I'm going to be pissed him Dumolin makes 4M.

3.25 at the most. Marc-Edward Vlasic is a MUCH better version of Brian Dumoulin and his first contract as an RDA was 3.10M for 3 years.

I'm hoping Schultz is closer to 4mil, and Sheary from 2.75-3mil. Palat & Johnson in Tampa for 3yr/3.33mil on their first contract after their ELCs. I would aim for something similar to that for Sheary, hopefully.
- j.boyd919

4M seems like the price for a young top 4 defenseman these days. This is actually Dumoulin's third contract, he's arbitration eligible, and the Sharks got Vlasic's deal done early and almost 9 years ago so it's not a good comparable. Maybe it gets done under 4M but probably not by much and likely only if he's taking a discount.

Sheary is really hard to figure, but he does have arbitration rights.

Largely I'm being conservative. I think a lot of numbers being thrown around are optimistic.

I'm sure Sam could help out with the numbers.
- Feds91Stammer

True.

Graovac was traded Wednesday from Wild to Caps. The 24-year-old forward dressed for 52 contests with the Wild last season, notching nine points (seven goals, two assists). The big-bodied forward also supplied 54 hits over that span while averaging 9:50 of ice time. Graovac figures to provide the Capitals with a physical presence. He has a history of some offensive success at the AHL level.

Looks like Caps are sticking with the big physical players. Hopefully, the NHL either enforces the rules or changes the rules to reduce the hits to the head and allows skill to be the primary attraction to the sport. If this happened, I believe the Caps would end up Closer to the middle of the standings!
- so_buzz11

They basically just needed a warm body to expose as they were below the limit. Don't read much into it.

Yeah I dont see Dums getting much more than 3...probably a 2 year bridge deal around 3. Schultz will be around 5 I imagine though Im hoping for around 4.5 at most. Sheary will get something similar to those Dupuis and Kunitz (Crosby's wingers when they signed) contracts but lower because he is RFA... I'm thinking low 3's for two years.

Im wondering who the Pens numbers guy is now for all of these issues coming up now that Botterill is gone...hoping they dont mess sh!t up...
- MattStrat

Bridge deals are usually done on second contracts. This is actually Dumoulin's third, the contract he was in actually was his bridge deal. He's also only 2 years from UFA status. So I'd expect a longer deal and a higher average because they will be buying some UFA years.

4M seems like the price for a young top 4 defenseman these days. This is actually Dumoulin's third contract, he's arbitration eligible, and the Sharks got Vlasic's deal done early and almost 9 years ago so it's not a good comparable. Maybe it gets done under 4M but probably not by much and likely only if he's taking a discount.

Sheary is really hard to figure, but he does have arbitration rights.

Largely I'm being conservative. I think a lot of numbers being thrown around are optimistic.
- Tojo.

4 million dolars for 15 points a season.. I don't want anything to do with that. That's awful value.

Dreger tweeting Buffalo didn't reach out to Tocchet after all for their head coaching job.

Bridge deals are usually done on second contracts. This is actually Dumoulin's third, the contract he was in actually was his bridge deal. He's also only 2 years from UFA status. So I'd expect a longer deal and a higher average because they will be buying some UFA years.
- Tojo.

Totally forgot. Good points....makes me wonder if he gets 4 mill per , what will Schultz, who was tied for 7th in entire league for D-men scoring with 51 points, get...

4 million dolars for 15 points a season.. I don't want anything to do with that. That's awful value.
- j.boyd919

Market for defensemen is more about role and minutes played then points. If he was a 30 point guy, it would be more like 5M (Schultz). I'm not really arguing what the market shoild be, just what it is. Pens can try to get him for less, but really can't afford to let him go IMO.

4M seems like the price for a young top 4 defenseman these days. This is actually Dumoulin's third contract, he's arbitration eligible, and the Sharks got Vlasic's deal done early and almost 9 years ago so it's not a good comparable. Maybe it gets done under 4M but probably not by much and likely only if he's taking a discount.

Sheary is really hard to figure, but he does have arbitration rights.

Largely I'm being conservative. I think a lot of numbers being thrown around are optimistic.
- Tojo.

These are Dumo's comparables, also in ranks of scoring last season. I don't want to pay 4 million for any of those players and that includes Brian Dumolin. Maybe Hamonic, even then.. he makes 3.85mil

These are Dumo's comparables, also in ranks of scoring last season. I don't want to pay 4 million for any of those players and that includes Brian Dumolin. Maybe Hamonic, even then.. he makes 3.85mil
- j.boyd919

Points mean nothing for a d-man, especially a more stay at home d-man like Dumo.

Market for defensemen is more about role and minutes played then points. If he was a 30 point guy, it would be more like 5M (Schultz). I'm not really arguing what the market shoild be, just what it is. Pens can try to get him for less, but really can't afford to let him go IMO.
- Tojo.

I think that's how GMs make mistakes, letting the market dictate things too much because you should absolutely be able to use production as an indicator on contract value. I like Dumo, and think he's solid, but (frank).. we can just replace Dumo with Brendan Smith cheaper, and it would probably be an improvement.

Points mean nothing for a d-man, especially a more stay at home d-man like Dumo.
- cap1681

Dumo is a passenger, I don't want to overpay for passengers.

