I think Hayden would be miscast as a top-6 forward and doing this fits the perspective in recent years that Hawk youngsters have been forced to play in roles that are beyond their current development trajectory or simply above what they will ever provide no matter how many years of NHL service they have.

Personally, I believe Hayden will end up being an effective bottom-6 forward, likely as a 4th liner agitator with other similar forwards.

And agree with you and Darth that Schmaltz is the likely candidate to center Kane if Anisimov gets shipped out and no other top-6 center is acquired.
- AEL_Fox

I just haven't seen enough of Hayden to project him anywhere. Had one nice goal in the regular season, seems to skate OK, good size. OK. Just not enough to say what kind of player he'll be or if he'll even stick long term. Probably but too early to say definitively.

Some truisms from reading lots of commentary here over the last few weeks since eliminated and looking to 2017/18:

Stan is boxed in a corner again. We're over the cap (amount to be determined, but over in any case).
Very few chess pieces for Stan to really move to improve in my opinion.
Toews, Kane, Hoss, Keith not going anywhere any time.
Seabs stuck here due to new contract
Craw won't cooperate on moving.
AA and Hammer are NOT moves to improve. If you trade Hammer, you'll need another quality D to fill a hole immediately. You'll end up replacing Hammer w half his value at 75% of his cost. Some $3m player that can't carry his jockstrap. Doesnt help. Similar for AA. Trade him and all we'll be talking about is how weak we are up the middle. He isn't Malkin, but he is a really solid fill at 2C at a reasonable price for a 2C.
Which brings us to Panarin. Yes, that's an available move. Sure hate to lose his sniper ability. But I think that can be (mostly) replaced for half the cost.
Sure wish we could lose Craw.

My conclusion:
1. Losing Kruger is just shaving off our cap overage. Subtraction, doesnt get under cap, team is worse.
2. Gotta trade Panarin for a $3m LW, and a top prospect that can be a top 6 at $1m for a couple years.
3. Trade AA only if we can identify a high quality vet C to fit in...Vermette quality.
4. Not many other moves available.
- Cmonalready

All very much in my own opinion but, AA is easier to replace than Panarin. His value might never be higher and realistically he is a 3C playing with two world class wingers. The guys he is playing with inflate his #s to that of a typical 2C, but Kane/Panarin don't need AA to be effective. They played well anytime AA has been on the shelf.

For those who like them, there are advanced stats behind it. At 5v5, things like puck possession and shots for and against all are better for Kane/Panarin when not playing with AA. Also AA's stats take a dip when not playing with Panarin/Kane.

For Kane, he spent about 61% of his even strength time playing with 15 & 72, but only 44% of his even strength scoring came from that line combination on the ice. AA was handed a golden opportunity, playing with Kane/Panarin, getting way more offensive zone starts and the Hawks should take advantage of trading AA while he looks good on paper. Panarin put up 61 goals at LW in the last 2 seasons...you won't find that for 3 million. Trade him and you might be going from 1 legit top 6 LW to 0.

I just haven't seen enough of Hayden to project him anywhere. Had one nice goal in the regular season, seems to skate OK, good size. OK. Just not enough to say what kind of player he'll be or if he'll even stick long term. Probably but too early to say definitively.
- John Jaeckel

No disagreement here. We saw that play out with Motte last year and Baun in years prior. Had some moments with the big club but further development in Rockford was the best option for them. Even after time on the farm, they could still not pan out.

My hope is they will but the more time you spend on the farm, the more opportunity there is for other prospects to leap frog over you or free agent signees to fill NHL roles sooner.

McNeill seems like a perfect example of this. Then again, he also didn't seize the chances given to him to outshine other prospects.

What would it take for a team to pry Toews out of Chicago?

What would it take for a team to pry Toews out of Chicago?
- Croft_31

I don't think Montreal would have the assets to pull off a move like that. It would cost some solid, NHL ready young talent.

What would it take for a team to pry Toews out of Chicago?
- Croft_31

go backwards in the blog posts

I don't think Montreal would have the assets to pull off a move like that. It would cost some solid, NHL ready young talent.
- DarthKane

I would surmise, it would also mean player(s) with higher than minimum NHL salary, due to 19 being the highest paid guy in the league.

On Hayden:

I have to agree with JJ at this juncture, but the fact they sat him down pretty quick after attempting to expect him to catalyst as lightning in a bottle in the top six.

