yep
- Scoob

The ref saw the puck hit Murray, then Murray froze because he thought he had it. Ref saw that transpire, and couldn't see the puck because he was in horrible position, so he blew the whistle.

I'd like to see a rule that reads along the lines of "If the player is in the process of shooting/deflecting the puck when the whistle blows..." to either allow the goal or allow for the goal to be challenged.

Sounds like CBJ are giving them a first rounder + a prospect to take Clarkson and pick a specified player in the ED.

So that's a $5.25m cap hit for 3 years for Vegas where part of the salary is paid by insurance like Bolland. Now Vegas really don't need to take bloated contracts like Girardi (if he waived his NMC) or MacDonald.
- Feanor

Where do you see that? CBJ will lose its top 2 picks. I find it a bit far fetched. Not something I would do when the guy can be put on LTIR anyway

Thought the waves were only for the purpose of the expansion draft and then the clause goes back in effect.
- dragonoffrost

Do they?

I am unsure. But I am sure they can word to his agent in some way " hey, waive your NMC so we can take you because Philly would like to make a deal for you"

I think he would be ok to come here and start.

imagine the tone of this board right now if they didnt have the #2 pick in their back pocket
- Crimsoninja

or if ghost signed a 2 year bridge

or if ghost signed a 2 year bridge
- YuenglingJagr

Ah, but can you not also make a bridge from stone?

Ah, but can you not also make a bridge from stone?
- jmatchett383

she turned me into a newt!

imagine the tone of this board right now if they didnt have the #2 pick in their back pocket
- Crimsoninja

The # 2 pick should expedite the Cup process by a few years. Getting an Eichel/Laine type is enormous.

The ref saw the puck hit Murray, then Murray froze because he thought he had it. Ref saw that transpire, and couldn't see the puck because he was in horrible position, so he blew the whistle.

I'd like to see a rule that reads along the lines of "If the player is in the process of shooting/deflecting the puck when the whistle blows..." to either allow the goal or allow for the goal to be challenged.
- jmatchett383

The ref likely couldn't see the shooting/deflecting action based on where he was standing.

I'm firmly against the use of replay for anything.

But if the NHL is going to insist on it, then every time the puck crosses the goal line the play should be reviewed in Toronto. Not by challenge, but automatically.

The # 2 pick should expedite the Cup process by a few years. Getting an Eichel/Laine type is enormous.
- PLindbergh31

I am not advocating for doing it right now but does getting the number 2 pick(and if its patrick) does that increase the chance Giroux could be moved sooner then later?


Just asking. It would seem that if Patrick(i think NJ takes Hischier) can come in and show his skills and stay healthy that he has legit number 1 center potential.

The ref saw the puck hit Murray, then Murray froze because he thought he had it. Ref saw that transpire, and couldn't see the puck because he was in horrible position, so he blew the whistle.

I'd like to see a rule that reads along the lines of "If the player is in the process of shooting/deflecting the puck when the whistle blows..." to either allow the goal or allow for the goal to be challenged.
- jmatchett383

WOW...from Paul Stewart's blog:

The video review process shall be permitted to assist the Referees in determining the legitimacy of all potential goals (e.g. to ensure they are “good hockey goals”). For example (but not limited to), pucks that enter the net by going through the net meshing, pucks that enter the net from underneath the net frame, pucks that hit the spectator netting prior to being directed immediately into the goal, pucks that enter the net undetected by the Referee, etc. This would also include situations whereby the Referee stops play or is in the process of stopping the play because he has lost sight of the puck and it is subsequently determined by video review that the puck crosses (or has crossed) the goal line and enters the net as the culmination of a continuous play where the result was unaffected by the whistle (i.e., the timing of the whistle was irrelevant to the puck entering the net at the end of a continuous play).

Nashville could have reviewed it and it could have counted.

I am not advocating for doing it right now but does getting the number 2 pick(and if its patrick) does that increase the chance Giroux could be moved sooner then later?


