Yes. Kane makes players better. Toews needs better players to compliment his game.

It's not coincidence he wins Selkes - when the best defensive winger in the game/on the team was his RW (Hossa)
- PatShart

Yeah, I like Toews, his game is basically perfect, but he's not the elite point producing C that many want him to be.

Yeah, I like Toews, his game is basically perfect, but he's not the elite point producing C that many want him to be.
- BINGO!

Sid went through a down period, lets hope the same rebound holds true for Toews as no one will trade for him right now.

If the league wanted to act on a preference, they would have asked NBC what it wanted - and we would have had two Pittsburgh-Chicago finals in a row.

Or better - Chicago-NY or Chicago-Montreal.

The Blackhawks are the only team in the West with any kind of National (US) following - the only team that help NBC's ratings nationally.

Does anyone (besides, say, PE) really think that Bettman conspired to have Chicago out in round one 4 times in the last 7 years?
- StLBravesFan

I do! I do! Bettman has been in cahoots with a certain foreign government for the past several years in his attempts to insure an early exit for the Hawks, each and every year.

you hit the mark, the last two years the entertainment level has been less than stellar. the Hawks use to win the 1 goal games, not sure if the Hawks are slipping or other teams getting better. But one major observation, some of the more successful teams really get their defensemen involved in the offense and not just point shots. Usually the Hawks defense only get involved late in the game when the Hawks are down.

Some of the best watching was the 2008-9 and 9-10 team and actually the 2014-5 team was not bad either. the 2014-5 team, every game was a nail biter, but the Hawks won the one goal games.
- Topshelf2010

Typically they would disrupt plays in the neutral zone and quickly flip the ice. They have changed from that and have been retreating more and letting the other team comfortably enter the zone. The Hawks forwards then collapse to the circles and let the other team rip free point shots and hope Crow or Darling could save them. Kind of dumb.

Anyway, this is the Jonathan Toews it would be nice to see again. Not the dig in the corner cycle, stuff, shot from the right half boards predictable garbage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obp8G2JFgkM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHdOfrEQ2Cg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU26nvr10vY

Speed and purpose through the neutral zone and making guys look stupid. That is fun to watch. Watching guys just grind in a corner and wait for the puck to squirt out then jam it into the pads just to get a face off is pretty bleh.

I do understand that some of the problem lies within the NHL and the lack of enforcement of basic holding and interference rules at the blue line that really do kill the game. However no amount of clutching or grabbing can stop that type of explosion on a consistent basis and would probably help to get defenders to retreat a bit and help establish more zone entries.

And you know, for the Q-defenders, that cycle is quickly coming to a close for him. Could NOT help think, watching Trevor Daley in black n' gold last night, that Q's stubbornness is going to be his undoing.

How could anyone not think that Mike Sullivan was able to take players given to him and turn those into gold?

Whereas Q took that same player and by his actions in how he (mis)used Daley (or refused to use him) caused Stan to send off what might have made the Sharp trade a little less a fleecing. Never did there seem a time when it was apparent Q was going to use the talents he had available and concoct a scheme/system that worked to the team's advantage. It's always Q's way or the highway.

I really hope Sullivan is able to guide the Pens to back-to-back CUPS. Maybe now when the question comes up of who would you rather have behind the Chicago bench I can finally have an answer. Given Pitt's injuries, what Sullivan has accomplished thus-far is pretty damn top-of-list in my mind.
- savvyone-1

Yeah...Daley looked great on that third NASH goal

The Hawks had to completely dismantle, rebuild - and did successfully 2x after theirfirst cup in an extremely short time. (some say could have been 3 if the mental giant didn't have the puck go off him as he screened his own goalie vs LA in game 7 of the WCF)

How long was it between PITT cups? Won in '09 and it took 6-7 years to get back. It's been 2 for the Hawks. They played way more rookies this year (which people cry wanting...but cry at the results/playoffs). While having the best record in the conference wins you nothing, it gave some rookies a chance to show what they have (or don't have).

