Moulson and Ennis are over paid for being 3rd 4th liners.

He also inherited some bad contracts in Bogo and Kuli.

Franson was overpaid
- mattsox

Moulson and Ennis are overpaid NOW, but I would agree maybe not before. Remember on Moulson he was a FA and we were the worst team in the league, so he needed to overpay to get him here. If we ever wanted him back is a point, but that was the situation.

Ennis was 24ish and starting to hit his prime. His head injuries happened after that contract so tough to be really critical there. Yes looking back, too much money. But at the time I am not sure many thought that way. He was leading our team in scoring (the worst team in the league by a lot).

So Housely or Tocchet?
- Matthews_Auston

It is housleys job if he accepts. Pegula does not want tocchet

My post was total sarcasm as we were told over and over that Girgensons would cost $3M-$3.5M and he ended up costing all of...$1.15M last season.

I'll believe it when I see it regarding Lehner getting paid $5M.
- kingcong39

yeah that was what girgens AGENT wanted


agents shoot high

Moulson and Ennis are over paid for being 3rd 4th liners.

He also inherited some bad contracts in Bogo and Kuli.

Franson was overpaid
- mattsox

Franson: 2 years $6.65 ($3.325 average) in 2015
2014-2015 78 games with 36 points

He was a FA as well, so maybe, maybe a little over payment, but to get FA you need to do that.

Moulson and Ennis are overpaid NOW, but I would agree maybe not before. Remember on Moulson he was a FA and we were the worst team in the league, so he needed to overpay to get him here. If we ever wanted him back is a point, but that was the situation.

Ennis was 24ish and starting to hit his prime. His head injuries happened after that contract so tough to be really critical there. Yes looking back, too much money. But at the time I am not sure many thought that way. He was leading our team in scoring (the worst team in the league by a lot).
- Lilroot9

I'll agree with you here. They both are now contracts anyone in the NHL would want to run away from.

Whats the Goal for this season?
- sabreswarpath

Commutation
Culture
Vision
Playoffs

Franson: 2 years $6.65 ($3.325 average) in 2015
2014-2015 78 games with 36 points

He was a FA as well, so maybe, maybe a little over payment, but to get FA you need to do that.
- Lilroot9

Here is the list of stats from D men this year. See most that have lots higher salaries
Player Team Games Goals Assists Points
 Mike Green DET 72 14 22 36
 Nikita Zaitsev TOR 82 4 32 36
 T.J. Brodie CGY 82 6 30 36
 Alex Goligoski ARI 82 6 30 36
 Andrei Markov MON 62 6 30 36
 Andrej Sekera EDM 80 8 27 35
 Colton Parayko STL 81 4 31 35
 Nick Holden NYR 80 11 23 34
 Matt Dumba MIN 76 11 23 34
 Kris Letang PIT 41 5 29 34
 Jaccob Slavin CAR 82 5 29 34
 Dmitry Orlov WAS 82 6 27 33
 Jacob Trouba WPG 60 8 25 33
 Damon Severson NJD 80 3 28 31
 Dion Phaneuf OTT 81 9 21 30
 Ivan Provorov PHI 82 6 24 30
 Noah Hanifin CAR 81 4 25 29
 Zdeno Chara BOS 75 10 19 29
 Nathan Beaulieu MON 74 4 24 28
 Jason Demers FLA 81 9 19 28
 Jeff Petry MON 80 8 20 28
 Jake Muzzin LOS 82 9 19 28
 Marc-Edouard Vlasic SAN 75 6 22 28
 Morgan Rielly TOR 76 6 21 27
 Mark Streit PIT 68 6 21 27
 Ian Cole PIT 81 5 21 26
 Paul Martin SAN 81 4 22 26
 Jonas Brodin MIN 68 3 22 25
 Calvin de Haan NYI 82 5 20 25
 Troy Stecher VAN 71 3 21 24
 Sami Vatanen ANA 71 3 21 24
 Jack Johnson COB 82 5 18 23
 Radko Gudas PHI 67 6 17 23
 Johnny Boychuk NYI 66 6 17 23
 David Savard COB 74 6 17 23

I'll agree with you here. They both are now contracts anyone in the NHL would want to run away from.
- mattsox

It is really easy to look back and say we did something wrong. I dont think Murray did that much "bad", the top of the list would be not trading for a D in the last year, hiring Byaslma, and signing Moulson (I think even at the time the 5 years seemed like too long).

