Rightly so re: Bellemare criticism.
- StepfordSam

By the esteemed opinion of Hockey buzz anyway.

International & NHL General Managers, scouts, and coaches seem to disagree. If only they gave those jobs to the residents of these threads.

I agree with the youth being the part that will define Hextall, but I do think the "veteran players" part he was mentioning was in regards to Hextall's evaluation of pro talent when the time becomes necessary
- YuenglingJagr

Agree that will be necessary but I also think red flags are being created prematurely due to impatience with Hextall's plan. My biggest concern is obviously Giroux's level of play. Fortunately they may have lucked into the perfect solution for that with the #2 pick. A lot of pressure to put on who ever they draft but there is enough potential to set my hopes on.

You could look at any situation and come up with a hypothetical. It's about what the Flyers were comfortable with. I could offer umpteen hypotheticals to counter what you stated they could've done. What's obvious is that one they are comfortable with Neuvirth as the starter as a fall back position if they can't find another goalie to either take over as the starter or to share the net.
- MJL

Ahhh the ol' hypothetical. It is as if there are umpteen hypotheticals because the Flyers had other options...

Different players are signed to contracts for different reasons and to fill different roles.
- MJL

IN MY OPINION they signed him to that contract for reasons outlined in my previous post. I know you want to throw every team and every player in the same pot and call it all the same. The Flyers did what they felt they needed to do. IN MY OPINION, it's pretty obvious why they did what they did. It's not what I would prefer they had done, but it is what it is.
- MJL

wanting to sign someone that they're comfortable with being a starter, which they could've waited until today to do anyway, is different than Neuvirth having leverage on Hextall.

It is your opinion though, so can't ever be wrong. I'm going to find something else to do now

By the esteemed opinion of Hockey buzz anyway.

International & NHL General Managers, scouts, and coaches seem to disagree. If only they gave those jobs to the residents of these threads.
- Baxter27

confused by that

anyway...it isn't like it comes from nowhere. There are stats that show how good he is

Agree that will be necessary but I also think red flags are being created prematurely due to impatience with Hextall's plan. My biggest concern is obviously Giroux's level of play. Fortunately they may have lucked into the perfect solution for that with the #2 pick. A lot of pressure to put on who ever they draft but there is enough potential to set my hopes on.
- Baxter27

I think Giroux will bounce back this season. I don't mean like 2011-2012 Giroux, but I think he'll get back to the 20g 50+ assist category

Ahhh the ol' hypothetical. It is as if there are umpteen hypotheticals because the Flyers had other options...





wanting to sign someone that they're comfortable with being a starter, which they could've waited until today to do anyway, is different than Neuvirth having leverage on Hextall.

It is your opinion though, so can't ever be wrong. I'm going to find something else to do now
- YuenglingJagr

LOL, you crack me up. With your approach I could find any hypothetical out there to counter any move that any GM has done. Neuvirth had some leverage on Hextall with the situation which is why Neuvirth got the contract he did. It's pretty obvious to me.

Your response of BS and juvenile gifs simply isn't a intelligent response to a legitimate hockey conversation.

I think Giroux will bounce back this season. I don't mean like 2011-2012 Giroux, but I think he'll get back to the 20g 50+ assist category
- Streit2ThePoint

20 goals, 65-70 points is my expectation for G. And, if Patrick or Hischier can be a 1C in a year or 2, that will be fine. Going into 19-20, which is the soonest I see them contending, with Patrick/Hischier, G, and Couturier as their top 3 centers works just fine for me.

Agree that will be necessary but I also think red flags are being created prematurely due to impatience with Hextall's plan. My biggest concern is obviously Giroux's level of play. Fortunately they may have lucked into the perfect solution for that with the #2 pick. A lot of pressure to put on who ever they draft but there is enough potential to set my hopes on.
- Baxter27

yuengling was right on explaining it. Whether the flyers are going for it or not. The kind of players hexy has targeted in ufa is alarming. Gordon, while not a cap inhibiting signing, was a red flag signing because man you believed he's not a player that can contribute to an NHL team. Which was proven right. The dale weise deal, in particular the term, is a big head scratcher when the team is going to be looking to carve out bottom 6 roles for young players in the organization.

He hasn't done well to add players through ufa that are contributing to a poor teamThat hasn't happened yet.

