And you are positive of this after:
Baun 5 games in NHL
Hayden 12 games in NHL
Forsling 38 games in NHL
Hino 56 games in NHL
Schmaltz 61 games in NHL
*regular season games
I have a higher opinion of them and will give them a chance to develop.

I am surprised the sun rises and sets in Chicago with Dale Tallon not being there to command it and eliminate any clouds.

Wirtz is making ownership decisions. McDonough is making business decisions. Bowman(s) is making hockey decisions. Q is making coaching decisions. They each have done pretty well and are well respected throughout the league. I am sure they each influence each other, more so from the top down. They have made some mistakes, but to suggest that these guys are idiots is laughable.
- -Doh-

One thing that resonated with me is the way the PREDS were able to allow their picks to grow and develop in the AHL, Same for Ducks under Dallas Ekins. I believe it was JJ a while back who commented on the need to rush young-ins up driven by salary cap blood letting (my spin) may have actually shunted their growth. And we have the Mark McNeil outlyer who could spend 40 years in the AHL and still not make the parent club. Long way of saying the talent pipeline is dry.

Sounds like this team is primed for a quick decline into the lottery zone. No help form the prospects, a GM that can't make a deal, a frustrated coach, and an inept CEO.
- DarthKane

Could be.

Red hot McDonough.

But the realist knows some partial tear down is necessary.

We know that difference makers, eg future core players, usually come from high draft choices. And or drafting well throughout. Pully liked to be competituve with veterans. Just saying, what course might please McDonough. Is it Stan's first choice how to re-tool. I dk. But i abhor any more of these Leddy for Pokka trades.

Lest the Blackhawks just poke along.

Flyer: Nate Thompson. He made $1.6 M last year. Was 53% on FO. Tough. He only played 30 games, so I don't believe he will make more. He's probably a little slow and he's already 32, but for a year or two for a bottom 6 center? If they can fit him in...sign him!

A couple of random thoughts from last nights war...

1. Did Mike Fisher look more than a bit off when the camera picked up on him during the psot game.
2. Randy Carlye - King of excuses felt they lost because they played 7 games in 13 days. He forgot about:

a. Kessler still has not learned you cant score when your playing like a wrecking ball
b. A thugs life in general does not win series. More than often those teams do run out of gas
c. Often injured Gibson pulled up lame - thoughts of Bishop ran through my mind
d. For those that believe in Karma, the cheap shots did not pay off
3. Did anyone else see Kessler throw a punch in the face of 20 while an official looked on in the last 5 minutes. I thought of calling 911 from my home as surely the official had swallowed his whistle and was choking

Could be.

Red hot McDonough.

But the realist knows some partial tear down is necessary.

We know that difference makers, eg future core players, usually come from high draft choices. And or drafting well throughout. Pully liked to be competituve with veterans. Just saying, what course might please McDonough. Is it Stan's first choice how to re-tool. I dk. But i abhor any more of these Leddy for Pokka trades.

Lest the Blackhawks just poke along.
- jhawk59

Change needs to happen for sure, I'm not debating that. But I don't think the landscape is as barren as some people believe. I don't believe all the prospects will become NHLers, but I also don't believe they will all fail either. I do believe Stan is capable of making a decent hockey trade, but it's not a slam dunk. The Leddy and Sharp trades were salary dumps so I wouldn't use those to gauge Stan's performance. This summer some minor moves need to be made for the cap, but more significant moves need to be made for on-ice reasons.

A couple of random thoughts from last nights war...

1. Did Mike Fisher look more than a bit off when the camera picked up on him during the psot game.
2. Randy Carlye - King of excuses felt they lost because they played 7 games in 13 days. He forgot about:

a. Kessler still has not learned you cant score when your playing like a wrecking ball
b. A thugs life in general does not win series. More than often those teams do run out of gas
c. Often injured Gibson pulled up lame - thoughts of Bishop ran through my mind
d. For those that believe in Karma, the cheap shots did not pay off
3. Did anyone else see Kessler throw a punch in the face of 20 while an official looked on in the last 5 minutes. I thought of calling 911 from my home as surely the official had swallowed his whistle and was choking
- riozzo

Dude, I saw MANY ducks throwing punches to the faces of Preds during play. It was egregious.

Kane in a WGN interview this morning, doing some limited analysis of what happened. I'm sure I'm projecting, but I don't hear him being confident about the Hawks.

http://wgnradio.com/2017/...ut-im-still-a-hockey-fan/

"Collapse?" More of a sag, and a sag that they didn't anticipate for at least a couple more years.

