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Forums :: Blog World :: HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Which defenseman should the Anaheim Ducks trade?
Author Message
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

May 25 @ 3:55 PM ET
And what makes you say that? Because he clearly has said in the past he's watched (in regards to Caps/Pens) every game.
- j.boyd919



If you don't agree with certain people, they can't comprehend that someone else who isn't a moron has a different opinion than them and so they just say you don't watch the games, rather than question anything they believe.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

May 25 @ 3:55 PM ET
https://public.tableau.com/profile/sean.tierney#!/
- j.boyd919


i will check this one out as well.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

May 25 @ 3:58 PM ET
There is a chart two posts above the one you made that proves it. For the record, almost all complaints against me are by people who ignore actual evidence. I am the CNN of hockey bloggers and all I report is fake news.
- James_Tanner


given there is a margin of error to those charts, that chart is telling me vatanen, fowler and lindholm are all good and close.

manson is the surprise standout.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

May 25 @ 3:59 PM ET
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j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

May 25 @ 4:07 PM ET
i will check this one out as well.
- Tumbleweed


There are A LOT of charts on Tierney's you could get lost lol
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

May 25 @ 4:09 PM ET
There are A LOT of charts on Tierney's you could get lost lol
- j.boyd919


was already lost on DTM's twitter feed. need to move on for today
gtrman09
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Irvine, CA
Joined: 07.16.2009

May 25 @ 5:22 PM ET
There is a chart two posts above the one you made that proves it. For the record, almost all complaints against me are by people who ignore actual evidence. I am the CNN of hockey bloggers and all I report is fake news.
- James_Tanner

Nope the people that disagree with you understand that advanced stats are to be used sparingly as they are certainly not evidence of anything, especially wins and losses. Hockey is a team sport and the advanced stats folks seem to ignore that aspect of the game.

So for instance if Randy Carlyle has awful career advanced stats, you people don't factor in that he was given an awfully sh!tty roster to work with in the last year or two of his 1st stint in Anaheim, and mostly all his time in Toronto. We've seen him be a tremendous coach when he's given a competitive roster. And it is usually the case that coaches with good players on their roster tend to have success, and vice versa. But just a few days ago you called him the worst coach in hockey. You can point to a chart to back that up but you take the advanced stats charts to mean more than they actually mean. And then you said that anyone could coach this Ducks roster (presumably meaning the roster is very good). So he can't "win" with you when he does poorly with a poor team, nor when he does well with a quality team. Also by that logic Quenneville and Bowman were just doing what any of us could have done with the stacked teams they coached.

The last sentence of your post is true. You're actually more blatant than CNN though. You're the Buzzfeed of hockey bloggers... using selective sources and shoddy misinterpreted "evidence" to reach whatever conclusion you started with, never even allowing for the possibility of correction.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 25 @ 5:31 PM ET
Nope the people that disagree with you understand that advanced stats are to be used sparingly as they are certainly not evidence of anything, especially wins and losses. Hockey is a team sport and the advanced stats folks seem to ignore that aspect of the game.

So for instance if Randy Carlyle has awful career advanced stats, you people don't factor in that he was given an awfully sh!tty roster to work with in the last year or two of his 1st stint in Anaheim, and mostly all his time in Toronto. We've seen him be a tremendous coach when he's given a competitive roster. And it is usually the case that coaches with good players on their roster tend to have success, and vice versa. But just a few days ago you called him the worst coach in hockey. You can point to a chart to back that up but you take the advanced stats charts to mean more than they actually mean. And then you said that anyone could coach this Ducks roster (presumably meaning the roster is very good). So he can't "win" with you when he does poorly with a poor team, nor when he does well with a quality team. Also by that logic Quenneville and Bowman were just doing what any of us could have done with the stacked teams they coached.

The last sentence of your post is true. You're actually more blatant than CNN though. You're the Buzzfeed of hockey bloggers... using selective sources and shoddy misinterpreted "evidence" to reach whatever conclusion you started with, never even allowing for the possibility of correction.