Weal needs to be retained, needs to be a priority. He's done well on trades with gudas and weal.

confused by that

anyway...it isn't like it comes from nowhere. There are stats that show how good he is
- YuenglingJagr

If only players were assessed using stats, you might have a point. Then there is the question of how good the stats are.

confused by that

anyway...it isn't like it comes from nowhere. There are stats that show how good he is
- YuenglingJagr

I'll explain my point. Before even being signed by the Flyers there was interest from a number of different NHL teams including the Chicago Blackhawks I believe. Since then he has gained the trust of 2 NHL coaches and played big roles on World Championship and World Cup teams. There was also interest in him at the TDL.

The stats that are being used to degrade him as a player are being selected by those with a preconceived bias that he doesn't belong on the Flyers. Not to honestly evaluate the player. It's been communicated many times that it's not his role to score on the Flyers yet everyone's favourite stat points out how little he scores. I have to wonder if those who continue point this out think all these other hockey minds are ignoring this fact with blind ignorance or perhaps see other benefits to Bellemare as a player?

LOL, you crack me up. With your approach I could find any hypothetical out there to counter any move that any GM has done. Neuvirth had some leverage on Hextall with the situation which is why Neuvirth got the contract he did. It's pretty obvious to me.

Your response of BS and juvenile gifs simply isn't a intelligent response to a legitimate hockey conversation.
- MJL

yuengling was right on explaining it. Whether the flyers are going for it or not. The kind of players hexy has targeted in ufa is alarming. Gordon, while not a cap inhibiting signing, was a red flag signing because man you believed he's not a player that can contribute to an NHL team. Which was proven right. The dale weise deal, in particular the term, is a big head scratcher when the team is going to be looking to carve out bottom 6 roles for young players in the organization.

He hasn't done well to add players through ufa that are contributing to a poor teamThat hasn't happened yet.

Weal needs to be retained, needs to be a priority. He's done well on trades with gudas and weal.
- Just5

Calling it alarming and a red flag is hyperbole. When Gordon was signed, Bill Meltzer outlined the reasoning behind the signing as did I. Unfortunately you can't always predict when a player is going to fall off a cliff. Gordon was a zero risk signing. I think questioning the term given to Wiese is fair at this point but still doesn't reach the level of alarming.

I think Giroux will bounce back this season. I don't mean like 2011-2012 Giroux, but I think he'll get back to the 20g 50+ assist category
- Streit2ThePoint

I hope so. Based on last season (World Cup, NHL and World Championships) I can't see him hitting 20 goals again. Could definitely see 50+ assists though. He needs to have a good off season and get back to racing horses.

Gordon was signed to be a 4C or 13th forward, but his body broke down so he got sent to the AHL. His $950,000 cap hit wasn't an accident.

I'll explain my point. Before even being signed by the Flyers there was interest from a number of different NHL teams including the Chicago Blackhawks I believe. Since then he has gained the trust of 2 NHL coaches and played big roles on World Championship and World Cup teams. There was also interest in him at the TDL.

The stats that are being used to degrade him as a player are being selected by those with a preconceived bias that he doesn't belong on the Flyers. Not to honestly evaluate the player. It's been communicated many times that it's not his role to score on the Flyers yet everyone's favourite stat points out how little he scores. I have to wonder if those who continue point this out think all these other hockey minds are ignoring this fact with blind ignorance or perhaps see other benefits to Bellemare as a player?
- Baxter27

I like PEB. I think having to center VdV and a revolving door of right wings did him no favors. I actually think he'll do better at ES playing LW and if they put him with a decent center and RW, which they should be able to do, I think he can put up 8-10 goals. I also think he could be a more effective PKer if he was partnered with a more effective player rather than a glorified AHLer like VdV.

Calling it alarming and a red flag is hyperbole. When Gordon was signed, Bill Meltzer outlined the reasoning behind the signing as did I. Unfortunately you can't always predict when a player is going to fall off a cliff. Gordon was a zero risk signing. I think questioning the term given to Wiese is fair at this point but still doesn't reach the level of alarming.
- MJL

The success of the Weise signing is still, IMO, to be determined. If he can continue to play as effectively as he did during the last month or so of the season, than it was a good signing. However, if he reverts back to what we saw earlier in the season, than he was a bust.

Gordon was signed to be a 4C or 13th forward, but his body broke down so he got sent to the AHL. His $950,000 cap hit wasn't an accident.
- Feanor

Exactly. He was veteran of over 600 NHL games who in past seasons has been able to contribute on the PK and was a solid faceoff guy. It was a completely no risk signing. The fact that this move is harped on is mind boggling.

The success of the Weise signing is still, IMO, to be determined. If he can continue to play as effectively as he did during the last month or so of the season, than it was a good signing. However, if he reverts back to what we saw earlier in the season, than he was a bust.
- BiggE

Agreed.