Just asking. It would seem that if Patrick(i think NJ takes Hischier) can come in and show his skills and stay healthy that he has legit number 1 center potential.
- J35Bacher

I think Giroux still has a good 4-6 years of being a top-6 player (team-wide, not league). If one of Patrick/Hischier takes over as the #1, that means Giroux's QOC decreases. Also, he's still a top PP scorer in the league. So I think it may actually increase his time here.

WOW...from Paul Stewart's blog:

The video review process shall be permitted to assist the Referees in determining the legitimacy of all potential goals (e.g. to ensure they are “good hockey goals”). For example (but not limited to), pucks that enter the net by going through the net meshing, pucks that enter the net from underneath the net frame, pucks that hit the spectator netting prior to being directed immediately into the goal, pucks that enter the net undetected by the Referee, etc. This would also include situations whereby the Referee stops play or is in the process of stopping the play because he has lost sight of the puck and it is subsequently determined by video review that the puck crosses (or has crossed) the goal line and enters the net as the culmination of a continuous play where the result was unaffected by the whistle (i.e., the timing of the whistle was irrelevant to the puck entering the net at the end of a continuous play).

Nashville could have reviewed it and it could have counted.
- jmatchett383

I read that as Nashville couldn't challenge but the refs could've done something about it themselves.

WOW...from Paul Stewart's blog:

The video review process shall be permitted to assist the Referees in determining the legitimacy of all potential goals (e.g. to ensure they are “good hockey goals”). For example (but not limited to), pucks that enter the net by going through the net meshing, pucks that enter the net from underneath the net frame, pucks that hit the spectator netting prior to being directed immediately into the goal, pucks that enter the net undetected by the Referee, etc. This would also include situations whereby the Referee stops play or is in the process of stopping the play because he has lost sight of the puck and it is subsequently determined by video review that the puck crosses (or has crossed) the goal line and enters the net as the culmination of a continuous play where the result was unaffected by the whistle (i.e., the timing of the whistle was irrelevant to the puck entering the net at the end of a continuous play).

Nashville could have reviewed it and it could have counted.
- jmatchett383

It's a shame. that place would have been nuts.

I also wonder if the goalie interference challenge would have been reversed if in the regular season. I personally didn't think it was goalie interference but in the regular season i saw that and even less called back.

It's a shame. that place would have been nuts.

I also wonder if the goalie interference challenge would have been reversed if in the regular season. I personally didn't think it was goalie interference but in the regular season i saw that and even less called back.
- J35Bacher

I no longer have any idea what goalie interference is. I think the fact that Rinne wasn't in his crease may have been the determining factor.

WOW...from Paul Stewart's blog:

The video review process shall be permitted to assist the Referees in determining the legitimacy of all potential goals (e.g. to ensure they are “good hockey goals”). For example (but not limited to), pucks that enter the net by going through the net meshing, pucks that enter the net from underneath the net frame, pucks that hit the spectator netting prior to being directed immediately into the goal, pucks that enter the net undetected by the Referee, etc. This would also include situations whereby the Referee stops play or is in the process of stopping the play because he has lost sight of the puck and it is subsequently determined by video review that the puck crosses (or has crossed) the goal line and enters the net as the culmination of a continuous play where the result was unaffected by the whistle (i.e., the timing of the whistle was irrelevant to the puck entering the net at the end of a continuous play).

Nashville could have reviewed it and it could have counted.
- jmatchett383

Doubt they change it. Not sure I'm for it being changed either.
Penguins have 5 Stanley cups now. They really lucked out with Matt Murray and a slew of other players. Mind you they won the cup sans Chris Letang. They have 2 superstars on their team and a top league winger in Kessel. Kessel is the best player immediately on several other teams in the league. Must be nice to have 4 generational players over the course of only my lifetime.

It's officially the offseason and there is little no to arguing happening in here.

Disgraceful.
- Mordecai

these truly are joyous times.