Let's see how this develops...i think they earned that time

Sid went through a down period, lets hope the same rebound holds true for Toews as no one will trade for him right now.
- riozzo

That's the question people should be asking, can Toews bounce back and have seasons like 10/11, 12/13, 13/14 and 14/15? He's not going to be a 90 point player, that's never really been his game. Maybe if Stan finds a few super elite defensive forwards on the cheap but until then Toews is too valuable with his two-way game.

That's the question people should be asking, can Toews bounce back and have seasons like 10/11, 12/13, 13/14 and 14/15? He's not going to be a 90 point player, that's never really been his game. Maybe if Stan finds a few super elite defensive forwards on the cheap but until then Toews is too valuable with his two-way game.
- DarthKane

Yeah, if you trade him, you're losing that trade.

At 29 I don't know if he'll have a resurgence, but he should be a 55-60 point, two-way C for the next 5 years at minimum.

Sid went through a down period, lets hope the same rebound holds true for Toews as no one will trade for him right now.
- riozzo

Toews can only wish to have one of Sid's "down periods"

Typically they would disrupt plays in the neutral zone and quickly flip the ice. They have changed from that and have been retreating more and letting the other team comfortably enter the zone. The Hawks forwards then collapse to the circles and let the other team rip free point shots and hope Crow or Darling could save them. Kind of dumb.

Anyway, this is the Jonathan Toews it would be nice to see again. Not the dig in the corner cycle, stuff, shot from the right half boards predictable garbage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obp8G2JFgkM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHdOfrEQ2Cg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU26nvr10vY

Speed and purpose through the neutral zone and making guys look stupid. That is fun to watch. Watching guys just grind in a corner and wait for the puck to squirt out then jam it into the pads just to get a face off is pretty bleh.

I do understand that some of the problem lies within the NHL and the lack of enforcement of basic holding and interference rules at the blue line that really do kill the game. However no amount of clutching or grabbing can stop that type of explosion on a consistent basis and would probably help to get defenders to retreat a bit and help establish more zone entries.
- fattybeef

.

What is interesting in those clips - no forward or D for that matter were key from the redline in - disproving his need to ALWAYS have great PF next to him. Should have also had the clip of 19 scoring form his stomach. During the cycle game yes, 1 on 1 - he did not need it.

I would take nothing for granted right now, beyond Kane, Toews, keith and maybe a couple of others being around to start the season.

Sure, bet the odds and it's basically the same team with a couple more rookies plugged in.

But, for all the reasons just discussed, there is "significant" pressure in the front office to make some bigger moves this summer and change the roster/cap/overreliance on rookies paradigm of the last couple of seasons.

But there are "obvious" moves that everyone kind of assumes will happen that might not, like essentially sweetening Kruger with some other asset to get someone to take him. And that's "the only thing the Hawks can do."

Just a move like that to get cap compliant does nothing to improve this team. And as a whole, the offseason moves would invest a LOT of hope in Panik going to some other level, Kempny improving a lot, or a kid or two with zero pro experience coming in and being difference makers.

Might end up being the only thing they can do. But they are exploring other things and I am told doing so with the intent of pulling the trigger on something bigger and more transformative.

Because if WE can see here that they need to do something outside the boz, then the money people in the FO do as well.
- John Jaeckel

What does Brian Bosworth have to do with anything?

All kidding aside, there are some areas the Hawks can realistically move salary from and pick up some other assets while reducing long term cap commitments. Take a look at the Pens and the Preds, and you can see 2 clubs with different approaches to the game, both being successful.

The Pens have a below average D corp, especially with Letang out. They have a strong forward group that can generate offense and/or take advantage of mistakes and score (see last nights game). Because their D is weak, they require them to simplify their game to basically "get it out of the zone". They do very little of the D-to-D or re-cycle or attempt to make long breakout passes. Instead, they try and win races to pucks, and when they do, they simply chip it out and let the offense chase it down and create. It is also obviously necessary to have either MAF or Murray being strong in the net to clean up the D's mess.

The Preds on the other hand have a Strong D, that also contribute greatly to whatever Offense is generated. Their game is generated from the Defense, and while their offense is opportunistic, they do not alone generate a lot chances outside of Forsberg & Johansen. To an extent their D props up whomever is in Net. Rinne last night reverted to his norm of overhyped. He has looked good this postseason, more as a result of those in front of him except for a few games.

