I think it was said elsewhere by another poster, but no problem with the Hawks being "first into the pool" on making a big move. Staying in contention for a deep run requires a serious shakeup. I hate to see Seabrook or Crawford go, but that is the price with the flat-ish cap.

JJ, thanks for all of the insight. I'm with you that Seabrook has a 2-3 year window of being on "top" of his game and would be a difference maker on a team trying to make the leap and win some playoff series(s).

Who catches the biggest prize in "value for value" trades: Seabrook, Panarin or Crawford?
- phantasmo

Agreed. Trying to go big early is smart IMO & likely based heavily on recent experiences with other contracts. Seeing what they can do early gives them more time to go to Plan B (moving some smaller, better value contracts) , if necessary. Can't blame the Hawks at all--at least they seem to be showing that they've learned some lessons.

...still hate to see Seabs go, but understand the $$$

You are wrong. End of story. Do you know how big an NHL hockey ops Dept is and how leaks work? No.

You are entitled to an opinion. But, you're wrong.
- John Jaeckel

OH- so you actually are inferring that it's based on covert leaks !!??


After awhile you'd think bowman would start closing his door when he's on the phone !!

The stuff you guys try and sell is too funny. I get that you need to in an attempt to look viable. with the added mention that you know what a hockey ops dept looks like to prove u your knowledge of course. Like it's totally alien to multitudes of how other corporate offices work.... only a true insider could possibly understand ! funny stuff alright[img][/img]

You have a lot more faith in tight shops and the ability to ferrret out leakers than I do. People talk to or in front of all kinds of folks (nannies, barbers, drivers) and have to do things ahead of announcements or as part of investigating deals which requires l doing things and talking to people. The ripples from those things are many times where the leaks happen and rumors start. They are also sometimes intentional trial balloons to gauge public opinion too. No action to take there. Some rumors are accurate, whether they end up with action taken or not. Other rumors are made up out of whole cloth, others may be errors in interpreting ancillary facts or actions or words, or they may be stale.

EDIT: point is I trust JJ
- Marlowe

You are arguing with someone who has no idea about the local reporters that cover the Hawks. Zawaski is someone the Hawks have used in the past to put stories out. Zawaski also just doesn't report every thing he hears. I would say him tweeting about it lends credence to whatever rumors are flying around.

Does it mean something will happen? You and I both know that isn't necessarily the case.

If Hossa got traded to a "floor" team and retired to go back and play in Slovakia, His "Luongo rule" unused cap hit would accelerate onto Chicago.

That's not gonna work

Only way to shed that deal is to have him LTIR, or trade him to a floor team and have him refuse to report/be suspended and not paid by his new team

He cannot file his NHL retirement papers to aleve the Hawks of the accelerated cap hit or leave the NHL to play elsewhere while under a valid contract

OH- so you actually are inferring that it's based on covert leaks !!??


After awhile you'd think bowman would start closing his door when he's on the phone !!

The stuff you guys try and sell is too funny. I get that you need to in an attempt to look viable.... but yeah- it's funnyb
- HB77

And yet, here you are trying to educate the masses. Thank you for your service.

You assume it is so black and white, when there can be truth to the rumors. My point is that you don't really know which rumors are true or not. You assume you can measure that? I'm not saying some people aren't BS, but some people actually have sources that are on the level and more often correct. Is that so difficult to believe?

Even if someone reported a rumor on a trade possibility that didn't happen, it doesn't mean it wasn't discussed. My point is you don't know and you don't have evidence to say the rumors are false or true.

For all we know the Hawks are putting rumors out there for purpose of making another deal.
- breadbag

what we know through simple math is that way way way more are totally untrue. Like such a bigger number, the true rumours that are purposefully wants us to know are dwarfed.
I totally believe that bowmans aides are told to drum up interest from time to time though

I like Manson, but realistically don't see him as nearly the solid defender in his own end that I suspect others do.

