im not as big on brodin as most but in general this gives us two defensive, shot suppressing guys. no true offensive puck movers so you're banking on mccabe and risto suddenly becoming 5 on 5 studs offensively.

Betting big on Justin Bailey too who hasnt show anything yet and a past his prime james neal.

Id rather just play it patient
- Sabresfan-365

Like I said...
sub Brodin & Manson for any of the available defensemen available

Same with Neal (who's only 29 I believe, not over the hill by any means)
Nash & JVR are also UFAs next summer

Counting too much on Bailey?
Sheary & Kuhnakel (sp) last year for the Pens, Guentzel this year
Pretty sure Bailey was drafted higher than all of them

Also... remember this is 18-19 we are talking about
Time for Nylander, Baptiste & Bailey to acclimate themselves to the lineup
More NHL time than the Pitt guys

Bailey has scored at every level, 15-20goals here should be reasonable
Same with Baptiste, & I'm very confident in Nylander still

Can't we just sign niederiter instead? I'll take zucker too.
- SabresFaninIndiana

They're both RFAs
In theory we could sign one of them
But we all know how much that happens

It's not a matter of fit, it's a matter of just not being very good.

Reinhart would be fine here for the next 7-10 years being a mediocre top 6 player, or you can try and pull a fast one on a GM who liked him when he came out
- sbroads24

WAY too early to say Sam will only be a mediocre top6 forward

Post more
- sbroads24

Will do. Just saying what the eye see's. Slow does not win. Weak does not win. I see more defenseman changing for the better the longer they play in the league. As for forwards usually you get what you see after the first few years. Theres always that exception...... hopefully Reinharts it if we keep him

Like I said...
sub Brodin & Manson for any of the available defensemen available

Same with Neal (who's only 29 I believe, not over the hill by any means)
Nash & JVR are also UFAs next summer

Counting too much on Bailey?
Sheary & Kuhnakel (sp) last year for the Pens, Guentzel this year
Pretty sure Bailey was drafted higher than all of them

Also... remember this is 18-19 we are talking about
Time for Nylander, Baptiste & Bailey to acclimate themselves to the lineup
More NHL time than the Pitt guys

Bailey has scored at every level, 15-20goals here should be reasonable
Same with Baptiste, & I'm very confident in Nylander still
- jdfitz77

Bogo was drafted 3rd overall, just saying.

Nylander i like so no issue for me there.

And i know we could sub in different d-men in those deals but my point has been that of the names that have come out so far none of them are on the level that we need. Id hate cough up hella assets and then a) see a high end or even elite d-man actually become available (like hamilton) or b) cough up draft picks in back to back years that could have been used on defencemen ( i know you said you could sub those picks out but we really dont have the assets to build a legit package without including our 1st rounders).

WAY too early to say Sam will only be a mediocre top6 forward
- jdfitz77

He's not a good skater, this is a fast league.
I don't see him being much more than a 45-50 point player.

He's not a good skater, this is a fast league.
I don't see him being much more than a 45-50 point player.
- sbroads24

The counter argument here is 50 pt player who can play a strong two way game (or in theory should be able too) in todays nhl is at the very least a good player.

The counter argument here is 50 pt player who can play a strong two way game (or in theory should be able too) in todays nhl is at the very least a good player.
- Sabresfan-365

I have yet to see a strong 2-way player. He's the most sheltered forward we have

I mean, he's fine. Not someone you have to get rid of, but I wouldn't consider trading him a bad thing

They're both RFAs
In theory we could sign one of them
But we all know how much that happens
- jdfitz77

Damn rules..

I have yet to see a strong 2-way player. He's the most sheltered forward we have

I mean, he's fine. Not someone you have to get rid of, but I wouldn't consider trading him a bad thing
- sbroads24

its what bothered me about TM and bylsma the most. Ristolainen got hella defensive minutes....Reinhart got sheltered? what kind of ass backwards system were they running


In general i agree if it can help you address the defence you'd have to entertain it.

You right, my bad bandit. Forgot he only played those 9 games. And yes 2-3 years is not enough. I'm just thinking of what this team needs now and who actually has value to get that. Feel Reinharts a bad fit for this team. He's slow and this teams slow. And this teams short 2 top 4 defenseman that usually take 2- 4 years to develop. Not a good combo.
- ZiggyBuff

I just think people get in their heads that they're going to make all these moves. And history tells us that's not true. They might make a medium size move to get either a 2nd pairing D or to off load someone to Vegas and a bunch of small moves that don't have a major impact.

It's going to be a Kulikov sized move.

We had 3 big trades in 2 years and that skews a lot of things. That's not the norm. Sure big deals happen fairly often, but they don't happen to the same teams all the time.

The only way I see Kane moved this summer is if he's dead set against signing here and has made it known. Otherwise he stays and if they can't get a deal done he gets traded at the TDL.

I have yet to see a strong 2-way player. He's the most sheltered forward we have

I mean, he's fine. Not someone you have to get rid of, but I wouldn't consider trading him a bad thing
- sbroads24

I agree. But if we keep him and put him on the third line that's pretty decent top three centers.

its what bothered me about TM and bylsma the most. Ristolainen got hella defensive minutes....Reinhart got sheltered? what kind of ass backwards system were they running


In general i agree if it can help you address the defence you'd have to entertain it.
- Sabresfan-365

Hey, you got that heat map of Risto on hand?

