No, it's very possible I'm wrong.

But that's not how we do it on HockeyBuzz.

It's all or nothing
- sbroads24

Risto is elite. All or nothing.

I agree that Sam's skating will mean he won't ever reach star status. Liked how he played in the dot last year the couple of times he had the chance. Would like to see him in that role before I say 50 pts is ceiling. Either way I can't see him getting 25 + 45 for 70. Here's to hoping for a pleasant surprise.

Risto is elite. All or nothing.

I agree that Sam's skating will mean he won't ever reach star status. Liked how he played in the dot last year the couple of times he had the chance. Would like to see him in that role before I say 50 pts is ceiling. Either way I can't see him getting 25 + 45 for 70. Here's to hoping for a pleasant surprise.
- RhinoFan

Jamie Benn isn't very fast either.

Jamie Benn isn't very fast either.
- Wetbandit1

He's an elite shooter though. And a damn bulldozer.

What?
- chilliard77

Sure, and that's a fine idea too, but if I can get a top 3 d man for Sam I do it
- sbroads24

Defanitaly but I don't see that happening.

Do we?

Can't Risto be that?
Also... who's Pitt's "great" defenseman?

Brodin-Ristolainen
McCabe-Manson
Guhle-Antipin

That has us 6 deep
Sure, there's no Duncan Keith in there,
But our #6 could be better than their #4

And if some "great" defenseman does become available...
Brodin + Antipin for him?
Or we'd still have Sam & Nylander if the team was looking for a forward
And good prospects like Pu & Asplund
And future draft picks

Why wait around & be mediocre though
Making the RIGHT deals now won't prevent us from making deals in the future

All I gave up was 2 picks in the 1st
- jdfitz77

Obviously not. He'll be fine but he'll need help. you call it waiting around and "being mediocre" i call it patience waiting for the right moment because its the right way to build, especially if you need a game changer or two. That team looks solid on paper, it reminds me of the rangers over the last few years who coincidentally also gave up 1st round picks in back to back years (actually i think they did 3 years in a row no?).

He's an elite shooter though. And a damn bulldozer.
- sbroads24

Bingo!!!

He's a good player, and will have a long career. Trust me I would love to be wrong about his ceiling
- sbroads24

But if we can trade for 2 defensemen that are top4 guys without moving him... then why not do it that way & see what Sam will become?

I'd rather move #8 overall
and next year's 1st

Sam is already pretty good
I'm not really wanting to wait 3 years or so to see if guys we haven't drafted yet will even be as good as Same, let alone better

Obviously not. He'll be fine but he'll need help. you call it waiting around and "being mediocre" i call it patience waiting for the right moment because its the right way to build, especially if you need a game changer or two. That team looks solid on paper, it reminds me of the rangers over the last few years who coincidentally also gave up 1st round picks in back to back years (actually i think they did 3 years in a row no?).
- Sabresfan-365

Can #8 get us this "game changer" you're talking about?
Next year's 1st should be a worse pick...
what makes u think either of them get us the game changer we are waiting for?

And like i said...
we'd still have plenty of other assets to use should a great player become available

Jamie Benn isn't very fast either.
- Wetbandit1

True, I'd make the same argument in that they play different styles. Benn is much more physically imposing than Reinhart and so he can get away with being "caught" by other players. Benn has the physicality but poor skating...Samson doesn't really have either. Samson has to use his creativity which is a big part of his appeal, but that also only goes so far when you're missing both aforementioned traits.

Interesting point with Benn though, check out their rookie seasons:

Reinhart 79g 17g 30a = 47p
Benn 82g 22g 19a = 41p

Now Benn came back the next year and put up 56 in 69 games while Rhino only managed 47 in 79 games...But Benn's big jump didn't come until he was in his 5th year where he had 79pts in 81games. Goes to show that players do develop at different rates...or maybe just that superstars don't necessarily show themselves right away.

Can #8 get us this "game changer" you're talking about?
Next year's 1st should be a worse pick...
what makes u think either of them get us the game changer we are waiting for?

And like i said...
we'd still have plenty of other assets to use should a great player become available
- jdfitz77

And then when everyone wants to get paid in a few years and we dont have anyone in the cupboards for cheap that can fill in spots, what then? I dont get it, the formula is written on the wall. Look at all the best teams. 5-6 top guys getting paid big bucks. Pick em. Whoever you want.... Then gotta have a farm team to fill out the rest of the roster. Need to hit on 1-2 to be better than average too really good every few years. Get 1-2 FA each year to play good to better than expected. Get a capable goalie. Trade all your TOP picks for needs while hoping your previous draft picks turn out..... First round exit.....

True, I'd make the same argument in that they play different styles. Benn is much more physically imposing than Reinhart and so he can get away with being "caught" by other players. Benn has the physicality but poor skating...Samson doesn't really have either. Samson has to use his creativity which is a big part of his appeal, but that also only goes so far when you're missing both aforementioned traits.

Interesting point with Benn though, check out their rookie seasons:

Reinhart 79g 17g 30a = 47p
Benn 82g 22g 19a = 41p

Now Benn came back the next year and put up 56 in 69 games while Rhino only managed 47 in 79 games...But Benn's big jump didn't come until he was in his 5th year where he had 79pts in 81games. Goes to show that players do develop at different rates...or maybe just that superstars don't necessarily show themselves right away.
- RhinoFan

If Reinhart had 1 or those 2 traits Benn has i would keep him in a second. Problem is he has neither. With his IQ and just being in the right areas always, if he could fly or was a beast i think no dount Sam could easily be a 70-80 point guy. Also think Reinhart has a pretty good shot.

