you said you agree on the Couturier issue. That was the Couturier issue expressed in this thread.
- Mordecai

I thought he was responding to the thoughts of moving Couturier to 3C

you said you agree on the Couturier issue. That was the Couturier issue expressed in this thread.
- Mordecai

3C...stop getting high before lunch

There is more over analyzing of this team than a roomful of psychologists would do with roomful of manic depressives.

You have your nothing matters but analytics crowd and, of course, the I know what my eyes tell me crowd. Hey guys, here's a newsflash for ya. None of you are right, and none of you know more than any NHL team's professional scouting staff and hockey management people.

Analytics are important, the eye test is important and actual on-ice production is too. But there is more to it than just that when judging a players overall performance and value to a team. If you are a judging a younger player, the following things also matter:
Does he understand how he needs to train and take care of his body as a pro athlete and is he willing to make the necessary sacrifices to do so?
Is he receptive to coaching and willing to learn?
Does he have a good work ethic?
Does he get along well with teammates on and off the ice?

For an older player, they might ask:
are their family/marital issues that may effect his play?
Is he willing to help out the younger players and take a rookie under his wing?
Does he lead by example both on and off the ice?
Is he a vocal leader, and if so, does he know when and when not to speak?
Is he the kind of player that will support what the coaching staff is trying to do?

It's more than analytics, stats and what we see during 10-20 minutes a night on the ice, a lot more. It's why a team may value a guy like Streit or Bellemare more than most of us, and perhaps some other guys less than most of us. Few of us, if any, are ever going to be privy to what goes on behind the scenes or have access to this type of information. Try keeping that in mind when judging a player.
- BiggE

I think what you're forgetting is that I am always right

As for the Fazleev article, so much to make you shake your head, though he's a great kid nonetheless. Most of it just confirming what people who watch a lot of Phantoms hockey thought and noticed themselves.

Nothing wrong with working your way up, but I despise making him play like the second coming of VandeVelde. Fazleev was always a dedicated, smart 200 ft player. There was nothing to change. He was steered to playing a no event 4th line role and not even attempt anything. As he said, his goal was to do nothing. Wonderful. You can point to Fazleev being a likely bottom 6 guy (he's got offensive skill though, enough to not have to play like a plug), but NAK was used exactly the same and he has some real skills. He was also asked to play like a dump and chase plug, and it was sad to watch. The best part is that the Phantoms play incredibly unstructured hockey. I'd love to know what structure he was learning to inject in his game.

It's just a regressive old school pigeonholing mentality to begin with, to say nothing about iffy development. It's not like it's a surprise Fazleev said Gordon treated veterans differently and couldn't play them enough. Saw it ALL year. Radel has a great attitude and he seemed understanding of playing a depth part. But then to (frank)ing scratch him down the stretch and all playoffs to play an ECHL call-up barely with the team all year. We all saw what Gordon did with the other prospects, chiefly Friedman and also Myers, playing another ECHL player over them. That's his M.O. It's just one of a dozen reasons I am thrilled he's our AHL coach to develop all these top prospects we have.
- Mononoke

perhaps it really falls on the Flyers organization and not Gordon. coaches are hired to win. was Gordon charged with making the Phantoms a winning team first and forth most or was he hired to simply develop the prospects? was he told to play certain kids in specific roles to fit what they may be doing in the NHL if they make it? I have no idea. just throwing it out there that we really don't know.

you said you agree on the Couturier issue. That was the Couturier issue expressed in this thread.
- Mordecai

Here is exactly what I said. "I completely agree on the point concerning Courturier but that is a completely different topic." That was made in reply to the point the poster made in the post I replied to.

I'll never understand the Read hate. He's the exact player that everyone seems to think Bellemare is
- PhillySportsGuy

simply stated, his cap hit. I don't hate him and he was a really good player for the Flyers in his first 3 seasons. since then, while he has played his role well, he is vastly overpaid.

perhaps it really falls on the Flyers organization and not Gordon. coaches are hired to win. was Gordon charged with making the Phantoms a winning team first and forth most or was he hired to simply develop the prospects? was he told to play certain kids in specific roles to fit what they may be doing in the NHL if they make it? I have no idea. just throwing it out there that we really don't know.
- nastyflyergirl

Most likely a combination of both. What I can confidently say is that if the situation was close to what some posters are making it out to be concerning the job Gordon is doing with the Phantoms, Hextall would fire him.

Agreed. Simmonds, Schenn, Giroux, Voracek Couturier, and Gudas should all be traded for picks and prospects. Then, when those guys get to be about 27-28, we will do the same.

Hinkie ftw!!!
- jmatchett383

I just said Schenn and Simmonds

My only disdain for coots is he can't seem to stay healthy for 82 games. He's never taken the time to round out his physique so this doesn't happen. It's been what 5 years ?
- Tfaehner

he has played 77, 46 (lockout), 82, 82, 63 and 66. over the last 2 year, yes....but prior you can't say that.

Didn't back read enough now I'm ready to personally attack each one of you

He was concussed by Rinaldo on a dirty hit and knee on kneed by Trocheck.
- Mononoke

It wasn't a knee on knee that did the damage. Provorov accidentally pushed Trocheck after he was already entangled with Couturier, and his weight went on to the back of Couturier's leg. I remember seeing an angle that showed that clearly.

The idea that Couturier wouldn't have got hurt on that play or Rinaldo's jumping headshot if he had worked out more is so (frank)ing stupid it should win a prize.

he has played 77, 46 (lockout), 82, 82, 63 and 66. over the last 2 year, yes....but prior you can't say that.
- nastyflyergirl

If Couts could bench 350 he would stop getting paper cuts forever

It wasn't a knee on knee that did the damage. Provorov accidentally pushed Trocheck after he was already entangled with Couturier, and his weight went on to the back of Couturier's leg. I remember seeing an angle that showed that clearly.