He got himself enough of a taste that I suspect he knows exactly what he has to improve on before camp to BE a player.

Rarely do you see wingers brought up ala Panarin and stick right away as top wingers....they spend time facilating back and forth from the AHL and up and down the roles to see just what they expertise is at each juncture.

I doubt Hayden has already worn out his chances but I bet he will have to have to mess will with linemate(s).

The 'hawks were fortunate that there seemed to be growth in their rookie call ups so that is more positive than little production the initial year, and expecting them to suddenly make a qualitative jump.

All the NHl teams will have guys they are either protecting or are about to have to re-up and though they showed successes, they will have to continue up the developmental chain.

Even in the Central, there are so many players, many that their teams are counting on as future scorers, that if they seem to not have the chops / ability to succed in that high level role will be asked to adapt as players who fill different roles...

Las Vegas might attempt to make deals for draft picks and not making claims on established clubs favorite sons....but what if a team refuses to ante up the exact round payment? Does he simply draft said player and try an find an established club for him, or revel in the fact he acquired him, and "a protection deal could be reached..."

Would if LV GM George McPhee decides he wants to go after an RFA or two out there?

I am pretty sure there is more than one youngster out there that wants to play establish himself and get playing minutes and might be willing to play the new club against his present owners.

Sure, it's been pretty much a unwritten rule to not mess with the other guys RFAs, but besides poaching, there maybe one of two who might never get their asking price from the parent club, but LV might pay.

To me, money spent there is better than a fat established NHLer in the downward spiral.

And the idea of what McPhee HAS asked for to by-pass players...so far, we don't know what that is, and is he going to be consistent?
If a BETTER club has a REALLY good available, surely McPhee wants more than what he charges say the Islanders, right?

What would it take for a team to pry Toews out of Chicago?
- Croft_31

I don't think Montreal would have the assets to pull off a move like that. It would cost some solid, NHL ready young talent.
- DarthKane

How about Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, and Danault?

Do the Islanders have any desirable assets?

Panarin and Anisimov for Lee, Nelson, pick? Maybe something revolving around Hamonic?

C/W forwards with size both at ~50 pts... isles get a winger for Tavares and center to replace their loss.

Does a trade like this make any sense to either team?

Do the Islanders have any desirable assets?
- 93Joe

NO
they are having trouble finding three defenders to protect...

Las Vegas might attempt to make deals for draft picks and not making claims on established clubs favorite sons....but what if a team refuses to ante up the exact round payment? Does he simply draft said player and try an find an established club for him, or revel in the fact he acquired him, and "a protection deal could be reached..."

Would if LV GM George McPhee decides he wants to go after an RFA or two out there?

I am pretty sure there is more than one youngster out there that wants to play establish himself and get playing minutes and might be willing to play the new club against his present owners.

Sure, it's been pretty much a unwritten rule to not mess with the other guys RFAs, but besides poaching, there maybe one of two who might never get their asking price from the parent club, but LV might pay.

To me, money spent there is better than a fat established NHLer in the downward spiral.

And the idea of what McPhee HAS asked for to by-pass players...so far, we don't know what that is, and is he going to be consistent?
If a BETTER club has a REALLY good available, surely McPhee wants more than what he charges say the Islanders, right?
- wiz1901

I believe can Vegas sign a RFA that's left unprotected during their 72 hour window with no compensation going to the other team, it just counts as that teams pick.

Do the Islanders have any desirable assets?

Panarin and Anisimov for Lee, Nelson, pick? Maybe something revolving around Hamonic?

C/W forwards with size both at ~50 pts... isles get a winger for Tavares and center to replace their loss.

Does a trade like this make any sense to either team?
- 93Joe

I've also been thinking about Lee as a potential target for the Hawks this off season. According to rumors, the Isles are looking at Duchene and Drouin. I'm guessing they're looking to add one or the other, not both. But if it is both, I would imagine some of their current forwards would be expendable like Lee, Nelson, Strome, or Bailey.

Chimera as a veteran 4th liner is someone I hope the Hawks pursue (or someone like him). He's good for 15-20 goals, tough to play against, and gives his all every shift. He is 38 but it's not like he's an asset we need for more than two years. If he's too old, then look for someone with a similar makeup at a younger age.