Not saying he wouldn't be a good add (he would), but strictly defensively isn't better than the Hawks current 1-3 IMO
- grinder10

No, but he is coming into his own and made a ton of strides this season. IMO, he is pretty close to this version of Hjalmarsson. Plus, he does bring a physical element that Hammer refuses to use.

LBH, Manson will never be the player Seabrook is or was. But, he is damn good hockey player.

I think Seabrook to Toronto makes sense for Toronto. I mentioned on the last blog that imo Toronto reminded me of the 2009 Blackhawks this season. A player with Seabrooks experience would be an asset for a team who could be a Cup contender next season.
- jhawk159

I don't believe it makes sense for Toronto. His cap hit would make him the Leafs highest paid player and his age doesn't seem to match the curve of the Leafs. Imo

I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly - anyone?) that retained salary must be applicable to the balance of the contract.

So - in your scenario - $2-$3 MM salary (and cap hit) retained for 7 more years.

Doesn't sound like something a Wirtz (even a Rocky one) would want to do.
- StLBravesFan

I don't think any realistic scenarios are going to be ones Blackhawks actually want to do, they are going to be ones they are forced into. I wasn't suggesting the Blackhawks want or are willing to retain salary on Seabrook, just pointing out there is a way to turn him into a positive asset.

I don't believe it makes sense for Toronto. His cap hit would make him the Leafs highest paid player and his age doesn't seem to match the curve of the Leafs. Imo
- walshyleafsfan

Sure it does. In today's NHL you have to take advantage of the ELCs before its time for the 2nd contract. Leafs have a poop ton of cap space this season and going forward.

Doesn't mean I think it will happen.

No, but he is coming into his own and made a ton of strides this season. IMO, he is pretty close to this version of Hjalmarsson. Plus, he does bring a physical element that Hammer refuses to use.

LBH, Manson will never be the player Seabrook is or was. But, he is damn good hockey player.
- TTtime

I do like the sandpaper in his game. There's a lot to like...just not a true 1-3 defender on the Hawks (at least yet)--even though Hammer has dropped off (to my eyes)...not sure why.

I'd add (again) that the coaching staff dropped off as well--they were lost vs the Preds IMO. I know, just can't stop beating that horse. Coach Q has to get his act together just as much as the players

Who catches the biggest prize in "value for value" trades: Seabrook, Panarin or Crawford?
- phantasmo

The value you can get for any of them is cap space. You aren't going to get equivalent on ice value (either now or in the future) AND cap space. Just like the Sharp & Bickell trades.

Sure it does. In today's NHL you have to take advantage of the ELCs before its time for the 2nd contract. Leafs have a poop ton of cap space this season and going forward.

Doesn't mean I think it will happen.
- TTtime

Leafs have no chance to win the cup in the next two years. Seabrook or otherwise. I just don't see the Leafs being interested. We saw this with Sharp last year. Leafs need guys in their prime for the next 5 or so years

I don't think any realistic scenarios are going to be ones Blackhawks actually want to do, they are going to be ones they are forced into. I wasn't suggesting the Blackhawks want or are willing to retain salary on Seabrook, just pointing out there is a way to turn him into a positive asset.
- Antilles

Pretty sure we all aware of that after the last 7 years.

MDC + Dehaan for Panarin??

U get a dman back and a controlled LW prospect

If Hossa got traded to a "floor" team and retired to go back and play in Slovakia, His "Luongo rule" unused cap hit would accelerate onto Chicago.

That's not gonna work

Only way to shed that deal is to have him LTIR, or trade him to a floor team and have him refuse to report/be suspended and not paid by his new team

He cannot file his NHL retirement papers to aleve the Hawks of the accelerated cap hit or leave the NHL to play elsewhere while under a valid contract
- RoloTahmasee

Even that wouldn't work. Once he is suspended, the team can choose to terminate his contract, which works the same as him retiring and cap recapture hits (Similar to Mike Richards situation in LA). Or they can choose to suspend his contract, which means the year being played simply doesn't count, the contract slides to the following year the same way an ELC does (Similar to what the Vladimir Sobotka situation was).