- gtrman09

Carlyle just benched Theodore for Bieksa...
gtrman09
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Irvine, CA
Joined: 07.16.2009

May 25 @ 5:35 PM ET
Carlyle just benched Theodore for Bieksa...
- Feds91Stammer

Right... so in your opinion how many more turnovers should Theodore have been allowed to make before he made the switch?
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 25 @ 5:44 PM ET
Right... so in your opinion how many more turnovers should Theodore have been allowed to make before he made the switch?
- gtrman09

So because an offensive minded player made a few turnovers you switch to a worse player?
yzermaneely
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Poway, CA
Joined: 12.17.2011

May 25 @ 5:45 PM ET
Today we learned that Tanner thinks Vatanen is a better player than Fowler. You can't make this stuff up (unless you are James Tanner).
- gtrman09

I know. I almost choked on my lunch over that one. Tanner makes all these arguments that Karlsson is great because he can skate the puck out of trouble. It's almost as if he hasn't watched a Duck game with Fowler in it this season. But I know he has because he talked about how he likes our broadcast.
gtrman09
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Irvine, CA
Joined: 07.16.2009

May 25 @ 6:23 PM ET
So because an offensive minded player made a few turnovers you switch to a worse player?
- Feds91Stammer

no, because an offensive minded player is struggling you switch to a player who is better defensively but without the offensive upside. I realize Bieksa isn't the greatest defensive player either, but at this point in time he is much better defensively than Shea. And I love Shea... full on man crush.
gtrman09
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Irvine, CA
Joined: 07.16.2009

May 25 @ 6:27 PM ET
I know. I almost choked on my lunch over that one. Tanner makes all these arguments that Karlsson is great because he can skate the puck out of trouble. It's almost as if he hasn't watched a Duck game with Fowler in it this season. But I know he has because he talked about how he likes our broadcast.
- yzermaneely

I think he might enjoy the audio portion of Ducks broadcasts whilst his eyes are focused on a computer screen with advanced stats charts.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

May 25 @ 7:33 PM ET
I know. I almost choked on my lunch over that one. Tanner makes all these arguments that Karlsson is great because he can skate the puck out of trouble. It's almost as if he hasn't watched a Duck game with Fowler in it this season. But I know he has because he talked about how he likes our broadcast.
- yzermaneely


The Ducks have one of the best broadcasts in the NHL.

The thing about Fowler is that he scores points and that makes people overrate him. It's weird - some D who score get labeled defensive liabilities for no reason at all (Jake Gardiner) while other players who are not effective get a free pass.

It's almost as if the whims of fans are based on reputation and repeated from whatever whacky observations are made on television broadcasts.

Cam Fowler is a player who is a bottom pairing, negative impact player at 5v5. Much like Ristolainen, the PP offense doesn't much make up for the horrendous even-strength play.

Either way, I've seen Fowler play a ton and he's good with the puck. That's it.
hardenx
Season Ticket Holder
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Garden Grove, CA
Joined: 06.15.2011

May 25 @ 9:01 PM ET
With shoulder surgeries announced today, Lindholm is out 4-5 months and Vatanen is out longer. Ducks aren't trading any D. Murray will trade futures to Vegas to keep Fowler around through the expansion draft, and then move him before the deadline if they can't get him re-signed.
batman8990
Montreal Canadiens
Location: QC
Joined: 04.26.2017

May 25 @ 10:42 PM ET
With shoulder surgeries announced today, Lindholm is out 4-5 months and Vatanen is out longer. Ducks aren't trading any D. Murray will trade futures to Vegas to keep Fowler around through the expansion draft, and then move him before the deadline if they can't get him re-signed.
- hardenx


1) A team can trade an injured player, so trades are still possible for the Ducks.

2) What futures? Anaheim doesnt have a 1st round pick in 17 and wont give prospects like Kerdiles, Nattinen, Sideroff to Vegas because they are valuable for Bob Murray.

3) LeBrun said today that a contract extension is very likely between the Ducks and Fowler.
gtrman09
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Irvine, CA
Joined: 07.16.2009

May 26 @ 3:05 PM ET
The Ducks have one of the best broadcasts in the NHL.

The thing about Fowler is that he scores points and that makes people overrate him. It's weird - some D who score get labeled defensive liabilities for no reason at all (Jake Gardiner) while other players who are not effective get a free pass.

It's almost as if the whims of fans are based on reputation and repeated from whatever whacky observations are made on television broadcasts.

Cam Fowler is a player who is a bottom pairing, negative impact player at 5v5. Much like Ristolainen, the PP offense doesn't much make up for the horrendous even-strength play.

Either way, I've seen Fowler play a ton and he's good with the puck. That's it.

- James_Tanner

Wouldn't he be effective simply by virtue of the fact that he scores points?

So he scores points and he's rather good at using his legs to negate the opposing forecheck and move the puck.

No need to try to refute the bottom-pairing comment, that's just (frank)ing stupid and you know it.
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