I could see it, but the Anisimov-Rask part still doesn't seem necessary.
- BINGO!

You will give up Rask. *waves hand while performing Jedi mind trick*

I could see it, but the Anisimov-Rask part still doesn't seem necessary.
- BINGO!

So Panarin and Faulk are EQUALS?

Yikes!


I am out of here.

I knew there was a reason I stayed away...no reaon to be bothered about with imaginary tales.

I am fairly certain DeBrincat WAS offered as aprt of a package to Colorado when the Avs were talk shopping their two highly paid early selected Landeskog and Duchene...but that deal died.
- wiz1901

Don't fall off your high horse on the way out! It's a hockey blog for us fans. I have no problem with armchair GM trade proposals during the summer...not sure why it bothers you so much...

I am sorry - IF Faulk was really the guy why would his name be out there for most of the season. His not very good down low, and I simply don't see him as an heir apaprnt to any of the big three when the time comes they are parted with...those three aging defenders are all far BETTER players than he is, period.

And he is a right hander who can play the off side if I am not mistaken...

Granted Faulk scored a lot of goals with his point shot, but where they trailer on the rush goals? He's smaller than all the big three save for Keith, and he isn't that great in his end. He would hav emade the difference against the Predators? He and the slow- footed Rask?

Landing and Barrie would have made a bigger dent against Nashville...

I have heard all the talk about how Seabrook Keith and Hammer are slow and done, but that's horsefeathers...hwere they banged up? I give you that.
- wiz1901

I'm not looking at a replacement for the big three, but a compliment to them. Faulk adds a dynamic we don't have. He's more like a Leddy type d-man. He's great at possession and driving offensive play.

I don't subscribe to any of Keith, Seabs, or Hammer being done, but a top 4 of:

2-7
4- Faulk

That is something that carries you a lot farther than what we had. I'd be okay with Barrie too, but he's worse i his own end than Faulk is (though that could be due to the Avs being junk in general last year).

So Panarin and Faulk are EQUALS?
- wiz1901

Not equals on their own, but Faulk and 1.2M AAV cap savings and being a righty makes the deal more equal. Especially since we could use a top 4 D more than we could use Panarin.

I could see it, but the Anisimov-Rask part still doesn't seem necessary.
- BINGO!

I agree.

....if you legitimately think Brent Seabrook is a better player than Justin Faulk right now, I have no words for you.

That's incomprehensible.
- BINGO!

...and he is comparable to Seabrook in the defenseive zone? Ha!

Over the past 3 seasons, only 5 defensemen have scored more goals than Justin Faulk:

Burns, OEL, Karlsson, Weber and Byfuglien. That's it.

- BINGO!

You stepped in it NOW!
We all know Buff can't play defense, and Burns played so suspect that he was a part of the Sharks losing....

I didn't realize after all these years that GOALS determined a defenseman's game.

WOW! he's SO good...that the Hurri anes don't see him as an answer to making the playoffs

So Panarin and Faulk are EQUALS?
- wiz1901

Well, they're the same age, and one's a defenseman... Would it not be fair to say that there's a pretty good chance Panarin's numbers have been inflated by playing with one of the most talented NHL players of the last decade?

Think there's a pretty big risk that Panarin's numbers drop significantly if he's on the Canes, whereas Faulk would likely thrive in Chicago with a D partner like Keith.

Plus, Faulk is cheaper.

I don't subscribe to any of Keith, Seabs, or Hammer being done, but a top 4 of:

2-7
4- Faulk


- JRoenick97

so both Hammer and Faulk will play "euro-style defense" PLAYING the off-sides...the Lhd Hammer on the right and rhd Faulk on the left....
that should keep the puck in the offensive zone,cough.

btw I only threw Barries name in there, because he is very suspect in his end too, but he at least has the wheels to jump in...my point was if you trade Panarin, you add speed and snarl, not slow and point shot...

...and he is comparable to Seabrook in the defenseive zone? Ha!





You stepped in it NOW!
We all know Buff can't play defense, and Burns played so suspect that he was a part of the Sharks losing....

I didn't realize after all these years that GOALS determined a defenseman's game.

WOW! he's SO good...that the Hurri anes don't see him as an answer to making the playoffs
- wiz1901

Please give me a single example to back up your position. At this point all you've provided is outrage and idiocy.

so both Hammer and Faulk will play "euro-style defense" PLAYING the off-sides...the Lhd Hammer on the right and rhd Faulk on the left....
that should keep the puck in the offensive zone,cough.
- wiz1901

He has Hammer and Faulk on their natural sides there....?

Please give me a single example to back up your position. At this point all you've provided is outrage and idiocy.
- BINGO!

my eyeballs...not Marty Feldman's...

but how about I give you one:

OVER THE LAST FOUR SEASONS. Faulk is a MINUS 68

my eyeballs...not Marty Feldman's...
- wiz1901

You should probably get those checked.

Honestly I don't see the Hurricanes trading Faulk. I'm sure Hanifin is the odd-man out if they're trading a Defenseman at this point, but I don't think Chicago would be as interested in him right now and it's kind of fun to talk about.

my eyeballs...not Marty Feldman's...

but how about I give you one:

OVER THE LAST FOUR SEASONS. Faulk is a MINUS 68
- wiz1901

Playing top-pairing minutes on a team that's had bottom 5 NHL goaltending for all of those years, and is a -100 over those seasons, yeah.