I think Giroux still has a good 4-6 years of being a top-6 player (team-wide, not league). If one of Patrick/Hischier takes over as the #1, that means Giroux's QOC decreases. Also, he's still a top PP scorer in the league. So I think it may actually increase his time here.
- jmatchett383

I don't know about the 4-6 years. his skating worries me a little as he ages. And if say Patrick comes in and starts to take over more minutes, wouldn't that also cut into Girouxs minutes, 5v5 and PP?

Just curious. The number 2 pick has kind of changed the outlook now since your possibly getting an impact player instead of one that might need time.

I read that as Nashville couldn't challenge but the refs could've done something about it themselves.
- Scoob

Maybe. Still, although it's a bit obscure, if Lavi or one of his assistants knew of the clause, they could have mentioned it to the refs. Then again, the refs should know it.

But that rule seems to directly contradict the "intent to blow the whistle" rule, no?

The # 2 pick should expedite the Cup process by a few years. Getting an Eichel/Laine type is enormous.
- PLindbergh31

Take out that sack of poop Ottawa team that only got to where it did by playing sack of poop hockey, you see just how much talent it takes to win it all.

Flyers have a long way to go, but they will be on an up-swing soon enough. The question will be whether they have enough talent to get over that hump. We shall see.

Pittsburgh and Chicago will decline over the next few years as their stars age, the Flyers will hopefully be coming to replace them. Edmonton is a big threat that is coming.

Article on potential Fleury moves...

************

Fleury won’t budge and the Penguins are forced to expose Murray

This is the bad option. And it won’t happen. But it’s worth pointing out to demonstrate that Fleury does have leverage in this situation and will need some sort of incentive to waive his no-movement or no-trade clause.

After a season in which General Manager Jim Rutherford, Fleury and his agent, Allan Walsh, spent time discussing solutions to this dilemma, it’s unlikely Fleury digs in his heels and refuses to cooperate. But he could and that would create problems.

Fleury can name 18 teams to which he’d accept a trade. In theory, he could only name teams secure in their goaltending situations, effectively barring a deal. That moves the Penguins to their next decision point, but again there is no reality in which Murray is exposed in the expansion draft.

The Penguins will not let Murray go and get nothing in return. They would sooner trade him. And Rutherford would probably choose self-flagellation even before that. But what if …

Fleury won’t budge and the Penguins are offered a big trade package for Murray

This too is highly, highly unlikely. But there’s always the potential for teams to do crazy things, such as offer Pittsburgh a ridiculous package for Murray.

Fair market value is probably something north of a top-10 pick in the coming NHL draft. The Canucks traded Cory Schneider for the ninth pick in the 2013 draft. Murray is younger and has a more team-friendly contract as well as two Stanley Cups on his résumé. Pittsburgh would have to be enticed by (much) more than that — including assets that could help it win immediately.

As of now, Pittsburgh only has three defensemen under contract next season and depth on the blue line has been the biggest issue the Penguins have navigated the past several seasons. Of course, they’ve “dealt with it,” by winning two Stanley Cups. Would a team such as, say, Winnipeg — which could be really good with a strong netminder — be willing to part with a top-four defenseman plus Marko Dano (a potential expansion draft victim himself) in exchange for Murray? That’s completely hypothetical, but for the Penguins to even entertain the idea, it would have to be a massive haul.

Smart money says this ain’t happening, though. Moving on.

Fleury waives his no-trade clause to be dealt to another non-Vegas team

The Penguins will not get anything close to the haul they’d get from dealing Murray, but they would get something and also keep him. If they can achieve the latter, that’s a win. The former is a bonus.

Given the limited size of the goalie trading market and Fleury’s no-trade clause, realistically, he has to okay any deal. The pool of teams looking for a starting goalie doesn’t make that prospect too optimistic, though.

Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, Buffalo, Philadelphia and maybe the New York Islanders figure to be in the market. Fleury would probably prefer a team capable of at least competing for the playoffs, which strikes the Canucks and, probably, the Sabres, from the list. It’s highly unlikely the Penguins would trade Fleury within the division, so now we’re down to two teams and the next player who requests a trade to Winnipeg will be the first, even though the Jets could be really good with a consistent goaltender.

Still, working out a deal with anyone is probably the best-case scenario for the Penguins. There just doesn’t seem to be a clear trading partner.

Fleury waives his no-trade clause and is taken by the Knights in the expansion draft

For this to happen, Pittsburgh will have to find some incentive for him to waive the no-movement clause. But what?

With a contract running through the next two seasons, Fleury isn’t yet eligible to sign an extension. So there would be nothing to guarantee Fleury a solid new contract should his play plummet while an expansion team endures its growing pains. And if Fleury has no interest in playing in the desert, this is a non-starter.

Fleury — and Walsh — aren’t just going to give the Penguins a get-out-of-jail-free card for nothing. Fleury needs to get his back scratched somehow. But again, how? That brings us to the most likely end to the impending drama.

Fleury refuses to waive his no-movement clause and is bought out by the Penguins

This is the simplest avenue that has a clear benefit to Fleury and the Penguins. Pittsburgh could protect Murray. Fleury gets paid out in full, gets to handpick his next team and can then make even more money by signing a new deal while two years younger than if he had played out the current deal somewhere.

It wouldn’t be ideal for the Penguins, but it would definitely allow them to avoid the worst-case scenario of losing Murray for nothing. And that’s what this whole exercise is truly about.

https://www.washingtonpos...a/?utm_term=.4fab7df00cee

Maybe. Still, although it's a bit obscure, if Lavi or one of his assistants knew of the clause, they could have mentioned it to the refs. Then again, the refs should know it.

But that rule seems to directly contradict the "intent to blow the whistle" rule, no?
- jmatchett383

It was a stupid call, that we seem to be seeing more and more of. I dont blame anyone for questioning the way this league is officiated, its becoming a laughing stock.

Do think the Pens would have taken this series regardless. They took over in game 5, and it also felt like it in game 6. Good for them.

Article on potential Fleury moves...

************

Fleury won’t budge and the Penguins are forced to expose Murray

This is the bad option. And it won’t happen. But it’s worth pointing out to demonstrate that Fleury does have leverage in this situation and will need some sort of incentive to waive his no-movement or no-trade clause.

After a season in which General Manager Jim Rutherford, Fleury and his agent, Allan Walsh, spent time discussing solutions to this dilemma, it’s unlikely Fleury digs in his heels and refuses to cooperate. But he could and that would create problems.

Fleury can name 18 teams to which he’d accept a trade. In theory, he could only name teams secure in their goaltending situations, effectively barring a deal. That moves the Penguins to their next decision point, but again there is no reality in which Murray is exposed in the expansion draft.

The Penguins will not let Murray go and get nothing in return. They would sooner trade him. And Rutherford would probably choose self-flagellation even before that. But what if …

Fleury won’t budge and the Penguins are offered a big trade package for Murray

This too is highly, highly unlikely. But there’s always the potential for teams to do crazy things, such as offer Pittsburgh a ridiculous package for Murray.

Fair market value is probably something north of a top-10 pick in the coming NHL draft. The Canucks traded Cory Schneider for the ninth pick in the 2013 draft. Murray is younger and has a more team-friendly contract as well as two Stanley Cups on his résumé. Pittsburgh would have to be enticed by (much) more than that — including assets that could help it win immediately.

As of now, Pittsburgh only has three defensemen under contract next season and depth on the blue line has been the biggest issue the Penguins have navigated the past several seasons. Of course, they’ve “dealt with it,” by winning two Stanley Cups. Would a team such as, say, Winnipeg — which could be really good with a strong netminder — be willing to part with a top-four defenseman plus Marko Dano (a potential expansion draft victim himself) in exchange for Murray? That’s completely hypothetical, but for the Penguins to even entertain the idea, it would have to be a massive haul.