Both Button and Seravalli have the Knights taking Jarnkrok from Nashville. If Stan is wheeling and dealing with McPhee he would be a good target. A 30 point signed for another 5 years at $2 million. He was 49.4% on face offs last season.
- DarthKane

Jarnkrok is a pretty versatile center - he's been tasked with both shutting down top guys (done really well) and placed in an offensive role (decent). He was the main guy keeping Panarin from doing anything of value, for example. He's a good 2/3C, depending on his linemates. Underrated. I would think Vegas would keep such a player unless he can pull in someone better - not necessarily something the Hawks have that they'd be willing to give up.

Jarnkrok is a pretty versatile center - he's been tasked with both shutting down top guys (done really well) and placed in an offensive role (decent). He was the main guy keeping Panarin from doing anything of value, for example. He's a good 2/3C, depending on his linemates. Underrated. I would think Vegas would keep such a player unless he can pull in someone better - not necessarily something the Hawks have that they'd be willing to give up.
- L_B_R

The salary is a pretty solid deal. Useful player for sure.

Things you think about when you get your butt whipped in the first round of the playoffs geez:

Jonathan Toews: do you believe in climate change? Whether you're super pumped that we are putting 'Americans first' or you are absolutely outraged at the idea that we are taking yet another step backwards in dealing with a major global problem, the only way to solve this argument is to try and set your own agenda aside and see how this affects everybody. The only lie we tell ourselves is that we are more special than other life forms on the planet. Well, we're not. Even if we weren't responsible for any major climate catastrophes heading our way, shouldn't we still do our part to preserve what we have left? The same way that we shouldn't wait till our bodies break down completely to start doing the right things to stay healthy, let's not wait till it's too late to do something. I am not saying I am perfectly 'green', but the first step is to keep an open mind and try to learn what you don't already know.

Yeah, i don't think so. Same with keith.

After that, pick your poison, I guess and i don't necessarily agree on Hjalmarsson. it will all come down to contracts, return, and how they feel about the likelihood of "replacement."

And it is possible also they don't make any major moves. Not saying that's a desirable or optimal thing, but certainly quite possible.
- John Jaeckel

I'd argue it more than possible, it's probable. Until Bowman proves he can make a real hockey trade (not a cap dump or reclamation project like Panik), I'm not holding my breath on a blockbuster.

Things you think about when you get your butt whipped in the first round of the playoffs geez:

Jonathan Toews: do you believe in climate change? Whether you're super pumped that we are putting 'Americans first' or you are absolutely outraged at the idea that we are taking yet another step backwards in dealing with a major global problem, the only way to solve this argument is to try and set your own agenda aside and see how this affects everybody. The only lie we tell ourselves is that we are more special than other life forms on the planet. Well, we're not. Even if we weren't responsible for any major climate catastrophes heading our way, shouldn't we still do our part to preserve what we have left? The same way that we shouldn't wait till our bodies break down completely to start doing the right things to stay healthy, let's not wait till it's too late to do something. I am not saying I am perfectly 'green', but the first step is to keep an open mind and try to learn what you don't already know.
- walleyeb1

if there is no ice, there is no hockey!

I'd argue it more than possible, it's probable. Until Bowman proves he can make a real hockey trade (not a cap dump or reclamation project like Panik), I'm not holding my breath on a blockbuster.
- EnzoD

Yeah, this year feels similar to last year. They needed to add some pieces, didn't, and then went with the youth movement. At least that's how it seems, plan A didn't work so they went with plan B.

StanBo always disappoints. I've defended some of his moves in the past but his body of work looks worse with every passing year.

Rocky, McDonough, StanBo, Q, etc. all really would do well to win another cup and solidify a legacy and at least be in the dynasty conversations. With this group of players, this season is always the best opportunity, I hope he goes for it. But as you say, he doesn't have the "go for it" track record during the off season. He went for it in '15 at the TDL and it paid off. He was a trade for a Dman short in 2016, IMHO. We'll see what he does this summer. I hope it is big and daring.

if there is no ice, there is no hockey!
- matt_ahrens

Somehow I don't think the Predators and the Penguins are concerned with the lie we tell ourselves that we are more special than other life forms on the planet at the moment!

