Pens have the 2nd lowest raw 5v5 shot attempts per 60 during the playoffs. Not sure that exactly screams "pace".
- Feds91Stammer

Plus, you're saying that because they take better more calculated shots and have better scoring chances and don't throw the puck on net in "we hope to lucky here" desperate fashion that says the opposite of pace?

The Preds haven't faced an elite team since the Hawks in the playoffs. This series they do not have Fiala Fisher or Johannsen Pens in 6
- dirt4949

Hawks were far from elite this year.

Plus, you're saying that because they take better more calculated shots and have better scoring chances and don't throw the puck on net in "we hope to lucky here" desperate fashion that says the opposite of pace?
- NJPensfan

Haha that is quite the stretch there. Good job.

Pens have the 2nd lowest raw 5v5 shot attempts per 60 during the playoffs. Not sure that exactly screams "pace".
- Feds91Stammer

Maybe because the Pens dont throw worthless shots at the net on every play and instead try to get into better scoring positions?
I dont know raw 5 v 5, does it differentiate between a wrister from the blue line that has no chance of going in and a shot from the slot off a Crosby pass?

Maybe because the Pens dont throw worthless shots at the net on every play and instead try to get into better scoring positions?
I dont know raw 5 v 5, does it differentiate between a wrister from the blue line that has no chance of going in and a shot from the slot off a Crosby pass?
- stackthepads

All I'm saying was that pace you referenced would result in more shot attempts... This isn't the same Pens team as last year.

Haha that is quite the stretch there. Good job.
- Feds91Stammer

NJPens got in before me. But my question and his stands as an honest question. Does the metric you describe take all shots as equal?

James Tanner, making himself relevant by being irrelevant. The little child that screams and makes a scene soon learns people will give their attention till they see it is just a whiney child looking for attention....but the child never learns another way to get peoples attention, so they just continue to be that same child in an adult body screaming for attention.

What some call "luck" others call opportunities created by determination....something that someone who writes for the Capitals has a hard time grasping the thought of determination.

All I'm saying was that pace you referenced would result in more shot attempts... This isn't the same Pens team as last year.
- Feds91Stammer

No it wouldnt automatically result in more shots. It results in the opponent having to skate/think at a pace that is much quicker in tempo than say the Ducks.

James Tanner, making himself relevant by being irrelevant. The little child that screams and makes a scene soon learns people will give their attention till they see it is just a whiney child looking for attention....but the child never learns another way to get peoples attention, so they just continue to be that same child in an adult body screaming for attention.

What some call "luck" others call opportunities created by determination....something that someone who writes for the Capitals has a hard time grasping the thought of determination.
- Darklight11

Tanner prays to the church of analytics, hes no different than any other zealot. I dont understand why people argue with the close minded.

No it wouldnt automatically result in more shots. It results in the opponent having to skate/think at a pace that is much quicker in tempo than say the Ducks.
- stackthepads

LMAO the Ducks were one of the top teams in terms of shot attempts and scoring chances per 60 because of the pace they play at...

LMAO the Ducks were one of the top teams in terms of shot attempts and scoring chances per 60 because of the pace they play at...
- Feds91Stammer

LMAO is how you reply when you arent really sure your argument hold water.

You keep throwing out chances per 60, but I and NJPens had a question regarding the validity of that metric that you havent addressed.

LMAO the Ducks were one of the top teams in terms of shot attempts and scoring chances per 60 because of the pace they play at...
- Feds91Stammer

The only time I think of pace is when I'm dipping my nachos in it.

Taking nothing away from how good they have played at certain times, nor the accomplishments of the Crosby or Malkin, but let's be realitstic: Letang is out for the season , their D is terrible, their starting goalie got hurt, their backup played like a superstar against the best team in the league, and they won a seven game series against the Caps where they were destroyed in six of seven games.

It's not an insult to the Penguins, its just what has actually transpired.
- james_tanner1

Cant you get over your disappointment for losing to the Penguins? Very much like last year, the D has outplayed what anyone would expect from it. On paper, it doesnt look like a great defense but every series, they hold their own, defending and moving the puck enough to win. IF Pens D corps was the worst in the playoffs, how did they get this far? Maybe its time people started giving the defense and front office the credit they deserve. The team isn't all Malkin and Crosby. They didnt advance just by having Fleury and now Murray stand on their heads. Keep whining and crying about the loss, James. Keep ripping and downplaying the Penguins. We will just keep winning....

LMAO is how you reply when you arent really sure your argument hold water.

You keep throwing out chances per 60, but I and NJPens had a question regarding the validity of that metric that you havent addressed.
- stackthepads

The validity of shot attempts? You can't be serious...

