Oh I get it

Give me the book of Dove-McFalls 4:8
- YuenglingJagr

Dove-McFalls 4:8 (Black Book Version)

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—sign Dove-McFalls to his ELC.

Dove-McFalls 4:8 (Black Book Version)

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—sign Dove-McFalls to his ELC.
- Mononoke

HE gave up his draft rights...for us

HE gave up his draft rights...for us
- YuenglingJagr

He's not the bottom 6 Messiah. He's a very naughty boy who didn't get signed. Now go away!

He's not the bottom 6 Messiah. He's a very naughty boy who didn't get signed. Now go away!
- Mononoke

He's draft eligible. Do you mean to tell me he is not included in your little black book?

He's draft eligible. Do you mean to tell me he is not included in your little black book?
- YuenglingJagr

They couldn't know he wouldn't be signed!

Because he was misused. Raffl needs a strong center and Giroux is not a 1C anylonger
And when he played Bottom 6 also as center the wingers where not quick enough
- goenzoy

Sooo... he's a badly flawed player who can't create his own offense and who has to ride someone else's coat tails to be effective, otherwise what you get is 1 point every 5 games or so. Great.

Seriously.. did you say that Giroux was dragging Raffl down? Did it ever occur to you that it might be the other way around?

Filppula's role in Tampa changed to a bit less of a scoring-oriented role as young players (Kucherov, Namestnikov and Johnson) began to emerge. Last season, with Stamkos out most of the year, he had a respectable 34 points in 59 games with a healthy percentage coming at even strength. With the Flyers he had five goals in 20 games and created more scoring chances than his three assists would suggest.

The bottom line with Filppula is that he produced 42 points last year, which is certainly doable again for the one season left on his contract.

And, no, I don't particularly care what the shot attempt differential numbers were in his case. If you closely watch him play when he has the puck, you will notice that he often holds onto the puck as long as possible rather than blindly throwing into traffic or from a bad angle. Often that means that no shot attempt results from the shift.
- bmeltzer

They're just looking blindly at analytics and ignoring the actual play on the ice for Fillpula. He made the Flyers a better team and he played reasonably well. One poster in particular repeatedly points out narratives of others while offering repeated poor analysis.

They're just looking blindly at analytics and ignoring the actual play on the ice for Fillpula. He made the Flyers a better team and he played reasonably well. One poster in particular repeatedly points out narratives of others while offering repeated poor analysis.
- MJL

How many times did you watch Flip play for Tampa last year outside of the games against the Flyers?

He was okay for the Flyers imo. Definitely added an element offensively. However, there is a large part of our fan base that believes he was the 2C that this team so desperately needed so that we could demote Cooter to 3C That's a massive overstatement. Flip has his flaws, and as stated before tends to bleed scoring chances against. Its only 1 year and the Flyers essentially got him for nothing so its completely fine. If he had more term left on his deal, I would have a major issue with it.

Pretty sure most of the people on here using analytics actually watch hockey games too. Especially on the internet, its hard to argue/prove anything with the #eyetest

Agreed. That's why I'm in favor of trading guys like Schenn and Simmonds for youth.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed. Simmonds, Schenn, Giroux, Voracek Couturier, and Gudas should all be traded for picks and prospects. Then, when those guys get to be about 27-28, we will do the same.

Hinkie ftw!!!

How many times did you watch Flip play for Tampa last year outside of the games against the Flyers?

He was okay for the Flyers imo. Definitely added an element offensively. However, there is a large part of our fan base that believes he was the 2C that this team so desperately needed so that we could demote Cooter to 3C That's a massive overstatement. Flip has his flaws, and as stated before tends to bleed scoring chances against. Its only 1 year and the Flyers essentially got him for nothing so its completely fine. If he had more term left on his deal, I would have a major issue with it.

Pretty sure most of the people on here using analytics actually watch hockey games too. Especially on the internet, its hard to argue/prove anything with the #eyetest
- JFlyers00

It's hard to argue/prove anything with the eye test so that makes it okay to make flawed analysis based on an over use of analytics? How many times did you watch Filppulla play for Tampa last year and how is that relevant to how he played for the Flyers? Those using analytics to point out that Filpulla was bad last year for the Flyers are simply wrong. We're reading time after time certain posters calling other posters opinions narratives when they themselves are the ones offering the flawed narratives. From Gordon to Filppula. I completely agree on the point concerning Courturier but that is a completely different topic.

