Comparing Dumo to Staal/Girardi is a horribly apples & oranges comparison. The only thing comparable is their minutes & points. Their actual ability to play hockey aren't even on the same planet. Dumo can skate & shut guys down & play the system. Staal & Girardi are worn down pylons who can barely skate at this point. Wear & tear & being nothing but pylons at this pointare the reasons Staal & Girardi are garbage contracts. Not their point production or minutes.
- ScienceJesus

Yes comparing Dumo right now to 2017 Staal/Girardi right now is apples to oranges. But comparing Dumo right now to Staal/Girardi of 5 years ago is VERY comparable. I think you missed my point.

My point was don't pay a premium for guys that don't produce. When you do that, and then they don't produce and when they get wear and tear of being a shutdown defensemen, they turn int Brooks Orpik, Dan Girardi, and Marc Staal. They become players of no value and they become a burden (Player AND contract). To avoid that, you don't pay for a lack of production, or a "role." That is how you fall into those traps of getting stuck with useless players because you paid for his shutdown ability that's all and gone now. (Not saying he's going to suck next year or even 3 years from now.) I'm just saying that overpaying for a lack of production because of "role" just seems like a very bad idea.

For all those flinging contract numbers around, just remember guys will take home town discounts to STAY in Pittsburgh. Schultz has come out and said he WANTS to stay in Pitt, which also means "I will not price myself out of a contract" for a team I want to play for.

The guys are coming off back to back championships, many will take less money to stay and try for more championships. I also see a few UFA's wanting to come to a winning environment and playing with the Pens. I can see Giradi making a nice 3rd d pairing at a very discounted price.

It is my belief that the Pens 2017/18 roster could very well field their best line-up of the last 3 years and go for the 3-peat.
- Darklight11

Absolutely not. Girardi is (frank)ing trash bud.

I don't think you're getting Smith under 4M either. Even then I'd replace Maatta first.

Dumoulin is largely a shot suppression guy who eats big minutes ideally alongside a more puck moving defenseman. I know we disagree on the value of those guys and you have no use for them. Fairly certain he's not being moved though and would rather just talk about what we can add so just gonna agree to disagree.
- Tojo.

Not even being a Richard here, can you find me comparable players/contracts that you would say are in the Dumo range of production/role/ice time?

I think that's how GMs make mistakes, letting the market dictate things too much because you should absolutely be able to use production as an indicator on contract value. I like Dumo, and think he's solid, but (frank).. we can just replace Dumo with Brendan Smith cheaper, and it would probably be an improvement.


- j.boyd919

Is he going to be available? I thought I heard a rumor he wanted to go back to Detroit after? I'd be down if he's available. He made just over 2 last year correct?

Is he going to be available? I thought I heard a rumor he wanted to go back to Detroit after? I'd be down if he's available. He made just over 2 last year correct?
- Thorny87

Not sure, I don't remember hearing anything about him going back to DET but he is a UFA, and I think he's perfect for the Pens 2nd pairing. And I can't see ANYTHING in his game that says he should get 4+ million.

2.75m was his cap hit last 2 years.

4M seems like the price for a young top 4 defenseman these days. This is actually Dumoulin's third contract, he's arbitration eligible, and the Sharks got Vlasic's deal done early and almost 9 years ago so it's not a good comparable. Maybe it gets done under 4M but probably not by much and likely only if he's taking a discount.

Sheary is really hard to figure, but he does have arbitration rights.

Largely I'm being conservative. I think a lot of numbers being thrown around are optimistic.
- Tojo.

Dumoulin would not fair well in arbitration. He doesn't produce any points and isn't a classic crease clearing big hits guy. He's a solid top 4 guy, but his brand of player is not valued very highly.

Dumoulin also had a down year this year and really proved he can't be "the guy" on a pairing. He's a second fiddle, a good one, but a second fiddle never the less and will go as his partner goes.