I like PEB. I think having to center VdV and a revolving door of right wings did him no favors. I actually think he'll do better at ES playing LW and if they put him with a decent center and RW, which they should be able to do, I think he can put up 8-10 goals. I also think he could be a more effective PKer if he was partnered with a more effective player rather than a glorified AHLer like VdV.
- BiggE

The only problem I really have with Bellemare is his poor faceoff ability on the PK. I also think he could move to the wing and play solid hockey. I also think if he was surrounded by better talent he also might be able to produce more offensively.

I just want to say that, when compared to other 4th line players across the NHL, Boyd Gordon was not a good player.

Compared to the average person world-wide, he is an exceptionally talented hockey player.

I'll explain my point. Before even being signed by the Flyers there was interest from a number of different NHL teams including the Chicago Blackhawks I believe. Since then he has gained the trust of 2 NHL coaches and played big roles on World Championship and World Cup teams. There was also interest in him at the TDL.

The stats that are being used to degrade him as a player are being selected by those with a preconceived bias that he doesn't belong on the Flyers. Not to honestly evaluate the player. It's been communicated many times that it's not his role to score on the Flyers yet everyone's favourite stat points out how little he scores. I have to wonder if those who continue point this out think all these other hockey minds are ignoring this fact with blind ignorance or perhaps see other benefits to Bellemare as a player?
- Baxter27

LOL, you crack me up. With your approach I could find any hypothetical out there to counter any move that any GM has done. Neuvirth had some leverage on Hextall with the situation which is why Neuvirth got the contract he did. It's pretty obvious to me.

Your response of BS and juvenile gifs simply isn't a intelligent response to a legitimate hockey conversation.
- MJL

it isn't a legitimate hockey conversation. it is you repeatedly dancing around ideas that are based on what has actually happened so far this season/offseason to avoid saying you're wrong. and me making fun of it by posting gifs.

Hextall didn't get backed into a corner to pay a guy as more than a backup, as you've said, while at the same time wanting someone on the team next year to be more than a backup, as you've said.

That makes no sense, which is why I said something about it. The intent wasn't to talk about it for 3 pages when it is obviously going nowhere. [obligatory statement about how I should know that by now]

The only problem I really have with Bellemare is his poor faceoff ability on the PK. I also think he could move to the wing and play solid hockey. I also think if he was surrounded by better talent he also might be able to produce more offensively.
- MJL

I agree about his faceoff shortcomings, without knowing for sure who is on the roster, I would like to see them try a rotation like this on the PK:

Giroux-Bellemare
Coots-Simmonds
Filpulla-Bellemare
Coots-????

The ??? could be Simmonds, or preferably since he already gets a lot of icetime, one of Laughton, Read, Raffl, Weal, or even a kid like TK or Patrick if he ends up being our guy.

yuengling was right on explaining it. Whether the flyers are going for it or not. The kind of players hexy has targeted in ufa is alarming. Gordon, while not a cap inhibiting signing, was a red flag signing because man you believed he's not a player that can contribute to an NHL team. Which was proven right. The dale weise deal, in particular the term, is a big head scratcher when the team is going to be looking to carve out bottom 6 roles for young players in the organization.

He hasn't done well to add players through ufa that are contributing to a poor teamThat hasn't happened yet.

Weal needs to be retained, needs to be a priority. He's done well on trades with gudas and weal.
- Just5

Although the results weren't there, Hextall made the Weise(who looked good to me from about the midpoint of the season) and Gordon signings with solid logic. He needed more size and scoring on the wings(Weise) and a faceoff specialist to take some pressure off Giroux. Sometimes moves just don't work out no matter how well they were thought out. I still believe Weise can contribute to this team.

No one was complaining about the Neuvirth deal he signed in 2015 UFA. He hasn't taken many big swings so I don't really see a fair sample to evaluate. That being said everything has been well calculated from my perspective. No major unnecessary risks. Minor tweaks which have been a bit underwhelming overall.

I would totally trade for and buyout Bieksa if they were willing to make it worth it for the Flyers
- YuenglingJagr

How about:
Bieksa +Montour/Manson (I'd prefer Manson) for Raffl + 3rd???

If the Flyers are taking Bieksa on and 1/3 over 2 years, I want either a high pick or a player that we can slot in right now.

They'd probably prefer to trade one of Fowler/Vatanen to get a better return, but they still have to move Bieksa as well unless they want to lose a good forward with the 4/4/1 scheme.