It is really easy to look back and say we did something wrong. I dont think Murray did that much "bad", the top of the list would be not trading for a D in the last year, hiring Byaslma, and signing Moulson (I think even at the time the 5 years seemed like too long).
- Lilroot9

And as much as I hate the Moulson contact, 81 games 32 points (this last year) is not horrible. I could find at least 10 players in the league making more than that with worse point totals last year.

He also played low minutes on 4th line, so that was not doing him any favors. Dont get me wrong, I do want him gone (mostly the salary), but he was not why we were bad last year.

And as much as I hate the Moulson contact, 81 games 32 points (this last year) is not horrible. I could find at least 10 players in the league making more than that with worse point totals last year.

He also played low minutes on 4th line, so that was not doing him any favors. Dont get me wrong, I do want him gone (mostly the salary), but he was not why we were bad last year.
- Lilroot9

The problem is he doesn't get any better if he's bumped up to the second line. He just makes those around him worse. It's like having a line of 2.5 guys instead of 3

Take it or leave it. A source of mine said coach announced next week (wouldn't tell me who). Also said the Sabres have INQUIRED about a blockbuster trade for Kane....Patrick Kane. Yes. Again, no further details on the offer.

Please note: i have no further info. My source does work for the Sabres. Also note the word inquired... meaning it probably won't happen.

just sharing what I have heard.
- Simple

Great info! Thanks! Keep it coming!

Can't imagine what we would have to give up for Kane. The rumor 2 years ago was Kane for Eichel (well 2nd overall pick). So it would have to be what, Rinehart, Nylander and McCabe I would think and maybe the 8th pick this year too. Way too much for us right now.

The only other side is how much Kane makes (~$10.5?), who wants to take that on? So maybe the offer is down a bit with that in mind.

Take it or leave it. A source of mine said coach announced next week (wouldn't tell me who). Also said the Sabres have INQUIRED about a blockbuster trade for Kane....Patrick Kane. Yes. Again, no further details on the offer.

Please note: i have no further info. My source does work for the Sabres. Also note the word inquired... meaning it probably won't happen.

just sharing what I have heard.
- Simple

Interesting. Thanks for providing, if at the very least, a discussion topic.

The problem is he doesn't get any better if he's bumped up to the second line. He just makes those around him worse. It's like having a line of 2.5 guys instead of 3
- jcragcrumple

Dont disagree. I guess what I am saying is having him on line 4 and the PP #2 did not hurt us that much, but the cap hit does (cant get another better D man). He was a -4 (+/-) last year. Not horrible. I bet most sabres we worse than that.

Great info! Thanks! Keep it coming!

Can't imagine what we would have to give up for Kane. The rumor 2 years ago was Kane for Eichel (well 2nd overall pick). So it would have to be what, Rinehart, Nylander and McCabe I would think and maybe the 8th pick this year too. Way too much for us right now.

The only other side is how much Kane makes (~$10.5?), who wants to take that on? So maybe the offer is down a bit with that in mind.
- Lilroot9

Holy S, do whatever it takes minus Eichel and wouldn't be ROR cause he costs too much. PK88 and Eichel? YEEEEEEEEEEEESHKA. Can you say Lord Stanley?

Great info! Thanks! Keep it coming!

Can't imagine what we would have to give up for Kane. The rumor 2 years ago was Kane for Eichel (well 2nd overall pick). So it would have to be what, Rinehart, Nylander and McCabe I would think and maybe the 8th pick this year too. Way too much for us right now.

The only other side is how much Kane makes (~$10.5?), who wants to take that on? So maybe the offer is down a bit with that in mind.
- Lilroot9

For poops.

Kane will be turning 29 this season. As a superstar, he plays fast and safe. My guess is he has 8 years left of being elite to very good. That 10.5 will start weighing heavy when he's 34ish. So 5 years of accepting that salary, in which he becomes a UFA. I don't see much negative value, especially if the Hawks are willing to hold onto maybe 1.5 mil of that.