Smart money says this ain’t happening, though. Moving on.

Fleury waives his no-trade clause to be dealt to another non-Vegas team

The Penguins will not get anything close to the haul they’d get from dealing Murray, but they would get something and also keep him. If they can achieve the latter, that’s a win. The former is a bonus.

Given the limited size of the goalie trading market and Fleury’s no-trade clause, realistically, he has to okay any deal. The pool of teams looking for a starting goalie doesn’t make that prospect too optimistic, though.

Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, Buffalo, Philadelphia and maybe the New York Islanders figure to be in the market. Fleury would probably prefer a team capable of at least competing for the playoffs, which strikes the Canucks and, probably, the Sabres, from the list. It’s highly unlikely the Penguins would trade Fleury within the division, so now we’re down to two teams and the next player who requests a trade to Winnipeg will be the first, even though the Jets could be really good with a consistent goaltender.

Still, working out a deal with anyone is probably the best-case scenario for the Penguins. There just doesn’t seem to be a clear trading partner.

Fleury waives his no-trade clause and is taken by the Knights in the expansion draft

For this to happen, Pittsburgh will have to find some incentive for him to waive the no-movement clause. But what?

With a contract running through the next two seasons, Fleury isn’t yet eligible to sign an extension. So there would be nothing to guarantee Fleury a solid new contract should his play plummet while an expansion team endures its growing pains. And if Fleury has no interest in playing in the desert, this is a non-starter.

Fleury — and Walsh — aren’t just going to give the Penguins a get-out-of-jail-free card for nothing. Fleury needs to get his back scratched somehow. But again, how? That brings us to the most likely end to the impending drama.

Fleury refuses to waive his no-movement clause and is bought out by the Penguins

This is the simplest avenue that has a clear benefit to Fleury and the Penguins. Pittsburgh could protect Murray. Fleury gets paid out in full, gets to handpick his next team and can then make even more money by signing a new deal while two years younger than if he had played out the current deal somewhere.

It wouldn’t be ideal for the Penguins, but it would definitely allow them to avoid the worst-case scenario of losing Murray for nothing. And that’s what this whole exercise is truly about.

https://www.washingtonpos...a/?utm_term=.4fab7df00cee
- wolfhounds

that breakdown is thorough as (frank).

this situation used to worry me a lot, but im not overly concerned over it anymore. Murray will be the starting goaltender for the pens next year.

Maybe. Still, although it's a bit obscure, if Lavi or one of his assistants knew of the clause, they could have mentioned it to the refs. Then again, the refs should know it.

But that rule seems to directly contradict the "intent to blow the whistle" rule, no?
- jmatchett383

Agree.

Take out that sack of poop Ottawa team that only got to where it did by playing sack of poop hockey, you see just how much talent it takes to win it all.

Flyers have a long way to go, but they will be on an up-swing soon enough. The question will be whether they have enough talent to get over that hump. We shall see.

Pittsburgh and Chicago will decline over the next few years as their stars age, the Flyers will hopefully be coming to replace them. Edmonton is a big threat that is coming.
- flyer_nutter

Toronto is going to be a huge road block going forward for years.

Ottawa gets a bounce in that game 7 OT game in Pittsburgh and they move on.
Sometimes it's not all about talent. Was close to being a Nashville/Ottawa final. No one saw that coming.

It was a stupid call, that we seem to be seeing more and more of. I dont blame anyone for questioning the way this league is officiated, its becoming a laughing stock.

Do think the Pens would have taken this series regardless. They took over in game 5, and it also felt like it in game 6. Good for them.
- flyer_nutter

it was a bad call. i dont think people can argue in good faith that it wasnt. nashville has every right to be pissed about that.

that being said, it cant be completely swept under the rug that the refs did everything in their power to alleviate whatever issue they caused by doling out powerplays in a very unbalanced manner. at some point it ceases being coincidental.