So the Hawks can pick a path. They can move out a Seabrook, with the understanding that it will most likely weaken the D, but with a change in the style of defensive play they can fill the hole. Or they can try and strengthen the D and try and win the low scoring affairs. Either way dictates a change in the style of play.

I haven't been here for awhile, due to
a) all the whining, and
b) simply busy trying to put some favorable comments up for the 2017 prospects pool that has oh so many warts, on DraftSite

There are many that would look at Alex DeBrincat as a guy who isn't going to get taller, or faster, and is wjhat he is, a guy who at the lower level has had a uncanny knack for being in the right place and display elite scoring prowess, and see him as Toews wing NOW.

Graham Knott needed to work on his footspped and agility when they selected him, and he truly is a lot farther down the developmental road than then.

It's tough to say what will happened until you see them in camp, so i wouldn't discourage thoughts that the kid DeBrincat plays a scoring role immediately and then if it doesn't work, goes back to Erie...

Toews can only wish to have one of Sid's "down periods"
- PatShart

Its not a compare contrast statement, its to reflect how Sid went through some down times and rebounded to his game. I am saying I hope Toews rebounds to his game, the game that was worth 10.5M a year.

Toews can only wish to have one of Sid's "down periods"
- PatShart

Sid's three least productive seasons have been the last 3, where he still averaged better than a point per game.

I haven't been here for awhile, due to
a) all the whining, and
b) simply busy trying to put some favorable comments up for the 2017 prospects pool that has oh so many warts, on DraftSite

There are many that would look at Alex DeBrincat as a guy who isn't going to get taller, or faster, and is wjhat he is, a guy who at the lower level has had a uncanny knack for being in the right place and display elite scoring prowess, and see him as Toews wing NOW.

Graham Knott needed to work on his footspped and agility when they selected him, and he truly is a lot farther down the developmental road than then.

It's tough to say what will happened until you see them in camp, so i wouldn't discourage thoughts that the kid DeBrincat plays a scoring role immediately and then if it doesn't work, goes back to Erie...
- wiz1901

Arvidsson even had a rough rookie year. There needs to be a certain degree of patience.

Typically they would disrupt plays in the neutral zone and quickly flip the ice. They have changed from that and have been retreating more and letting the other team comfortably enter the zone. The Hawks forwards then collapse to the circles and let the other team rip free point shots and hope Crow or Darling could save them. Kind of dumb.

Anyway, this is the Jonathan Toews it would be nice to see again. Not the dig in the corner cycle, stuff, shot from the right half boards predictable garbage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obp8G2JFgkM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHdOfrEQ2Cg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU26nvr10vY

Speed and purpose through the neutral zone and making guys look stupid. That is fun to watch. Watching guys just grind in a corner and wait for the puck to squirt out then jam it into the pads just to get a face off is pretty bleh.

I do understand that some of the problem lies within the NHL and the lack of enforcement of basic holding and interference rules at the blue line that really do kill the game. However no amount of clutching or grabbing can stop that type of explosion on a consistent basis and would probably help to get defenders to retreat a bit and help establish more zone entries.
- fattybeef

Exactly why I think it's crazy to blow up Kane's line to try to fix Toews line.

Its not a compare contrast statement, its to reflect how Sid went through some down times and rebounded to his game. I am saying I hope Toews rebounds to his game, the game that was worth 10.5M a year.
- riozzo

I don't think he was ever worth that, though.

His best year, production-wise, was 5 years ago in the lockout shortened season.

The same year JIRI TLUSTY was a top 5 NHL Scorer.

What does Brian Bosworth have to do with anything?

All kidding aside, there are some areas the Hawks can realistically move salary from and pick up some other assets while reducing long term cap commitments. Take a look at the Pens and the Preds, and you can see 2 clubs with different approaches to the game, both being successful.

The Pens have a below average D corp, especially with Letang out. They have a strong forward group that can generate offense and/or take advantage of mistakes and score (see last nights game). Because their D is weak, they require them to simplify their game to basically "get it out of the zone". They do very little of the D-to-D or re-cycle or attempt to make long breakout passes. Instead, they try and win races to pucks, and when they do, they simply chip it out and let the offense chase it down and create. It is also obviously necessary to have either MAF or Murray being strong in the net to clean up the D's mess.

