Strongly disagree
Murray spent a lot of our tradable assets
You have been very hard on him for some of his trades...
so I'd think you'd agree that any assets we are gonna move now,
had better be for players who work out

Let's just say #8 could get us a number of different guys
Obviously you will like some of the guys better than others
- jdfitz77

Yes, of course, but that's what I mean, an upgrade to what we have currently should be welcomed.

Jake Muzzin is a clear upgrade to ANY d man on this team besides #55, and that's even up for debate.

last I checked, Kane was pretty good at scoring goals 5 on 5


that is if 5 on 5 play matters much
- homiedclown

He's just still bitter, let it go.

So you get a player with ROR's talent, unproven, for ROR and another high 1st.

No.

Use 8 and a mid level prospect to get up to 3 or 4 for Heiskanen. If he's not your guy, use the pick to get another top 4 dman.

Use a pick and a player to get Josh Manson.
- TheSabresTaco

Manson is one of the guys on the top of my wish list
Idk if they'd trade him though?

Sup people? Everybody still playing armchair GM?

The reason this debate will last forever is because of these variables

-Top 4 D are worth more than most wingers. (i.e. Larsson for Hall)
-LW is harder to replace than RW
-Kane is very good at 5v5 but not very good on special teams
-This team desperately needs 5v5 talent
-Kane is a fast, aggressive sniper who is there to score goals and drive possession. His strength, speed and ability are very difficult to replace as one player. There are very few players in this league that have his combination of attributes
-using him as a trade chip might be one of our best opportunities to get a defenseman that will help this team for the long term.
-His contract and demands, coupled with his past off ice issues and alleged locker room issues drive his value down, meaning he's worth more today to the Sabres than to a different team that doesn't know him and hasn't already had him in their lineup

With all of these factors, an agreement will never, ever be made.

We'll know Kane's fate soon enough, and I'm certain Bots has a pulse on the entire situation.
- TheSabresTaco

i strongly agreed with everything until this. i dont have a feel for how real nhl gms view kane. i get the feeling from reading several boards regularly over several years that virtually every other teams fans continue to view him as a cancer that makes too much money and is prone to injuries and serious lapses in judgement. i like him more than most, but im not willing to say that he returns much at all. if you are the gm that trades something decent for him, you are tying a noose, putting it around your neck, and handing kane the other end of the rope. if it doesnt work out, it will end badly.

i cant see him signing an extension at a reasonable hit, which would help his value. he has every reason to bet that one of 31 gms will give him a stupid contract in ufa next summer.

Not missing the point at all. But to keep jamming the reset button is spinning tires for a franchise that should arguably be playing in the playoffs this season based on predictions set a few years ago might not be the best management decision.
- TheSabresTaco

what about the eye test of this team after 3 years of murray's moves?


I was not impressed with okposo, as a first line winger
Not impressed with ROR as a first line center
Not impressed with Lehner, esp in the shoot outs
Not impressed with Bogo, Kulikov or Gorges



If they can shed Bogo, I am ok bringing Franson back for the bottom pair


but all in all, the prospect pool is thin, and we have players on lines higher than they should be on, like 3 years ago

Yes, of course, but that's what I mean, an upgrade to what we have currently should be welcomed.

Jake Muzzin is a clear upgrade to ANY d man on this team besides #55, and that's even up for debate.
- sbroads24

You keep missing the point
Just bc he's better than McCabe...
doesn't mean he's better than Fowler, Manson, Brodin, etc etc

There's certainly arguments to be made for whoever
But there's nothing wrong with anyone preferring someone other than Muzzin

Strongly disagree
Murray spent a lot of our tradable assets
You have been very hard on him for some of his trades...
so I'd think you'd agree that any assets we are gonna move now,
had better be for players who work out

Let's just say #8 could get us a number of different guys
Obviously you will like some of the guys better than others
- jdfitz77

Getting an established D would be great. But what about a prospect that's had one or two years of development? Someone who could be ready to play this year? A Travis Sanheim, Shea Theodore or what about Damon Severson or Ryan Murray?

Jake Muzzin is a clear upgrade to ANY d man on this team besides #55, and that's even up for debate.
- sbroads24

agreed, but there are better options from other teams


it's like the last call at the bar, do you settle to take something home you wouldn't normally do, or wait til the next night to try to get something better

You keep missing the point
Just bc he's better than McCabe...
doesn't mean he's better than Fowler, Manson, Brodin, etc etc

There's certainly arguments to be made for whoever
But there's nothing wrong with anyone preferring someone other than Muzzin
- jdfitz77

Getting an established D would be great. But what about a prospect that's had one or two years of development? Someone who could be ready to play this year? A Travis Sanheim, Shea Theodore or what about Damon Severson or Ryan Murray?
- TheSabresTaco

now your talking

Sup people? Everybody still playing armchair GM?
- Buffalo--Sabres

pissing contests


"water " is warm

what about the eye test of this team after 3 years of murray's moves?


I was not impressed with okposo, as a first line winger
Not impressed with ROR as a first line center
Not impressed with Lehner, esp in the shoot outs
Not impressed with Bogo, Kulikov or Gorges



If they can shed Bogo, I am ok bringing Franson back for the bottom pair


but all in all, the prospect pool is thin, and we have players on lines higher than they should be on, like 3 years ago
- homiedclown

Okposo is fine.
ROR is fine.
Lehner is fine (outside of SOs)
Defense sucks.