Cant you get over your disappointment for losing to the Penguins? Very much like last year, the D has outplayed what anyone would expect from it. On paper, it doesnt look like a great defense but every series, they hold their own, defending and moving the puck enough to win. IF Pens D corps was the worst in the playoffs, how did they get this far? Maybe its time people started giving the defense and front office the credit they deserve. The team isn't all Malkin and Crosby. They didnt advance just by having Fleury and now Murray stand on their heads. Keep whining and crying about the loss, James. Keep ripping and downplaying the Penguins. We will just keep winning....
- Amanion

Psst. Tanner is a Leafs fan.

Psst. Tanner is a Leafs fan.
- Feds91Stammer

I literally do not care if the Capitals are good or bad or if they lose. In fact, had I not be tasked to cover the team, I most likely would have cheered for the underdogs.

Anyways, I am being about as objective as it is possible to be here, the Capitals were the better team and they lost. I haven't seen a single serious person dispute this. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to recognize their team got a bit lucky - you still get to keep playing.


It really isn't sour grapes to say the Penguins who played most of the playoffs with a backup goalie and without their best defenseman have caught a few breaks. It is actually what happened.

The validity of shot attempts? You can't be serious...
- Feds91Stammer

Again with the ad hominem.

Yes I question the validity of shot attempts. Any player can flip the pick on the goalie and be credited with a shot attempt.
Not all shots are equal. If you are going to use a flawed stat at least use high danger shot attempts.

Again with the ad hominem.

Yes I question the validity of shot attempts. Any player can flip the pick on the goalie and be credited with a shot attempt.
Not all shots are equal. If you are going to use a flawed stat at least use high danger shot attempts.
- stackthepads

The original point had to due with pace which would increase shot attempts from all locations. Shot attempts isn't flawed but binning data when someone questions your point is.

I literally do not care if the Capitals are good or bad or if they lose. In fact, had I not be tasked to cover the team, I most likely would have cheered for the underdogs.

Anyways, I am being about as objective as it is possible to be here, the Capitals were the better team and they lost. I haven't seen a single serious person dispute this. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to recognize their team got a bit lucky - you still get to keep playing.


It really isn't sour grapes to say the Penguins who played most of the playoffs with a backup goalie and without their best defenseman have caught a few breaks. It is actually what happened.
- james_tanner1

The Caps were beaten by the Pens defensive system.

Looks alot more likely to me that the Pens identified at the beginning of the playoffs that they would have to go through the Caps and without Letang their transition game would suffer too much vs the Caps neutral zone scheme. So the Pens designed a defensive scheme to keep the Caps out of the places goals are scored from and let them have the shots from the outside. Looks like the used the CBJ series to practice this scheme.

The Caps for all their greatness were unable or more likely were arrogant and thought they didnt need to adapt and lost because of it. They frustrated themselves game after game throwing pucks into Pens blocks, and their defence with all its depth and their vezina winning goalie were not up to the task.

The Caps were beaten by the Pens defensive system.

Looks alot more likely to me that the Pens identified at the beginning of the playoffs that they would have to go through the Caps and without Letang their transition game would suffer too much vs the Caps neutral zone scheme. So the Pens designed a defensive scheme to keep the Caps out of the places goals are scored from and let them have the shots from the outside. Looks like the used the CBJ series to practice this scheme.

The Caps for all their greatness were unable or more likely were arrogant and thought they didnt need to adapt and lost because of it. They frustrated themselves game after game throwing pucks into Pens blocks, and their defence with all its depth and their vezina winning goalie were not up to the task.
- stackthepads

That's actually not true at all, as a scoring chance is defined by the areas where goals are scored.. the Capitals out scoring chanced the Penguins 197-119.

The original point had to due with pace which would increase shot attempts from all locations. Shot attempts isn't flawed but binning data when someone questions your point is.
- Feds91Stammer

Pace refers to speed, not shot attempts.

That's actually not true at all, as a scoring chance is defined by the areas where goals are scored.. the Capitals out scoring chanced the Penguins 197-119.
- j.boyd919

Goals are scored from all over the ice. So what exact location on the ice constitutes a shot attempt? What the the boundaries?

Tanner is still bitter about being wrong so much that he still looks for any opportunity to shove his "luck" agenda in.

Just keeps showing how little he knows about Hockey, how much of a child he is and just how smart he's not.

Goals are scored from all over the ice. So what exact location on the ice constitutes a shot attempt? What the the boundaries?
- stackthepads

you said...

Looks alot more likely to me that the Pens identified at the beginning of the playoffs that they would have to go through the Caps and without Letang their transition game would suffer too much vs the Caps neutral zone scheme. So the Pens designed a defensive scheme to keep the Caps out of the places goals are scored from and let them have the shots from the outside. Looks like the used the CBJ series to practice this scheme.

What areas were you talking about? Or... are you now backpedaling on your comment?

Tanner is still bitter about being wrong so much that he still looks for any opportunity to shove his "luck" agenda in.

Just keeps showing how little he knows about Hockey, how much of a child he is and just how smart he's not.
- Rinosaur