John Jaeckel: About Last Night
- John Jaeckel

I often think when players like Seabs or Crawford sign the big money, long term contracts that they place a bulls-eye on their backs whether there are NMCs or NTCs or not. I don't want Seabs to move but if you want to ensure your time with a team don't max out. How much money is necessary when you are talking about multi-millions of dollars? I am critical of Crawford but part of the equation is he takes 6M out of the Cap. I also thought at the time that the Toews/Kane contracts were insane with respect to another issue - if you two idiots get another idiot Stanbo to give you 21M of the Cap how much money is left for other key player pieces? Is it about winning or money and are Toews and Kane starving if they sign for 7.5m, 8M, 8.5M? Of course not that is insane money especially to play a game.

Are you assuming truth to my assumption of bs ?

That's crazy- just by sheer numbers alone it's crazy that you'd think that.
They hit like 1/100!!

And even if for argument sake we agree these gms do talk endlessly about deals which they know aren't really plausible (which is silly) - how the eff does joe blow insider know ?
Do they hve his office mic'd?
A mole in the room? How long till said gm figures who it is ? A day?
Or are you under the impression that bowman makes sure to pass along the information on every conversation he has to john jaekals contact??

Cmon- it's all just silly.

Sure- theres logic that the he May want to move seabtook. But that's the only concrete logic here. That's not a rumour. That's just common sense
- HB77

Im sure if every conversation they have in Government even when it's closed meeting or a conversation between a FBI director and the President is leaked would it really suprize you that conversation between some Hockey GM's could get leaked

Leafs have no chance to win the cup in the next two years. Seabrook or otherwise. I just don't see the Leafs being interested. We saw this with Sharp last year. Leafs need guys in their prime for the next 5 or so years
- walshyleafsfan

I think they are closer than you realize. The game is different.

Not saying Seabrook specifically but a veteran of his ilk could buy the Leafs time to develop their own young D-men to be ready to bolster the line-up in 2-3 years. While being serious Cup contenders during the process.

The Leafs have forwards up the ass. Their D prospects are pretty meh. And further away at this point in time.

MDC + Dehaan for Panarin??

U get a dman back and a controlled LW prospect
- Ur Not Me

NO

Even that wouldn't work. Once he is suspended, the team can choose to terminate his contract, which works the same as him retiring and cap recapture hits (Similar to Mike Richards situation in LA). Or they can choose to suspend his contract, which means the year being played simply doesn't count, the contract slides to the following year the same way an ELC does (Similar to what the Vladimir Sobotka situation was).
- Antilles

The Yotes took on Datsyuk this season. So it can be done.

The Yotes took on Datsyuk this season. So it can be done.
- TTtime

Datsyuk was a 35+ contract, with no cap recapture penalties. Totally different situation.

Pretty sure we all aware of that after the last 7 years.
- TTtime

We never get the ice cream (i.e. what we want). We only get broccoli.

We never get the ice cream (i.e. what we want). We only get broccoli.
- Marlowe

Yeah, all that silver, Cup shaped broccoli in 2010, 2013, & 2015. However did you manage?

Im sure if every conversation they have in Government even when it's closed meeting or a conversation between a FBI director and the President is leaked would it really suprize you that conversation between some Hockey GM's could get leaked
- HamiltonHawk

Purposefully leaked ?
Or in the name of information on potentially unlawful/nefarious activity ? Happens all the time

And as I mentioned, in the nhls case- purposefully leaked info does happen from time to time. Drum up interest- bidding war etc.
But in relation to the glut of rumours out there. It's almost an insignificant total in comparison.

And of course there are operational leaks totally unintended. But that number would be even more infinitesimal in relation

It's really no biggie- people (especially the "insiders" themselves ) get so worked up when their guy gets called out.
I just find it funny when they represent themselves as something simple logic tells they obviously aren't . Jaekal will always mention prof of his correct predictions-- but what about the other thousand times you weren't ? Where's that reference ??
Even the zawaskis or the stauffers (edmonton guy) who are in some semi close contact with the organization. Moreso than most anyway. I can understand somewhat higher level of credence. But more often than not it's just total guesswork