Our priority is defense. The world knows it. You're not trading those guys for your run of the mill top 4 dmen. There are other ways to get veterans as well as prospects and young pros. We'll get one without stripping our highly paid top 6 center.

Getting an established D would be great. But what about a prospect that's had one or two years of development? Someone who could be ready to play this year? A Travis Sanheim, Shea Theodore or what about Damon Severson or Ryan Murray?
- TheSabresTaco

Issue is every team wants that. Three of the four players you mentioned are auto-protected by expansion draft, so no way they move unless you overpay by a ton. (that is their depth at that position and if they can only protect 3 D men, they will want / need that depth).

I WANT that too, but every team does and it will not be cheap. Develop your own and sign a stop gap should be the way we go. We cannot afford to trade more prospects and picks (unless it's 1 for 1, which it wont be).

Issue is every team wants that. Three of the four players you mentioned are auto-protected by expansion draft, so no way they move unless you overpay by a ton. (that is their depth at that position and if they can only protect 3 D men, they will want / need that depth).

I WANT that too, but every team does and it will not be cheap. Develop your own and sign a stop gap should be the way we go. We cannot afford to trade more prospects and picks (unless it's 1 for 1, which it wont be).
- Lilroot9

My post has nothing to do with the expansion draft. You trade for those guys. You gauge the market and see if you can make the right offer. Theodore can't seem to make the roster full time. Murray is talented and gets hurt. There's a ton of guys that have warts that you don't realize, and their value can be matched because of this.

Okposo is fine.
ROR is fine.
Lehner is fine (outside of SOs)
Defense sucks.

Our priority is defense. The world knows it. You're not trading those guys for your run of the mill top 4 dmen. There are other ways to get veterans as well as prospects and young pros. We'll get one without stripping our highly paid top 6 center.
- TheSabresTaco

Something to consider as well...
there will be teams with Cap issues this offseason
Minny for example
So even if we don't get one of their defensemen for expansion reasons...
maybe we can still get one at some point this summer?
Especially if we took a guy like Pommer as well to give them Cap relief

agreed, but there are better options from other teams


it's like the last call at the bar, do you settle to take something home you wouldn't normally do, or wait til the next night to try to get something better
- homiedclown

Sure, but do those teams want what we have?

15 teams will be calling ANA, LA, Minny CAR etc.

We have to outbid if we want to get someone

Issue is every team wants that. Three of the four players you mentioned are auto-protected by expansion draft, so no way they move unless you overpay by a ton. (that is their depth at that position and if they can only protect 3 D men, they will want / need that depth).

I WANT that too, but every team does and it will not be cheap. Develop your own and sign a stop gap should be the way we go. We cannot afford to trade more prospects and picks (unless it's 1 for 1, which it wont be).
- Lilroot9

And here's the problem. There's no one to develop. Guhle? Borgen? Cliff.

Getting an established D would be great. But what about a prospect that's had one or two years of development? Someone who could be ready to play this year? A Travis Sanheim, Shea Theodore or what about Damon Severson or Ryan Murray?
- TheSabresTaco

Sure...
but it's even more unlikely those type guys get traded this summer
I'm open to it if possible though

pissing contests


"water " is warm
- homiedclown

Doesn't matter to what they do with Kane, we still are screwed up front if we get a D man in the deal. Add to the defense but still leaves a big hole upfront that we can't fill. This team is not built to handle teams in the east as it it is.

pissing contests


"water " is warm
- homiedclown

That reminds me. I was at a camping trip this past weekend. Buddy's girlfriend sat around the campfire till 3am arguing with everybody about everything(no drink in hand mind you). At one point it rained for a moment. She then sat there and argued with 4 grown people that it didn't actually rain. Meanwhile her man had been passed out in bed for hours. Fun times.

Sure, but do those teams want what we have?

15 teams will be calling ANA, LA, Minny CAR etc.

We have to outbid if we want to get someone
- sbroads24

What 15 teams have open slots where they could protect a defenseman they'd trade for?

Of course everyone wants to improve their defense...
but not that many are actually in position to take advantage of expansion

And here's the problem. There's no one to develop. Guhle? Borgen? Cliff.
- TheSabresTaco

Kane

for

Jake Mussin
Juuso Valimaki (D) (11th overall pick)
Dustin Brown (and his cap hit)

And taking Cale Maker (D) at 8th.

Talk about D problem solved in a couple years for many many years to come!

My post has nothing to do with the expansion draft. You trade for those guys. You gauge the market and see if you can make the right offer. Theodore can't seem to make the roster full time. Murray is talented and gets hurt. There's a ton of guys that have warts that you don't realize, and their value can be matched because of this.
- TheSabresTaco

I am not sure you could create a trade that is not a huge over payment to get one of those guys.

That reminds me. I was at a camping trip this past weekend. Buddy's girlfriend sat around the campfire till 3am arguing with everybody about everything(no drink in hand mind you). At one point it rained for a moment. She then sat there and argued with 4 grown people that it didn't actually rain. Meanwhile her man had been passed out in bed for hours. Fun times.
- Buffalo--Sabres

I'd hate to see the drunken campfire debates this group would get in!
(Myself included)
Hahaha