And then when everyone wants to get paid in a few years and we dont have anyone in the cupboards for cheap that can fill in spots, what then? I dont get it, the formula is written on the wall. Look at all the best teams. 5-6 top guys getting paid big bucks. Pick em. Whoever you want.... Then gotta have a farm team to fill out the rest of the roster. Need to hit on 1-2 to be better than average too really good every few years. Get 1-2 FA each year to play good to better than expected. Get a capable goalie. Trade all your TOP picks for needs while hoping your previous draft picks turn out..... First round exit.....
- ZiggyBuff

I'm proposing we trade this year's 1st and next year's 1st

Pitt has picked ONCE in the first in the last 4years & they're about to win back to back Cups

Of the 7 picks in the 1st Chicago had after they got Kane...
not ONE played a role in them winning 3 Cups
And only Hartman is still there playing any kind of role at all

I'm about the draft as much as anyone
But if I could just pick a sure fire top4 defenseman in the next 2 drafts,
I'd do it in a heartbeat
Trading for guys that are already top4 just means we don't have to wait for them to develop... or risk that they won't turn out
Seems like a no brainer to me

- GERBE!!!75PTS

What is it, do you smell trouble?

I'm proposing we trade this year's 1st and next year's 1st

Pitt has picked ONCE in the first in the last 4years & they're about to win back to back Cups

Of the 7 picks in the 1st Chicago had after they got Kane...
not ONE played a role in them winning 3 Cups
And only Hartman is still there playing any kind of role at all

I'm about the draft as much as anyone
But if I could just pick a sure fire top4 defenseman in the next 2 drafts,
I'd do it in a heartbeat
Trading for guys that are already top4 just means we don't have to wait for them to develop... or risk that they won't turn out
Seems like a no brainer to me
- jdfitz77

I hear ya. Problem is finding another GM that does. Then you gotta pay those 2 top 4 and rhino when he wants his payday.

He's an elite shooter though. And a damn bulldozer.
- sbroads24

Definitely. But the point is you don't NEED speed to be considered a "star".

I missed Negan

I hear ya. Problem is finding another GM that does. Then you gotta pay those 2 top 4 and rhino when he wants his payday.
- ZiggyBuff

Check this out

https://www.capfriendly.c...m/armchair-gm/team/350482

2 new defensemen in
Jack, Sam & Kane paid for
Plus we even have room to sign a James Neal type if we want

I missed Negan
- chilliard77

Seems right.

What is it, do you smell trouble?
- chilliard77

He's back

Can #8 get us this "game changer" you're talking about?
Next year's 1st should be a worse pick...
what makes u think either of them get us the game changer we are waiting for?

And like i said...
we'd still have plenty of other assets to use should a great player become available
- jdfitz77

hopefully we can draft one with it, in my scenario we're still bottom 10 next year, just scoring more (but giving up more)

They'd be more fun to watch while still in line to add an elite guy. I really like the D class next year, reminds me a lot of 2015.

hopefully we can draft one with it, in my scenario we're still bottom 10 next year, just scoring more (but giving up more)

They'd be more fun to watch while still in line to add an elite guy. I really like the D class next year, reminds me a lot of 2015.
- Sabresfan-365

Time to start winning
No reason to semi-tank to pick 8th again when we could make the playoffs
Besides...
is next year's pick in your scenario really gonna be a star?
Remember the defensemen drafted that year with Myers?
I think it was 4 guys picked in the top 6 that ended up being busts

And not that it's the norm,
But we were 1 goal away from watching 14vs16 for the Cup!

Saves are not far away from the playoffs
Our proposed roster by me is not far off from Nashville's,
Oreven Pitt for that matter

Time to start winning
No reason to semi-tank to pick 8th again when we could make the playoffs
Besides...
is next year's pick in your scenario really gonna be a star?
Remember the defensemen drafted that year with Myers?
I think it was 4 guys picked in the top 6 that ended up being busts

And not that it's the norm,
But we were 1 goal away from watching 14vs16 for the Cup!

Saves are not far away from the playoffs
Our proposed roster by me is not far off from Nashville's,
Oreven Pitt for that matter
- jdfitz77

im not aiming for the playoffs, i want a true contender. 14 vs 16 only on paper, one team backed by the best defencemen we've seen since lidstrom and the other with a stacked ass blueline.

im willing to risk our future on the draft than through trades thats all. When we finally have a full core in place, then they can wheel and deal.

ROR, Eichel, Risto (yes the others are good, they aren't core pieces and even with risto im sorta sticking my neck out there). We need bare minimum one more, probably two.

Welcome Zig. You didn't piss me off but paragraphs make long posts easier to read.
I think it's hard to know what any player will do in the playoffs until they actually play in one. I don't think anyone saw Jake Guentzel's success coming like it did.

I'm still hopeful on Samson although I realize that club is a shrinking one. I'm also on record for supporting keeping Kane, also a somewhat unpopular position.

I agree with your appeal to "fix the D...draft good and give kids a shot". You also brought something up that I'd like to see; people stating before the draft who they would like to take vs those they'd like to avoid. Captain Hindsight is a great GM, but it's much harder to do beforehand.
- PrinceChill

Fake news. Even after Risto blew him up, I thought he would bounce back and hit his stride toward the end of the season/playoffs. He's their Kunitz replacement and then some.

You're all terrible.
- jochfr

The internet made me do it.