's dangerously close to being in Curtis Lazar territory. A young guy with loads of potential and some trade value, but you hold on to him for too long and he doesn't improve, you're kinda stuck.

Landescog didn't have a great year either. I know you have admitted that, but you have provided more excuses than Ceci, for sure.

I don't think Ceci and Landescog gets done straight up at all. Landescog has more value. That said, I wouldn't really want to touch him, unless we lose a guy like Ryan somehow. He isn't anything we don't already have. I'd like to see a move for a guy with more natural scoring talent. A guy that you can rely on the powerplay as that was a huge issue in the playoffs.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I think Landeskog would be a very good fit on the Sens. They do have to watch the internal budget though, even at a home-town discount, Karlsson is 9+ and probably 10+ on the open market.

I think Landeskog would be a very good fit on the Sens. They do have to watch the internal budget though, even at a home-town discount, Karlsson is 9+ and probably 10+ on the open market.
- Aetherial

Ryan is our overpriced winger. If the Sens lose him in the expansion draft, then Landescog makes quite a bit of sense. But with the roster as it is, he just adds depth (at a significant price. Ie more than just Ceci). Not a bad thing, but it's not what knock them out of the playoffs.

Not having a reliable and consistent star forward to rely on is what sets this team back. Granted it's hard to get that type of player, but it's a need. Landescog isn't that.

Ceci doesnt even move the needle. I know I have been harping on him but honestly when waiver wire pick up Mark Barbeio has a comparable to arguably better season than Ceci....I don't think he has much of a leg to stand on.

Guys like him still are good on teams but they are a dime a dozen and aren't the centre pieces to any trade, they are the warm body throw ins
- DDM-Coga

Not that I care, because I don't think either Landy or Ceci are exactly hot poop, but if your assessment of Ceci is based on last season, then I don't see why people's assessments of Landy shouldn't be too.

Having a terrible season has a negative effect on value, even if players are as young as Ceci and Landy

Not that I care, because I don't think either Landy or Ceci are exactly hot poop, but if your assessment of Ceci is based on last season, then I don't see why people's assessments of Landy shouldn't be too.

Having a terrible season has a negative effect on value, even if players are as young as Ceci and Landy
- Mr_Clean

Fair point however I don't think Ceci even had a strong season. His 2015-16 season was considered his best and it was beyond average. He had worse metrics, just produced a few more goals. That "good season" of his, he still had terrible shot generation and shot suppression.

In every season Ceci has had, I have yet to really see one that was wow there are some great underlying numbers here. He scored 10 goals, thats about it

Im not saying that he is useless (well I did but that was to be a Richard to AlfiesSalad) but hes just average...there are lots of guys like him. Ryan Murray, Olli Maatta, Nathan Beaulieu...they are decent young defenders however they probably are as good as they ever will be, they are easy to trade for and sign as a UFA but bc these guys were drafted at a high draft stock and a bigger prospect name coming up, there is inflated perception of what they can do bc of "pedigree"....the proofs in the pudding and after 250-300 NHL games under their belt. They are what they are