Dumoulin gets just above 3 mil on a two to three year bridge. I agree with Boyd. If he gets 4 mil AAV long term, I won't be happy.

Not sure, I don't remember hearing anything about him going back to DET but he is a UFA, and I think he's perfect for the Pens 2nd pairing. And I can't see ANYTHING in his game that says he should get 4+ million.

2.75m was his cap hit last 2 years.
- j.boyd919

There would be absolutely nothing wrong with signing Brendan Smith in free agency. I still prefer to look at trade options to bring a legit #2 guy, but Smith is a great target, especially if we send Maatta or Dumoulin the other way in whatever trade JR comes up with.

Given our forward depth, I wonder if Calgary would be dumb enough to work something out for T.J. Brodie involving one of Maatta or Dumoulin, one of our top 6 forwards not named Guentzel or Kessel, and a first. If I was Calgary I wouldn't do the trade, but you never know with NHL GMs.

There would be absolutely nothing wrong with signing Brendan Smith in free agency. I still prefer to look at trade options to bring a legit #2 guy, but Smith is a great target, especially if we send Maatta or Dumoulin the other way in whatever trade JR comes up with.

Given our forward depth, I wonder if Calgary would be dumb enough to work something out for T.J. Brodie involving one of Maatta or Dumoulin, one of our top 6 forwards not named Guentzel or Kessel, and a first. If I was Calgary I wouldn't do the trade, but you never know with NHL GMs.
- Victoro311

Seeing Maatta trashed at the parade makes me want to keep him lol

Seeing Maatta trashed at the parade makes me want to keep him lol
- j.boyd919

I've always wanted to keep him and if he's still on the team next year and not paired with Trevor Daley I am personally guaranteeing a bounce back year. But we really need a legit #2 guy and if it take Olli Maatta, then it takes Olli Maatta.

Not even being a Richard here, can you find me comparable players/contracts that you would say are in the Dumo range of production/role/ice time?
- j.boyd919

Might not nail exact role but:
Deykeyser 5M (12 points this year, 20 year before), Tanev 4.45M, Savard 4.25, Emilin 4.1M, Maatta 4M 7 pts., Scandella 4M, Stone 4M, Conner Murphy 3.85M, Braun 3.8M

Yes comparing Dumo right now to 2017 Staal/Girardi right now is apples to oranges. But comparing Dumo right now to Staal/Girardi of 5 years ago is VERY comparable. I think you missed my point.

My point was don't pay a premium for guys that don't produce. When you do that, and then they don't produce and when they get wear and tear of being a shutdown defensemen, they turn int Brooks Orpik, Dan Girardi, and Marc Staal. They become players of no value and they become a burden (Player AND contract). To avoid that, you don't pay for a lack of production, or a "role." That is how you fall into those traps of getting stuck with useless players because you paid for his shutdown ability that's all and gone now. (Not saying he's going to suck next year or even 3 years from now.) I'm just saying that overpaying for a lack of production because of "role" just seems like a very bad idea.
- j.boyd919

Dumoulin would not fair well in arbitration. He doesn't produce any points and isn't a classic crease clearing big hits guy. He's a solid top 4 guy, but his brand of player is not valued very highly.

Dumoulin also had a down year this year and really proved he can't be "the guy" on a pairing. He's a second fiddle, a good one, but a second fiddle never the less and will go as his partner goes.

Dumoulin gets just above 3 mil on a two to three year bridge. I agree with Boyd. If he gets 4 mil AAV long term, I won't be happy.
- Victoro311

Agree on assessment of player, disagree on what that's worth. Largely because bridge deal is not an option as he is only 2 years from UFA status. All I think will matter is he plays against the top lines every night on the best team in the league.

If he was a guy that could lead the pairing, that's a 5M+ guy. Hopefully they get him at a little less, but I think if they wanted to get him closer to 3M they should have done it last year.

I do agree he's not an ideal top pairing guy, more of a second pair guy. But you can't exactly go to arbitration and say he only plays there because we have nobody better.