Agreed. Simmonds, Schenn, Giroux, Voracek Couturier, and Gudas should all be traded for picks and prospects. Then, when those guys get to be about 27-28, we will do the same.

Hinkie ftw!!!
- jmatchett383

I think we are past the point of full Hinkie

It's hard to argue/prove anything with the eye test so that makes it okay to make flawed analysis based on an over use of analytics? How many times did you watch Filppulla play for Tampa last year and how is that relevant to how he played for the Flyers? Those using analytics to point out that Filpulla was bad last year for the Flyers are simply wrong. We're reading time after time certain posters calling other posters opinions narratives when they themselves are the ones offering the flawed narratives. From Gordon to Filppula. I completely agree on the point concerning Courturier but that is a completely different topic.
- MJL

Wait I thought using quotes was okay? I can't keep it straight

Wait I thought using quotes was okay? I can't keep it straight
- YuenglingJagr

I think Gordon was very overrated and a bad pickup. The guy was constantly injured, was past his prime (which was never that good) and was essentially a specialist with little else to offer. But by the time we got him, he was injury prone and a shadow of his former self. Despite making the All-Star team, somehow, he was just a bad signing. Hell, he wasn't even able to hold onto the closer spot.

So MJL you agree that Couturier "needs to fill out his frame to avoid further injuries"?

Because you know that makes absolutely no sense, right?

So MJL you agree that Couturier "needs to fill out his frame to avoid further injuries"?

Because you know that makes absolutely no sense, right?
- Mordecai

Your comment here is what doesn't make sense to me and I have no idea what it is based on or what leads you to believe that.

Love my boy Ghost, but this contract is likely his last from this team if things work out with Sanheim and Myers.
- Mononoke

Ghost's contract screams "easy to move, come and get it!"

Imho, it's a little early to be thinking about moving him with the uncertainty around the d-men still developing.

There is more over analyzing of this team than a roomful of psychologists would do with roomful of manic depressives.

You have your nothing matters but analytics crowd and, of course, the I know what my eyes tell me crowd. Hey guys, here's a newsflash for ya. None of you are right, and none of you know more than any NHL team's professional scouting staff and hockey management people.

Analytics are important, the eye test is important and actual on-ice production is too. But there is more to it than just that when judging a players overall performance and value to a team. If you are a judging a younger player, the following things also matter:
Does he understand how he needs to train and take care of his body as a pro athlete and is he willing to make the necessary sacrifices to do so?
Is he receptive to coaching and willing to learn?
Does he have a good work ethic?
Does he get along well with teammates on and off the ice?

For an older player, they might ask:
are their family/marital issues that may effect his play?
Is he willing to help out the younger players and take a rookie under his wing?
Does he lead by example both on and off the ice?
Is he a vocal leader, and if so, does he know when and when not to speak?
Is he the kind of player that will support what the coaching staff is trying to do?

It's more than analytics, stats and what we see during 10-20 minutes a night on the ice, a lot more. It's why a team may value a guy like Streit or Bellemare more than most of us, and perhaps some other guys less than most of us. Few of us, if any, are ever going to be privy to what goes on behind the scenes or have access to this type of information. Try keeping that in mind when judging a player.

Ghost's contract screams "easy to move, come and get it!"

Imho, it's a little early to be thinking about moving him with the uncertainty around the d-men still developing.
- Scoob

I don't think any of the young Dmen are going anywhere for at least another year.

I think Gordon was very overrated and a bad pickup. The guy was constantly injured, was past his prime (which was never that good) and was essentially a specialist with little else to offer. But by the time we got him, he was injury prone and a shadow of his former self. Despite making the All-Star team, somehow, he was just a bad signing. Hell, he wasn't even able to hold onto the closer spot.
- jmatchett383

There is more over analyzing of this team than a roomful of psychologists would do with roomful of manic depressives.

You have your nothing matters but analytics crowd and, of course, the I know what my eyes tell me crowd. Hey guys, here's a newsflash for ya. None of you are right, and none of you know more than any NHL team's professional scouting staff and hockey management people.

