Subban's defense is far better than Boewmeester's and Muzzin's. One look at this year's playoffs shows that and that he's not the hotdogger that he was. I suspect that, when he came to Nashville, he was asked to take on a more defensive role because the team already had scoring defensemen, and he's really owned that. Canada could've picked him for the World Cup and asked him to do the same thing.
- Osprey

"Not the hotdogger that he was"???? Did you see him run with the fictional mouthwash story? Did you see him cursing in Crosby's face? Did you see him holding onto Sid's leg while he was getting his head bonked into the ice?

Look, I really like Subban. I think he's a heck of a player who has game-breaking talent. But the fact is, on team Canada, you can say the same thing about most of the guys on that entire team. So, they DON'T choose the "hotdogger". I think it's really that simple.

Let's also be honest about Kadri:

First off, let me say I've actually always been a fan of his. He's always shown the potential to be a better player and I love his compete.

Now, before we start over-valuing him. There should also be the realization that this year could potentially be a blip and he goes back to his normal production next year. For leafs fans sake, I hope not.

He's also gotten a boost with having better line-mates. He could have totally different results playing in COL.
- Rinosaur

Mostly, I think the improvement was due to better coaching. Babcock really challenged Kadri, and Kadri is just one of those players who needs to be pushed. Kadri has responded exceptionally well and Babcock doesn't look surprised at all, so my guess it was part of his mater plan 2 years ago.

Kadri has always had elite skills, he just needed to be a better pro, take care of his body and train/practice harder.

The facts are as follows:

For Duchene's entire career, his team has allowed significantly more shot-attempts, shots, scoring chances and goals when he's been on the ice than they've gotten.

He is an offense only, one dimensional player who is terrible defensively.

His career high is 30 goals and 70 points.

In eight seasons, he's been over 60 points just twice.

Matt Duchene's closest comparable is probably Mike Ribiero, who has six 60 point seasons and a career high of 83. (Career high 27 goals).

Both are fine players, but I think we can agree that Ribiero has never been treated or considered as big a star as Duchene.

Again, if I'm under selling him, anyone is free to offer a counter-analysis that doesn't include him being named to Team Canada, or offers the excuse his team is bad.

Lots of players excel on bad teams. Sidney Crosby once scored 100 points and then his team drafted Malkin.
- james_tanner1

Wanna rethink that one there bud?

Mostly, I think the improvement was due to better coaching. Babcock really challenged Kadri, and Kadri is just one of those players who needs to be pushed. Kadri has responded exceptionally well and Babcock doesn't look surprised at all, so my guess it was part of his mater plan 2 years ago.

Kadri has always had elite skills, he just needed to be a better pro, take care of his body and train/practice harder.
- W_1

He actually was. He said that Kadri is way better than he thought he was.

Advanced stats are not facts. Not yet anyway.
- Rinosaur

You don't need "advanced stats" literally anyway you want to measure a game - shot attempts, shots, goals, scoring chances etc. He comes away a negative.

If you know a way to explain how a one dimensional offensive player is good using something other than goals or the shots that lead to them, I'm all ears.

It's an agenda blog.
- Rinosaur

I couldn't even possibly guess what this means. 9:26 PM: give up and go outside.

Ok to boil everything I just said down. Is he a first line player on an elite team? No. But he's also not paid like it either. But he is a 1C on probably 15-18 teams in the league. At $6M.

He's overpaid compared to Kadri, sure, but he's underpaid. So that's not a good comparison to make.
- Wetbandit1

You're probably right that they're a bad comparison. I only made it because Kadri was drafted after Duchene. I think we even agree on Duchene, my only uh beef I guess is the word, is that people/the media act like Duchene is in the Stamkos/Tavares level of star player and he isn't - he's Mike Ribiero.

Let's also be honest about Kadri:

First off, let me say I've actually always been a fan of his. He's always shown the potential to be a better player and I love his compete.

Now, before we start over-valuing him. There should also be the realization that this year could potentially be a blip and he goes back to his normal production next year. For leafs fans sake, I hope not.

He's also gotten a boost with having better line-mates. He could have totally different results playing in COL.
- Rinosaur

This year, Kadris most common line mates were Komarov and Brown.