Agree on assessment of player, disagree on what that's worth. Largely because bridge deal is not an option as he is only 2 years from UFA status. All I think will matter is he plays against the top lines every night on the best team in the league.

If he was a guy that could lead the pairing, that's a 5M+ guy. Hopefully they get him at a little less, but I think if they wanted to get him closer to 3M they should have done it last year.

I do agree he's not an ideal top pairing guy, more of a second pair guy. But you can't exactly go to arbitration and say he only plays there because we have nobody better.
- Tojo.

No but you can say he plays there and doesn't produce like a top pairing dman.

All kinds of trade rumors circulating on the Hawks blog. Hjalmarsson included.

Dumb.

Hagelin had a broken Fibula that never healed correctly. that will slow you down a few steps........

The injuries coming out of interviews today are nuts.
- cap1681

That would explain why he didn't look himself when he came back. However, in that last game he was absolutely flying out there.

Dumo was a guy this past season who I thought would take that next step. He didn't. I was disappointed in his play. However, I would like to see him locked up obviously. I agree with the contract numbers that you guys are throwing out for him on this next contract.

No but you can say he plays there and doesn't produce like a top pairing dman.
- j.boyd919

If he did, we'd be talking about a much higher salary than 3 or 4M.

We'll see what happens. Hopefully he gets a number closer to what you said than mine. Then we can revisit if he's worth it or not.

Torn hammy for Murray before the playoffs started.

Dumo was a guy this past season who I thought would take that next step. He didn't. I was disappointed in his play. However, I would like to see him locked up obviously. I agree with the contract numbers that you guys are throwing out for him on this next contract.
- acdc1206

Y'all are crazy. He and Schultz held that blueline together for 4 rounds of playoffs. Dumo is worth $4M, Maatta is not.

Dumo was a guy this past season who I thought would take that next step. He didn't. I was disappointed in his play. However, I would like to see him locked up obviously. I agree with the contract numbers that you guys are throwing out for him on this next contract.
- acdc1206

Yeah I don't want him gone by any means, I just don't want him overpaid. Those were the mistakes that doomed Shero's rosters, and I really don't wanna see GMJR make those same mistakes.

Y'all are crazy. He and Schultz held that blueline together for 4 rounds of playoffs. Dumo is worth $4M, Maatta is not.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I don't think Dumo or Maatta is worth 4mil.

Might not nail exact role but:
Deykeyser 5M (12 points this year, 20 year before), Tanev 4.45M, Savard 4.25, Emilin 4.1M, Maatta 4M 7 pts., Scandella 4M, Stone 4M, Conner Murphy 3.85M, Braun 3.8M
- Tojo.

Ask Feds what he thinks about that Dekeyser contract lol A lot of those players are players the fans want to get rid of.. Tanev, Dekeyser, Maatta, Murphy... they're all players that hamstring the team because of their not so great contracts that match their not amazing (but okay/good) play. I don't want to get rid of Dumo by any means, but I am just worried they overpay him and fall into the same trap that those teams above did.

Y'all are crazy. He and Schultz held that blueline together for 4 rounds of playoffs. Dumo is worth $4M, Maatta is not.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

In no way do I believe that a guy who finished the season 7th in scoring among Dmen and a guy that finished 120th in scoring among Dmen are ANYWHERE close to being worth the same amount of money.

Schultz also at a +23 goal differential at 5v5 (71 GF, 48 GA) while Dumo had a -5 goal differential at 5v5 (48 GF, 53 GA). If their contracts are anywhere in the same ballpark, it's a bad move by GMJR.

Y'all are crazy. He and Schultz held that blueline together for 4 rounds of playoffs. Dumo is worth $4M, Maatta is not.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I was disappointed in his play during the regular season. In the playoffs he was tied to Hainsey which would suck for any defenseman but was better ind the postseason. I like Dumo more than Maatta and I agree that Maatta isn't worth that much.