The Preds on the other hand have a Strong D, that also contribute greatly to whatever Offense is generated. Their game is generated from the Defense, and while their offense is opportunistic, they do not alone generate a lot chances outside of Forsberg & Johansen. To an extent their D props up whomever is in Net. Rinne last night reverted to his norm of overhyped. He has looked good this postseason, more as a result of those in front of him except for a few games.

So the Hawks can pick a path. They can move out a Seabrook, with the understanding that it will most likely weaken the D, but with a change in the style of defensive play they can fill the hole. Or they can try and strengthen the D and try and win the low scoring affairs. Either way dictates a change in the style of play.
- TheTrob

So are you saying 7 out means GA goes up, but must be accompanied by a larger increase in GF? I would be Ok with that if it translates in to Playoff wins. You do know if this it true, Cro will get lambasted on this board by some of the haters even thought its a club directional change.

What does Brian Bosworth have to do with anything?

All kidding aside, there are some areas the Hawks can realistically move salary from and pick up some other assets while reducing long term cap commitments. Take a look at the Pens and the Preds, and you can see 2 clubs with different approaches to the game, both being successful.

The Pens have a below average D corp, especially with Letang out. They have a strong forward group that can generate offense and/or take advantage of mistakes and score (see last nights game). Because their D is weak, they require them to simplify their game to basically "get it out of the zone". They do very little of the D-to-D or re-cycle or attempt to make long breakout passes. Instead, they try and win races to pucks, and when they do, they simply chip it out and let the offense chase it down and create. It is also obviously necessary to have either MAF or Murray being strong in the net to clean up the D's mess.

The Preds on the other hand have a Strong D, that also contribute greatly to whatever Offense is generated. Their game is generated from the Defense, and while their offense is opportunistic, they do not alone generate a lot chances outside of Forsberg & Johansen. To an extent their D props up whomever is in Net. Rinne last night reverted to his norm of overhyped. He has looked good this postseason, more as a result of those in front of him except for a few games.

So the Hawks can pick a path. They can move out a Seabrook, with the understanding that it will most likely weaken the D, but with a change in the style of defensive play they can fill the hole. Or they can try and strengthen the D and try and win the low scoring affairs. Either way dictates a change in the style of play.
- TheTrob

Moving out a Seabrook would be a lot harder than you make it sound. Gonna be hard to find somebody to take that on.

Never happen. Q saw how Savard got dealt. We all saw Haviland get launched after he had a good run when Q was hospitalized during that season and that was all Q.
I know you believe the story that it was Bowman Sr. who got Savard offed because of his practices. But Sr had a little help with motivation on that from some marketing guy who hockey guy Savard wouldn't take lineup direction from. You and I could have been coach and asst. coach in 2010 and run the table with that team.
- 6628

Ha true.....

Same marketing guy Talon wouldn't abide to and led to Dale enjoying all the golf courses down in S Fla.

But I'm sure said guy leaning heavily on Bowman Sr, there was no promise of Stan getting GM role......ever............

So are you saying 7 out means GA goes up, but must be accompanied by a larger increase in GF? I would be Ok with that if it translates in to Playoff wins. You do know if this it true, Cro will get lambasted on this board by some of the haters even thought its a club directional change.
- riozzo

I'm saying its possible.

What I have been saying more so all along is that what the Hawks need most of all is a change of philosophy or system. The league has adapted to Q's system and now it is time for him to change or move along.

I haven't been here for awhile, due to
a) all the whining, and
b) simply busy trying to put some favorable comments up for the 2017 prospects pool that has oh so many warts, on DraftSite
- wiz1901

Apologies if I've missed it, but who would you like to see or who do you think might be there at 26 for the Hawks to draft? I always appreciate the insight.

Yeah, if you trade him, you're losing that trade.

At 29 I don't know if he'll have a resurgence, but he should be a 55-60 point, two-way C for the next 5 years at minimum.
- BINGO!

I'll take that.