The idea that Couturier wouldn't have got hurt on that play if he had worked out more is so (frank)ing stupid it should win a prize.
- Feanor

Just as this post should win a prize.

How many times did you watch Flip play for Tampa last year outside of the games against the Flyers?

He was okay for the Flyers imo. Definitely added an element offensively. However, there is a large part of our fan base that believes he was the 2C that this team so desperately needed so that we could demote Cooter to 3C That's a massive overstatement. Flip has his flaws, and as stated before tends to bleed scoring chances against. Its only 1 year and the Flyers essentially got him for nothing so its completely fine. If he had more term left on his deal, I would have a major issue with it.

Pretty sure most of the people on here using analytics actually watch hockey games too. Especially on the internet, its hard to argue/prove anything with the #eyetest
- JFlyers00

I never watch the games. I just sit on my computer and keep hitting refresh so I can see the up to date data.

perhaps it really falls on the Flyers organization and not Gordon. coaches are hired to win. was Gordon charged with making the Phantoms a winning team first and forth most or was he hired to simply develop the prospects? was he told to play certain kids in specific roles to fit what they may be doing in the NHL if they make it? I have no idea. just throwing it out there that we really don't know.
- nastyflyergirl

Absolutely.

It's more than analytics, stats and what we see during 10-20 minutes a night on the ice, a lot more. It's why a team may value a guy like Streit or Bellemare more than most of us, and perhaps some other guys less than most of us. Few of us, if any, are ever going to be privy to what goes on behind the scenes or have access to this type of information. Try keeping that in mind when judging a player.
- BiggE

It was a fun post and all, but really what does it all mean? Are you saying we should just trust that the Flyers or any other team on here does everything right because they know more than anyone else? Are you saying it just isn't worth talking about over and over?

If it is the latter, I would probably agree, but also point out that is literally all that is done on here. If it is the former, then I would ask where you would expect to see that? Are skill and responsibility inversely proportional? Does a guy have to be 34 to lead? I see those types of comments getting thrown around all over the place as assumptions. To have a team that values skill and positive shot differentials and whatever other "fancy" things you want to throw in there does not mean the team cannot have veterans, grinders, "professional" players on the roster.

So yes, I agree that probably no one single person is right, and some of us have our own opinion on what is right, but free thought is always nice to see if it has an actual resemblance to being supported by evidence. Even all the evidence in the world doesn't guarantee the right decision is made either. If the Flyers were doing everything right, they wouldn't be picking #2 next weekend.

I never watch the games. I just sit on my computer and keep hitting refresh so I can see the up to date data.
- PhillySportsGuy

I KNEW IT

Was filpulla that bad or do you just want to clear a spot? I don't know i thought he added a good presence in the middle. Certainly an upgrade over cousins
- Just5

And Schenn. It was Filppula arriving that moved Schenn out the middle, and to Couturier's wing where he clearly belongs.

If Patrick comes in and is immediately a better center option than Filppula, then Filp can flip to LW no problem. He's done that before.

Didn't back read enough now I'm ready to personally attack each one of you
- Mordecai

bring it on, sport

bring it on, sport
- Scoob

The "sport" made me think of Turnbull's leaked roasting Trump.

It was a fun post and all, but really what does it all mean? Are you saying we should just trust that the Flyers or any other team on here does everything right because they know more than anyone else? Are you saying it just isn't worth talking about over and over?

If it is the latter, I would probably agree, but also point out that is literally all that is done on here. If it is the former, then I would ask where you would expect to see that? Are skill and responsibility inversely proportional? Does a guy have to be 34 to lead? I see those types of comments getting thrown around all over the place as assumptions. To have a team that values skill and positive shot differentials and whatever other "fancy" things you want to throw in there does not mean the team cannot have veterans, grinders, "professional" players on the roster.

So yes, I agree that probably no one single person is right, and some of us have our own opinion on what is right, but free thought is always nice to see if it has an actual resemblance to being supported by evidence. Even all the evidence in the world doesn't guarantee the right decision is made either. If the Flyers were doing everything right, they wouldn't be picking #2 next weekend.
- YuenglingJagr

Never said they do everything right, my main points were:
We don't always see the forest for the trees when we judge players
The team is privy to more info in regards to any player
We beat subjects to death around here

Never said they do everything right, my main points were:
We don't always see the forest for the trees when we judge players
The team is privy to more info in regards to any player
We beat subjects to death around here
- BiggE

I say we all spend a day in the Vancouver thread to truly understand suffering. Then we come back here with some fresh perspective.

I took the Filpulla trade as a trade for this year. At that point they didn't have the 2nd overall pick and needed some center depth. The move got Schenn back on the wing and kind of took some offensive pressure off Couturier. Even though we like to label Couturier as the 3rd line center, he really isn't because he will play heavy minutes.

Getting Filpulla for 1 year at 5 million was allowing the Flyers to not have to chase any FA in this offseason. And you would never get a FA like him on a 1 year deal.

Getting the number 2 pick has chaged some things. Also the development of Linblom and now him coming over. But it's not anything that can't be fixed. The number 2 pick could come in and play center and move Filpulla to wing or vice versa.

Filpulla plays well and depending on the Flyers playoff position he could be a nice asset to flip.

The Flyers actually have solid depth this year the way things are looking. I actually am not finding much wrong right now unless for some dumb reason they don't take one of Patrick or Hischier at number 2

I say we all spend a day in the Vancouver thread to truly understand suffering. Then we come back with some fresh perspective.
- Mordecai