I just don't buy all this negativism about the Hawks. It is just reactionism. It is hard to win in the NHL, real hard. It is very competitive and there is parity among the top teams. This crap about saying Chicago is no longer an attractive option to free agents. The bottom line is $. It always has been. If they are coming in on an entry level contract the difference in dollars is negligible. If you are really good you could play in the top 6 forwards or 2nd pairing on defense with some pretty good teammates. If you believe you are a difference maker you can elevate the team.

The Hawks are competitive in the West. Nashville is a really good team. They squeaked out a 1 goal win in game 1. They won game 3 in overtime. We are seeing what world beaters they are now against the Pens. Edmonton is an up and coming team, but let them win something before ordaining them the place to go. Your first contract is generally short. In that time you get to play with Toews, Kane, Hossa, Panarin, Keith, Crow, Seabs, and Hjalmarsson on a very competitive team in the greatest city in the USA under the 2nd winningest coach in hockey history. After that first contract you can reassess your situation.

I just don't buy all this negativism about the Hawks. It is just reactionism. It is hard to win in the NHL, real hard. It is very competitive and there is parity among the top teams. This crap about saying Chicago is no longer an attractive option to free agents. The bottom line is $. It always has been. If they are coming in on an entry level contract the difference in dollars is negligible. If you are really good you could play in the top 6 forwards or 2nd pairing on defense with some pretty good teammates. If you believe you are a difference maker you can elevate the team.

The Hawks are competitive in the West. Nashville is a really good team. They squeaked out a 1 goal win in game 1. They won game 3 in overtime. We are seeing what world beaters they are now against the Pens. Edmonton is an up and coming team, but let them win something before ordaining them the place to go. Your first contract is generally short. In that time you get to play with Toews, Kane, Hossa, Panarin, Keith, Crow, Seabs, and Hjalmarsson on a very competitive team in the greatest city in the USA under the 2nd winningest coach in hockey history. After that first contract you can reassess your situation.
- -Doh-

Bravo!

I was basically sickened more by the negativity and opinions here after the sweep, so I stayed away.
Anyone who thinks any part of the core is slower, not as good, well maybe the problem is you underated parity, one goal games and the stuff that happens when the real dance starts...after the first Cup, we saw stuff happened and found
scapegoats too.
Pittsburgh got fortunate the last two Finals because I felt both opponents by the final were not good enough to beat them, but I felt there were easily others in the West who would,
But it doesn't work like that...that is why I love the game. Ottawa can almost go to the Cup, and Chicago Blackhawks can be embarrassed in four.
Blame?
No.
Maybe on the refs who probably helped Johansen get clubbed to the IR, and the invisible whistles and goalie interference determine some of the outcomes.

But there are lots of good teams players and backstops.

Reality sux sometimes.

And i would never try and take away the three Cups, but wasn't it also about who the hawks faced in various series, lucky breaks (the Hedman Bishop collision goal) and health of team & opponents and calls?
I think there was some of that in the wins as well as the losses to the Cups.

I still love the game and won't get bogged down by making any individuals in management or on the ice the focus of my disappointment.

So just like a big hit on my old body, I suck it up and keep trying to win.

Both Button and Seravalli have the Knights taking Jarnkrok from Nashville. If Stan is wheeling and dealing with McPhee he would be a good target. A 30 point signed for another 5 years at $2 million. He was 49.4% on face offs last season.
- DarthKane

In some ways I want to agree, but I don't think he is or will be strong on the puck. He loses it in traffic, contact, and battle areas, and maybe one of the true stat guys out there can look it up. Maybe in the last year he has really improved and my limited views the hawk games were only exceptions, not the rule. (I simply didn't have time to watch pro games the Hawks weren't in or I was attending.)

I agree that if you do trade yet another centre (besides Kruger) he might be a ecomonical filler piece but not one i see as top six ever.

But it also begs the question: at that rate he and Kruger give Las Vegas two fills around some aging big Cap veteran center who can be their first line guy, although he really isn't...

If Andrew Copp is left unprotected by the Jets, I want him, and Raanta in the return for Kruger and TvR and some Rockford.

if I thought the hawks were actually shaking up the core, Alex Killorn at a litte over 4 million a year is left unprotected, or Boone Jenner with one year left on a less than 3 million deal, well, I want them for the wings, especially Killorn, he is better than most of our wing candidates and got some Saad in him.

Maybe you go to Tampa and tell them to protect Killorn and we float you a defender afterward?