Duchenes were Rantanan and Landeskog........so draw..

As to Kadri's production dropping back, if anything, he's been doing this for three years now. The last two years he had a shooting percent that was very low. Specifically the last year when Carlyle was fired Kadri was shooting like 2% into February while putting up a ton of shots and expected-goals.

Mostly, I think the improvement was due to better coaching. Babcock really challenged Kadri, and Kadri is just one of those players who needs to be pushed. Kadri has responded exceptionally well and Babcock doesn't look surprised at all, so my guess it was part of his mater plan 2 years ago.

Kadri has always had elite skills, he just needed to be a better pro, take care of his body and train/practice harder.
- W_1

I love Babock, but the advanced stats say Kadri's the same player he was before Babock got here - he just wasn't getting the results. I wish I could find it, but there was a piece that showed how two years ago Kadri had one of the most unlucky years ever.

He actually was. He said that Kadri is way better than he thought he was.
- Wetbandit1

True. Kadri was one of the players who surprised him when he got there, but if Babcock hadn't believed in him he never would have challenged him to be a more complete player. The process took all of last year, and summer training, for Kadri to get to a point where he really started to excel. Other than Kadri himself, I still give a lot of credit to coaching for the success Kadri has this year.

You don't need "advanced stats" literally anyway you want to measure a game - shot attempts, shots, goals, scoring chances etc. He comes away a negative.

If you know a way to explain how a one dimensional offensive player is good using something other than goals or the shots that lead to them, I'm all ears.
- james_tanner1

Did my earlier post about his 5-on-5 scoring/60 not qualify as such?

I tried for you, James... and you failed me

I love Babock, but the advanced stats say Kadri's the same player he was before Babock got here - he just wasn't getting the results. I wish I could find it, but there was a piece that showed how two years ago Kadri had one of the most unlucky years ever.
- james_tanner1

I'm not much of an advanced stats dude, which is not to say that I don't adhere to their value, just that I'm not as familiar with them as some others are. That being said, Kadri's offensive success this year was mostly from him going to the net or being at the net.

Kadri was more of a perimeter player before, a dangler and a east-west player, and he has a horribly weak shot, so he started battling around the net consistently and it enables him to use his great hands to score. He actually plays a lot more of a north-south game now. A lot of that is player maturation, better strength/balance, and some is great coaching.

You're probably right that they're a bad comparison. I only made it because Kadri was drafted after Duchene. I think we even agree on Duchene, my only uh beef I guess is the word, is that people/the media act like Duchene is in the Stamkos/Tavares level of star player and he isn't - he's Mike Ribiero.
- james_tanner1

Do they? That's not really what I've gotten. Guys with his speed and his ability to score like he has shown he can don't go on the block very often. Maybe that's why it's blown out of proportion. But at this point I see neither Drouin nor Galchenyuk as an overpayment. In 2 or 3 years? Who knows? But you can only work with what you have now. Both those guys have some question marks despite their immense talent.

Ryan O'Reilly was much the same. And he is overpaid, but I blame the Flames for that. They gave him that stupid 2 year deal. And even with the modest raise he got put him at $7.5M per. It's just the way the NHL works.

True. Kadri was one of the players who surprised him when he got there, but if Babcock hadn't believed in him he never would have challenged him to be a more complete player. The process took all of last year, and summer training, for Kadri to get to a point where he really started to excel. Other than Kadri himself, I still give a lot of credit to coaching for the success Kadri has this year.
- W_1

I don't doubt it, but he also had almost no pressure this year. In the sense that he had to do everything. He was able to sit back and play his game and he thrived.

"maybe he'll be the rare player who gets better in his late 20s."

Patrick Eaves
- quackup

Patrick Marleau.

Mike Knuble.

Wanna rethink that one there bud?
- H8terade

Yeah, that was kind of weird.

The difference in Kadri's game is going to the net more. 2 years ago he was taking 40 foot wristers. Nothing to do with luck. Go to high traffic areas you will score. Pretty basic.