Analytics are important, the eye test is important and actual on-ice production is too. But there is more to it than just that when judging a players overall performance and value to a team. If you are a judging a younger player, the following things also matter:
Does he understand how he needs to train and take care of his body as a pro athlete and is he willing to make the necessary sacrifices to do so?
Is he receptive to coaching and willing to learn?
Does he have a good work ethic?
Does he get along well with teammates on and off the ice?

For an older player, they might ask:
are their family/marital issues that may effect his play?
Is he willing to help out the younger players and take a rookie under his wing?
Does he lead by example both on and off the ice?
Is he a vocal leader, and if so, does he know when and when not to speak?
Is he the kind of player that will support what the coaching staff is trying to do?

It's more than analytics, stats and what we see during 10-20 minutes a night on the ice, a lot more. It's why a team may value a guy like Streit or Bellemare more than most of us, and perhaps some other guys less than most of us. Few of us, if any, are ever going to be privy to what goes on behind the scenes or have access to this type of information. Try keeping that in mind when judging a player.
- BiggE

Well said. Some also don't understand that especially at the lower levels such as in the AHL, younger players are going to be treated and coached differently than veteran players who were signed and brought in for a particular role or skill. There are many reasons for that.

There is more over analyzing of this team than a roomful of psychologists would do with roomful of manic depressives.

You have your nothing matters but analytics crowd and, of course, the I know what my eyes tell me crowd. Hey guys, here's a newsflash for ya. None of you are right, and none of you know more than any NHL team's professional scouting staff and hockey management people.

Analytics are important, the eye test is important and actual on-ice production is too. But there is more to it than just that when judging a players overall performance and value to a team. If you are a judging a younger player, the following things also matter:
Does he understand how he needs to train and take care of his body as a pro athlete and is he willing to make the necessary sacrifices to do so?
Is he receptive to coaching and willing to learn?
Does he have a good work ethic?
Does he get along well with teammates on and off the ice?

For an older player, they might ask:
are their family/marital issues that may effect his play?
Is he willing to help out the younger players and take a rookie under his wing?
Does he lead by example both on and off the ice?
Is he a vocal leader, and if so, does he know when and when not to speak?
Is he the kind of player that will support what the coaching staff is trying to do?

It's more than analytics, stats and what we see during 10-20 minutes a night on the ice, a lot more. It's why a team may value a guy like Streit or Bellemare more than most of us, and perhaps some other guys less than most of us. Few of us, if any, are ever going to be privy to what goes on behind the scenes or have access to this type of information. Try keeping that in mind when judging a player.
- BiggE

Good stuff here. Don't forget hexys adoptable meter. Bellemare practically busted it

Your comment here is what doesn't make sense to me and I have no idea what it is based on or what leads you to believe that.
- MJL

you said you agree on the Couturier issue. That was the Couturier issue expressed in this thread.

There is more over analyzing of this team than a roomful of psychologists would do with roomful of manic depressives.

You have your nothing matters but analytics crowd and, of course, the I know what my eyes tell me crowd. Hey guys, here's a newsflash for ya. None of you are right, and none of you know more than any NHL team's professional scouting staff and hockey management people.

Analytics are important, the eye test is important and actual on-ice production is too. But there is more to it than just that when judging a players overall performance and value to a team. If you are a judging a younger player, the following things also matter:
Does he understand how he needs to train and take care of his body as a pro athlete and is he willing to make the necessary sacrifices to do so?
Is he receptive to coaching and willing to learn?
Does he have a good work ethic?
Does he get along well with teammates on and off the ice?

For an older player, they might ask:
are their family/marital issues that may effect his play?
Is he willing to help out the younger players and take a rookie under his wing?
Does he lead by example both on and off the ice?
Is he a vocal leader, and if so, does he know when and when not to speak?
Is he the kind of player that will support what the coaching staff is trying to do?

It's more than analytics, stats and what we see during 10-20 minutes a night on the ice, a lot more. It's why a team may value a guy like Streit or Bellemare more than most of us, and perhaps some other guys less than most of us. Few of us, if any, are ever going to be privy to what goes on behind the scenes or have access to this type of information. Try keeping that in mind when judging a player.
- BiggE

Amen!

xx

Also I don't think anybody here said that Filp was a bad player. Just that he struggled defensively and that it was a trend in Tampa as well.