EDIT:

Cam Ward has a .906 save percentage over the past 4 years combined. You don't think that might have something to do with that number?

He has Hammer and Faulk on their natural sides there....?
- BINGO!

Hammer plays the right side because he is best there...where is Faulk comfortable except on the ice when the other team score?
the right side?

so Seabrook is the the #3 right side defenser for the hawks, so this trade scenario just drifted to being a bad fit in another way besides losing the best player, a true scorer for a 3rd line centre and Faulk.

If he is that great Carolina should rush to resign him for more than Seabrook makes!

Hammer plays the right side because he is best there...where is Faulk comfortable except on the ice when the other team score?
the right side?

so Seabrook is the the #3 right side defenser for the hawks, so this trade scenario just drifted to being a bad fit in another way besides losing the best player, a true scorer for a 3rd line centre and Faulk.

If he is that great Carolina should rush to resign him for more than Seabrook makes!
- wiz1901

Well, no, because Seabrook's contract is atrocious, and doing so would be a handicap when we have other players coming up to sign as well.

Hammer plays the right side because he is best there...where is Faulk comfortable except on the ice when the other team score?
the right side?

so Seabrook is the the #3 right side defenser for the hawks, so this trade scenario just drifted to being a bad fit in another way besides losing the best player, a true scorer for a 3rd line centre and Faulk.

If he is that great Carolina should rush to resign him for more than Seabrook makes!
- wiz1901

I am sure you have forgotten more about hockey talent evaluation than I will ever know, but what I think that we are all struggling with is how to trade for value when the comparisons are unclear and the potential outcomes so uncertain. Casual fans are uncertain about how to establish equal value/return for players, so we kind of guess. Statistics, need, salary cap considerations, and leadership qualities only get you so far.

For example, if you trade Panarin for a 30 goal/70-80 point left wing, the value/return equation is more certain than if you trade Panarin for a defenseman who is not going to put up those kinds of numbers, but has to fit in with our (aging but effective) defensive corps and Coach Q's system.

I think that is where most of us are at when we try to talk about these mock deals.

my eyeballs...not Marty Feldman's...

but how about I give you one:

OVER THE LAST FOUR SEASONS. Faulk is a MINUS 68
- wiz1901

You should know better than anyone that plus minus is highly dependent on the team around you.

You should know better than anyone that plus minus is highly dependent on the team around you.
- JRoenick97

Which is why I don't understand individual corsi / fenwick stats: these are as dependent on the team around you as is the plus / minus stat.

ESPECIALLY for a defenseman.

I am sure you have forgotten more about hockey talent evaluation than I will ever know, but what I think that we are all struggling with is how to trade for value when the comparisons are unclear and the potential outcomes so uncertain. Casual fans are uncertain about how to establish equal value/return for players, so we kind of guess. Statistics, need, salary cap considerations, and leadership qualities only get you so far.

For example, if you trade Panarin for a 30 goal/70-80 point left wing, the value/return equation is more certain than if you trade Panarin for a defenseman who is not going to put up those kinds of numbers, but has to fit in with our (aging but effective) defensive corps and Coach Q's system.

I think that is where most of us are at when we try to talk about these mock deals.
- hpk90

Great post. Trades are rarely apples for apples so determining value for value is tough for the fans (whether casual or diehard) as much as it for the people who get paid to actually make these decisions like Bowman and his staff.

Great post. Trades are rarely apples for apples so determining value for value is tough for the fans (whether casual or diehard) as much as it for the people who get paid to actually make these decisions like Bowman and his staff.
- AEL_Fox

Thanks. I cannot imagine the stress of being held accountable for decisions like the ones Bowman and his staff make when it comes to player evaluation.

Hammer plays the right side because he is best there...where is Faulk comfortable except on the ice when the other team score?
the right side?

so Seabrook is the the #3 right side defenser for the hawks, so this trade scenario just drifted to being a bad fit in another way besides losing the best player, a true scorer for a 3rd line centre and Faulk.

If he is that great Carolina should rush to resign him for more than Seabrook makes!
- wiz1901

You keep bringing in Rask when that was not my proposal at all. And my pairings had Seabs on the top pair with Keith. hammer moved to the left side because backhand zone exits are terrible, and Faulk on the right for the same reason. I haven't noticed a ton of which side Faulk plays on mostly, but he has played both sides in many cases. Looks like he lines up on the left for PP shot lanes. Hammer also played left his entire career until Oduya came to the Hawks.

Which is why I don't understand individual corsi / fenwick stats: these are as dependent on the team around you as is the plus / minus stat.

ESPECIALLY for a defenseman.
- StLBravesFan

Corsi and Fenwick allow you to look at how the team change with him on the ice or off the ice, so you can see his effects on the team. Looking simply at those stats in a vacuum doesn't show much.

You keep bringing in Rask when that was not my proposal at all. And my pairings had Seabs on the top pair with Keith. hammer moved to the left side because backhand zone exits are terrible, and Faulk on the right for the same reason. I haven't noticed a ton of which side Faulk plays on mostly, but he has played both sides in many cases. Looks like he lines up on the left for PP shot lanes.
- JRoenick97

Yep.

Faulk typically plays the right side, but moved to the left on the PP last season when the Canes started using TT or Rask for a 4 forward set-up