He got the minutes because who else was going to? Franson? Sure he's fine if you only play him 14 minutes a night. But he would fold faster than a cheap card table under 25 minutes a night.

He's not a good skater, this is a fast league.
I don't see him being much more than a 45-50 point player.
- sbroads24

42 and 47 points in his first two full seasons. I don't think he's peaked quite yet. How many points do you see Bailey and Baptiste topping out at?

42 and 47 points in his first two full seasons. I don't think he's peaked quite yet. How many points do you see Bailey and Baptiste topping out at?
- PrinceChill

Tyler Myers had 48 and 37 in his first two and then hasn't reached that since.

Not every guy develops the same way.

I think this Reinhart is the Reinhart we will always see.

Unless he's a revelation at center

I agree. But if we keep him and put him on the third line that's pretty decent top three centers.
- SabresFaninIndiana

Sure, and that's a fine idea too, but if I can get a top 3 d man for Sam I do it

I agree. But if we keep him and put him on the third line that's pretty decent top three centers.
- SabresFaninIndiana

And there's the rub. Do you want to be strong down the middle and have matchup problems? Or do you want to maybe make a trade for a 2nd pairing guy? We obviously need the defense, but subtracting him also leaves a hole in the FWD ranks.

Tyler Myers had 48 and 37 in his first two and then hasn't reached that since.

Not every guy develops the same way.

I think this Reinhart is the Reinhart we will always see.

Unless he's a revelation at center
- sbroads24

So you're saying not every guy develops the same and then just said he's Tyler Myers. lol

I would move Sam for Brodin and Eriksson-Ek

So you're saying not every guy develops the same and then just said he's Tyler Myers. lol
- Wetbandit1

Yes, I said he's exactly like Tyler Myers

Hey, you got that heat map of Risto on hand?

He got the minutes because who else was going to? Franson? Sure he's fine if you only play him 14 minutes a night. But he would fold faster than a cheap card table under 25 minutes a night.
- Wetbandit1

I wonder who's fault this is... Franson should have seen more d-zone minutes, he was our best shot suppression guy

42 and 47 points in his first two full seasons. I don't think he's peaked quite yet. How many points do you see Bailey and Baptiste topping out at?
- PrinceChill

Points wise I think he is on a good path. But think most of those points was with jack or on the powerplay. Everytime he was on a line without jack or o'reilly last year he was invinsible. Didn't make his linemates better of really put up points. Sure reinhart can be a top 6 forward in the league but not one I would want on my playoff team. As of right now. That's the goal of building a team.

Ok nuff reinhart hate for today......Should we continue with Lehner?

Bogo was drafted 3rd overall, just saying.

Nylander i like so no issue for me there.

And i know we could sub in different d-men in those deals but my point has been that of the names that have come out so far none of them are on the level that we need. Id hate cough up hella assets and then a) see a high end or even elite d-man actually become available (like hamilton) or b) cough up draft picks in back to back years that could have been used on defencemen ( i know you said you could sub those picks out but we really dont have the assets to build a legit package without including our 1st rounders).
- Sabresfan-365

Fair enough, but as far as "scorers" go...
Eichel, O'Reilly, Kane, Reinhart, Okposo, Nylander, probably Baptiste & maybe Neal (or a different guy we might bring in)...
all ahead of Bailey as far as who we are counting on for goals
So how much is my lineup really "counting" on him?

There's good defensemen available now
Waiting for another Hamilton to become available doesn't make sense to me
-we don't know if that'll happen
-if it does, I'm sure we'd have to pay even more than we would now for defensemen that are available... and would we even get him? Other teams will most certainly be in on it
-how much better would this mystery future defenseman be than someone we can get now?

I don't get your reasoning behind waiting

Sub the defensemen out for Trouba & Dumba
Or Faulk & Fowler
Or DeHann & Murray
Or Muzzin & so on & so on

Who do I think that's so much better than all these guys will be worth the wait?

I wonder who's fault this is... Franson should have seen more d-zone minutes, he was our best shot suppression guy
- Sabresfan-365

He was also just as effective offensively.

If only he could skate.....

Fair enough, but as far as "scorers" go...
Eichel, O'Reilly, Kane, Reinhart, Okposo, Nylander, probably Baptiste & maybe Neal (or a different guy we might bring in)...
all ahead of Bailey as far as who we are counting on for goals
So how much is my lineup really "counting" on him?

There's good defensemen available now
Waiting for another Hamilton to become available doesn't make sense to me
-we don't know if that'll happen
-if it does, I'm sure we'd have to pay even more than we would now for defensemen that are available... and would we even get him? Other teams will most certainly be in on it
-how much better would this mystery future defenseman be than someone we can get now?

I don't get your reasoning behind waiting

Sub the defensemen out for Trouba & Dumba
Or Faulk & Fowler
Or DeHann & Murray
Or Muzzin & so on & so on

Who do I think that's so much better than all these guys will be worth the wait?
- jdfitz77

Harsh truth is we need at least one great one. A player like that might become available (long shot i know) more likely we will have to draft and develop one. Hence the patience.