Toews is a guy who can excel in every aspect of the game. Whether or not Crosby is better it totally irrelevant. Toews is the guy the Hawks will do battle with and that will not change. I feel confident with Toews on the ice in the last minute of a game, whether it's protecting a 1 goal lead or pressing for the equalizer.

Is Toews worth $10.5 million? No, probably not but that was the cost to keep him. There's not point moaning and groaning about, we can't change the fact that Toews' cap hit is $10.5 million.

Sid went through a down period, lets hope the same rebound holds true for Toews as no one will trade for him right now.
- riozzo

I'm just glad that Sidney Crosby is the greatest hockey player in the history of the NHL......thank god I don't live in Canadian to hear that TSN love fest.

Crosby has 159 pts in 143 playoff games with 56 goals and 103 assists in his career.
He has scored 1 OT winner, and led league in goals 08/09 and assists/points in 07/08

Yet everyone up north wants to anoint him as a top 5 ALL TIME player? Ahh.....NO

Malkin has 154 points in 144 playoff games, with 56 goals and 98 assists in his career.
He has scored 1 OT winner and led league in assists/points in 08/09 and assists/points THIS playoff year.

Kane has 123 points in 127 playoff games, with 50 goals and 73 assists.
He has scored 5 OT winners and led league in pts in 14/15

So in another 16-17 playoff games could Kane pump in another 6 goals? probably....but this again just shows you how badly the Canadian media is hell bent on getting Crosby the Conn Smythe right now......Malkins to lose or it should be.

Crosby is great player, but lets curb the all time top 5 talk.......Orr, Gretzky, Messier, Jagr, Lemiuex, Roy, Howe, just to get started.............

I'm just glad that Sidney Crosby is the greatest hockey player in the history of the NHL......thank god I don't live in Canadian to hear that TSN love fest.

Crosby has 159 pts in 143 playoff games with 56 goals and 103 assists in his career.
He has scored 1 OT winner, and led league in goals 08/09 and assists/points in 07/08

Yet everyone up north wants to anoint him as a top 5 ALL TIME player? Ahh.....NO

Malkin has 154 points in 144 playoff games, with 56 goals and 98 assists in his career.
He has scored 1 OT winner and led league in assists/points in 08/09 and assists/points THIS playoff year.

Kane has 123 points in 127 playoff games, with 50 goals and 73 assists.
He has scored 5 OT winners and led league in pts in 14/15

So in another 16-17 playoff games could Kane pump in another 6 goals? probably....but this again just shows you how badly the Canadian media is hell bent on getting Crosby the Conn Smythe right now......Malkins to lose or it should be.

Crosby is great player, but lets curb the all time top 5 talk.......Orr, Gretzky, Messier, Jagr, Lemiuex, Roy, Howe, just to get started.............
- SteveRain

I was not down that path, but do agree, also, Phil Espo, several Habs, etc.

Sid is 14th on this list... https://www.usatoday.com/...ers-nhl-history/97037008/

I'm just glad that Sidney Crosby is the greatest hockey player in the history of the NHL......thank god I don't live in Canadian to hear that TSN love fest.

Crosby has 159 pts in 143 playoff games with 56 goals and 103 assists in his career.
He has scored 1 OT winner, and led league in goals 08/09 and assists/points in 07/08

Yet everyone up north wants to anoint him as a top 5 ALL TIME player? Ahh.....NO

Malkin has 154 points in 144 playoff games, with 56 goals and 98 assists in his career.
He has scored 1 OT winner and led league in assists/points in 08/09 and assists/points THIS playoff year.

Kane has 123 points in 127 playoff games, with 50 goals and 73 assists.
He has scored 5 OT winners and led league in pts in 14/15

So in another 16-17 playoff games could Kane pump in another 6 goals? probably....but this again just shows you how badly the Canadian media is hell bent on getting Crosby the Conn Smythe right now......Malkins to lose or it should be.

Crosby is great player, but lets curb the all time top 5 talk.......Orr, Gretzky, Messier, Jagr, Lemiuex, Roy, Howe, just to get started.............
- SteveRain

Because the playoffs are not really the best way to measure individual success.

In Points per games played, Sidney Crosby is 6th all-time, and has played more games than 2 of the guys ahead of him.