In general, I think people are going to be surprised by what a lot of these young guys are going to make. Sheary, Dumoulin, Schultz this year. Rust, with a good year Wilson next year. Guentzel aftwr that, then Murray. Most if them will be too old for bridge deals on their next contracts. The bargains will go away and at some point the Pens will have to choose which are worth retaining. Fortunately, they're not at that point yet.

Points mean nothing for a d-man, especially a more stay at home d-man like Dumo.
- cap1681

When you think points mean nothing for d-men, that's how you sign contracts like Dan Girardi and Marc Staal's. I don't want the Pens to fall into that trap.

Can you find me a defensemen who doesn't put up points, but has an expensive contract (under 20 points, over 4 mil cap hit) that you would welcome to the Pens?

Points mean nothing for a d-man, especially a more stay at home d-man like Dumo.
- cap1681

I even narrowed the list for you... Which one of those guys do you want on the Pens at 4 million per year?

In general, I think people are going to be surprised by what a lot of these young guys are going to make. Sheary, Dumoulin, Schultz this year. Rust, with a good year Wilson next year. Guentzel aftwr that, then Murray. Most if them will be too old for bridge deals on their next contracts. The bargains will go away and at some point the Pens will have to choose which are worth retaining. Fortunately, they're not at that point yet.
- Tojo.

Schultz, guentz and Murray are the must keeps. I agree with Boyd, can't over pay for Dumo. 3.25 tops.

When you think points mean nothing for d-men, that's how you sign contracts like Dan Girardi and Marc Staal's. I don't want the Pens to fall into that trap.

Can you find me a defensemen who doesn't put up points, but has an expensive contract (under 20 points, over 4 mil cap hit) that you would welcome to the Pens?
- j.boyd919

Comparing Dumo to Staal/Girardi is a horribly apples & oranges comparison. The only thing comparable is their minutes & points. Their actual ability to play hockey aren't even on the same planet. Dumo can skate & shut guys down & play the system. Staal & Girardi are worn down pylons who can barely skate at this point. Wear & tear & being nothing but pylons at this pointare the reasons Staal & Girardi are garbage contracts. Not their point production or minutes.

I think that's how GMs make mistakes, letting the market dictate things too much because you should absolutely be able to use production as an indicator on contract value. I like Dumo, and think he's solid, but (frank).. we can just replace Dumo with Brendan Smith cheaper, and it would probably be an improvement.


- j.boyd919

I don't think you're getting Smith under 4M either. Even then I'd replace Maatta first.

Dumoulin is largely a shot suppression guy who eats big minutes ideally alongside a more puck moving defenseman. I know we disagree on the value of those guys and you have no use for them. Fairly certain he's not being moved though and would rather just talk about what we can add so just gonna agree to disagree.

Hagelin had a broken Fibula that never healed correctly. that will slow you down a few steps........

The injuries coming out of interviews today are nuts.

Schultz at $4.5 and Dumo somewhere under $4 is fair.

I'd like Daley back if he was in the $2.5 range.

Beauchemin got bought out by Colorado. If he wants to sign cheap to a contender I think he would be great as a 4-6 D man.

Young dmen. Comparables to Dumo (in production and "role) would be Stone, Scandella, Sbisa, Tanev, Murphy.

I wouldn't touch any of those players. Dumo falls in line with every one of those players, production, cap hit, and underlying numbers except for Scandella, who has better underlying numbers than all of the others. And most other teams fans are complaining or trying to figure out how to rid their teams of those contracts for that very reason.

When you think points mean nothing for d-men, that's how you sign contracts like Dan Girardi and Marc Staal's. I don't want the Pens to fall into that trap.

Can you find me a defensemen who doesn't put up points, but has an expensive contract (under 20 points, over 4 mil cap hit) that you would welcome to the Pens?
- j.boyd919

Girardi and Staal pdobably made at least 3M too much. If that was what Dumoulin was getting I'd say no way. But this is likely going to be 500k to 750k outside your comfort zone, not comparable.

I don't think you're getting Smith under 4M either. Even then I'd replace Maatta first.

Dumoulin is largely a shot suppression guy who eats big minutes ideally alongside a more puck moving defenseman. I know we disagree on the value of those guys and you have no use for them. Fairly certain he's not being moved though and would rather just talk about what we can add so just gonna agree to disagree.
- Tojo.

That's not true, I do think there is a use for them, I just don't believe in paying a premium for passengers that don't produce. If he's gonna be a passenger, he should get paid like a passenger. If he's gonna ride shotgun with Letang, he should muster up more points than 15 playing 23+ minutes a night.

For all those flinging contract numbers around, just remember guys will take home town discounts to STAY in Pittsburgh. Schultz has come out and said he WANTS to stay in Pitt, which also means "I will not price myself out of a contract" for a team I want to play for.

The guys are coming off back to back championships, many will take less money to stay and try for more championships. I also see a few UFA's wanting to come to a winning environment and playing with the Pens. I can see Giradi making a nice 3rd d pairing at a very discounted price.

It is my belief that the Pens 2017/18 roster could very well field their best line-up of the last 3 years and go for the 3-peat.

Girardi and Staal pdobably made at least 3M too much. If that was what Dumoulin was getting I'd say no way. But this is likely going to be 500k to 750k outside your comfort zone, not comparable.
- Tojo.

The comparable was less about actually dollars and centers, it was about paying for players who don't produce both raw and underlying.