So, for the exception of maybe only taking 9 out of 10.5 mil in a trade, you're getting him for full value.

2017 1st
2018 1st
Reinhart
Guhle or Borgen
2018 2nd

Dont disagree. I guess what I am saying is having him on line 4 and the PP #2 did not hurt us that much, but the cap hit does (cant get another better D man). He was a -4 (+/-) last year. Not horrible. I bet most sabres we worse than that.
- Lilroot9

I really have no desire to watch him play ever again. Rationally, i understand i understand 32 points is fine. But 14 even strength points is not good. and f/a per60 of .32 and gper60 of .24 is bad.

He's bad. At 5 million, he's not ville leino, but he's definitely leino lite

Holy S, do whatever it takes minus Eichel and wouldn't be ROR cause he costs too much. PK88 and Eichel? YEEEEEEEEEEEESHKA. Can you say Lord Stanley?
- Hatboro_Swords

No, because our defense still stinks.

It is really easy to look back and say we did something wrong. I dont think Murray did that much "bad", the top of the list would be not trading for a D in the last year, hiring Byaslma, and signing Moulson (I think even at the time the 5 years seemed like too long).
- Lilroot9

Yeah, I agree. I think Murray wanted someone he could count on in a top 6 capacity while Eichel and Reinhart grew. It just ended up blowing up in his face unfortunately. I think he saw Moulson as a cornerstone he could count on to show the kids the way and at the time, he probably couldn't get many players to come here knowing were going to tank.

Here's this random bro

Christian Wheeler‏ @wheels8899 21m21 minutes ago
More
Replying to @PaynePatron @BJWilsonWGR
Source says Kane available in Chicago for trade Sabres Canes and Devils 3 teams that have called

I really have no desire to watch him play ever again. Rationally, i understand i understand 32 points is fine. But 14 even strength points is not good. and f/a per60 of .32 and gper60 of .24 is bad.

He's bad. At 5 million, he's not ville leino, but he's definitely leino lite
- jcragcrumple

I agree with all this. Just saying he is not the reason we missed the playoffs this year. He did not help, but was not the largest issue. That will continue to be Bylasma's system and buy in, into it.

I still think we are working (and will succeed) in a deal with Vegas to take him. I can only hope we work a deal where it is something like this:

Moulson
2nd rounder (ours, 40th? overall)
Ennis
3rd rounder (Washingtons or ours, whatever)

To Vegas for 7th rounder (if we need to get something back in the deal)

He sucks in the shootout. But no one can prove he's a bad or even below average goalie during game play. Best evidence I've seen from folks here was cherry picking at best.

(Using the past 2 seasons as a benchmark)
- TheSabresTaco

It was proven the other day. Repeatedly.

I actually am worried way less about his shootouts than I am his high danger sv% which is one of the worst in the league.

But whatever.

And as much as I hate the Moulson contact, 81 games 32 points (this last year) is not horrible. I could find at least 10 players in the league making more than that with worse point totals last year.

He also played low minutes on 4th line, so that was not doing him any favors. Dont get me wrong, I do want him gone (mostly the salary), but he was not why we were bad last year.
- Lilroot9

This point should be considered irrelevant. 10 other teams with bad contracts does not make Moulson's any less of a mistake.

Yeah, I agree. I think Murray wanted someone he could count on in a top 6 capacity while Eichel and Reinhart grew. It just ended up blowing up in his face unfortunately. I think he saw Moulson as a cornerstone he could count on to show the kids the way and at the time, he probably couldn't get many players to come here knowing were going to tank.
- mattsox

Totally. The entire thing blew up in his face. A person to help teach the kids, well he stopped working out and was HORRIBLE 2 years ago, what a waste. Horrible role model. I think Eichel actually helped him last offseason to get better, talk about role reversal.

And while we were tanking, who cares if we had an ok top 6 guy. lol. Just LOSE! lol

No, because our defense still stinks.
- TheSabresTaco

Best defense is a good offense. Push play and Ron Hainsey looks like a Norris Trophy winner.

It was proven the other day. Repeatedly.

I actually am worried way less about his shootouts than I am his high danger sv% which is one of the worst in the league.

But whatever.
- sbroads24

it's not proof, it's situational and it's partially a testament to poor defense.