Tis is the same man that thinks Klefbom and Sturgeon are better then Kris Letang. Not to be taken seriously.( allows his personal biases to get in the way)

This article makes it seem like you're saying Duchene is not a very good player. I agree that he is overrated, but just the other day you said this in a blog "Somebody is going to buy low on Matt Duchene and reap a crap-load of benefits." How will a team reap a "crap-load of benefits" from a player that is one of the most overrated in the league and puts up just okay underlying numbers?

The facts are as follows:

For Duchene's entire career, his team has allowed significantly more shot-attempts, shots, scoring chances and goals when he's been on the ice than they've gotten.

He is an offense only, one dimensional player who is terrible defensively.

His career high is 30 goals and 70 points.

In eight seasons, he's been over 60 points just twice.

Matt Duchene's closest comparable is probably Mike Ribiero, who has six 60 point seasons and a career high of 83. (Career high 27 goals).

Both are fine players, but I think we can agree that Ribiero has never been treated or considered as big a star as Duchene.

Again, if I'm under selling him, anyone is free to offer a counter-analysis that doesn't include him being named to Team Canada, or offers the excuse his team is bad.

Lots of players excel on bad teams. Sidney Crosby once scored 100 points and then his team drafted Malkin.
- james_tanner1

Dafuq? I may need to Google the pens draft history but I'm pretty sure Malkin was drafted before Crosby. Really showing off your hockey knowledge with this one Jimmy Tan Tan

2016 face offs

1. Duchene - 62.6% / 1100 total
76. Kadri - 48% / 1134 total

Career face off % duchene 52 - Kadri 46

2016 shooting %

Kadri - 13.6
Duchene - 11.3

Career %
Duchene 12.2 v Kadri 11.2

Kadri also had incredible luck on the PP this year, scoring 12 goals.

Career PPG

Duchene .73
Kadri .63

And Duchene's most common line mate in 2016-17? Matt freakin' Nieto.

There isn't a team in the East besides Pit that doesn't install Duchene as their #1 or #2 center immediately and not become better.

Ask Montreal, who couldn't seem to win a big draw with anyone besides Plekanec (Gally @ 35% btw) vs the Rangers.

And all of this figured out with 10 mins on my phone.

You are forgetting something here when comparing Duchene or Stamkos to Hall! Duchene and Stamkos are both centermen (which teams covet more) compared to Hall who is a winger. Duchene also won more faceoffs than most in the NHL which can't be forgotten.

The facts are as follows:

For Duchene's entire career, his team has allowed significantly more shot-attempts, shots, scoring chances and goals when he's been on the ice than they've gotten.

He is an offense only, one dimensional player who is terrible defensively.

His career high is 30 goals and 70 points.

In eight seasons, he's been over 60 points just twice.

Matt Duchene's closest comparable is probably Mike Ribiero, who has six 60 point seasons and a career high of 83. (Career high 27 goals).

Both are fine players, but I think we can agree that Ribiero has never been treated or considered as big a star as Duchene.

Again, if I'm under selling him, anyone is free to offer a counter-analysis that doesn't include him being named to Team Canada, or offers the excuse his team is bad.

Lots of players excel on bad teams. Sidney Crosby once scored 100 points and then his team drafted Malkin.
- james_tanner1

You should consider watching the sport one day instead of looking at your computer and plugging numbers into a spreadsheet. ZERO players would rather have Ribiero on their line rather than Duchesne.

"I agree 100% plus team canada cant really screw up. Matt Duchene is a talented player and you could take 30 other guys and not have it nake a lick of difference.

To everyone else:

When I say he is overrated its in relation to him being revered on , it seems to me, a near Stamkos level of adoration. He is a 3rd overall pick whos been on team Canada and he gets treated like it. Taylor Hall is a much much better player and doesnt .
.

That is how reputation works fat more than reality to shape how these guys are seen.

Duchenes career high is 30 and Kadris is 32."


You are forgetting something here when comparing Duchene or Stamkos to Hall! Duchene and Stamkos are both centermen (which teams covet more) compared to Hall who is a winger. Duchene also won more faceoffs than most in the NHL which can't be forgotten.

Re: Kadri's improvement

I really think it is Babcock's influence. He is like Anthony Robbins dropping F-bombs while slapping you in the face. Kadri (and the rest of them) have learned that it is up to THEM to excel, so yes, they have done it themselves, but Babs planted the seed in between their ears.