That's why the salary structure is so bollocksed up—they're stuck unless they do some more significant re-engineering this summer. And IMO, they have to or it's just a facade til the actual rebuild begins in the next couple of years.

Good news is, as I've maintained, it's doable, there is still a LOT of talent on this club, but it will require the FO to be more bold and creative in how it moves on players than it has been the past several summers. And a sacred cow or two (players and/or prospects) will be sacrificed.
- John Jaeckel

I am all aboard with your suggestions.

I fear however stumbling in the hallways in the hockey offices and just what impact will McDonough impose. I do believe anything McDonough whispers into Rocky's ear is A ok with Rocky you know in a manly non sexual way.

Hawks will be treading water this fall as Rainman and a couple others mention...when you look at some of the projected lineups and the early teetimes its pretty realistic. Everyone is talking about moving guys who have no trade/no movers or recapture penalties.

Bowman the great capologist has handcuffed this team with continued bad trades and bloated contracts. Bowman's out over his skis and should be gone, but he's McD's pet and isn't going anywhere. His drafting record over his tenure here hasn't been that stellar either. I would refer to some homework done by Tommyhawk I believe a few blogs back in regard to this.

What's Q's shelf life...he's won 3 cups here? I think we'd all like to see this team have more of an edge to it and play with more physicality and bite. The 2010 team which Dale molded had that style to it. The stick check ballet continues at this point for the Hawks. This team seams soft and was forced to the perimeter when the games counted. Meanwhile dreadful special teams at both ends of the ice killed this team. As soon as Panarin got his bonus he couldn't seem to find the net on that one timer play which we all saw Sharp do during his time here. Meanwhile the pk box continued to do little and Stan in his moment of glory and power fired kitch.

Bottom line - Q will easily find another coaching gig when his time here is done - Bowman well I can't imagine another club wanting him as their GM.

As far as this team quitting this spring - they were outplayed by a team who's now in the Finals. Full marks to the Preds who even after losing their top two centers are still on autopilot and look like they can bring home the hardware. The Hawks had too many rookies trumpeted by the front office and a bunch of vets who have a lot of miles on those tires. The Preds have a ton of young talent especially on the backend and finally added some offense to that. The Hawks looked old and slow.
- DK002

Well said and sadly for Jeff Scissons hes not on the Hawks otherwise Bowman would give him 2-3 million and a full NMC>>>>>>>>>>>>

That's my point on some of these arguments about who steps in for this guy at center (kruger) etc.....well........whos the main shut down center in Pittsburgh? Who is the main shut down center in Ottawa? Nashville? IF parity is upon us, you can find these guys all throughout the league when the playoffs start.

Now what you DO need is 2 legit centers.....and AA vs Kruger is a no brainer. You keep AA every day of the week. we have been through the illustrious past of how Kruger can center talent. No. he/ Cant. Just like Bolland couldn't and became expendable. Kruger has no guarantee that hand/wrist will be better and has ZERO track record to prove he has the offensive instincts to play with those players.

Sami Pahlsson, John Madden, Dave Bolland, Marcus Kruger.....there will be others.

You forgot to mention one more jerk - Nick Ritchie.
- RickJ

Believe it was Aarvidson who went face first into the dasher and he's damn lucky he ddn't suffer Kris Draper's fate. What a dirty hit but a clown.

Ducks are the Canucks. Good to see Bieska take his loss like a man trying to cross check a guy from behind with under a 1 minute left, down by 3 and then trying to go all coked out 1980s enforcer on anyone he could grab and a special touch taking a stick inside the tunnel.

Hope Getzlaf and Perry enjoy their summers.........Bob Murray has to consider retooling that roster much like Washington needs to.....all Anaheim does is choke.

Change needs to happen for sure, I'm not debating that. But I don't think the landscape is as barren as some people believe. I don't believe all the prospects will become NHLers, but I also don't believe they will all fail either. I do believe Stan is capable of making a decent hockey trade, but it's not a slam dunk. The Leddy and Sharp trades were salary dumps so I wouldn't use those to gauge Stan's performance. This summer some minor moves need to be made for the cap, but more significant moves need to be made for on-ice reasons.
- DarthKane

Hey i am right with you on all you say here. The voice of reason is just how you put it vis - a - vis the somewhat tumultuous Bowman tenure. Honestly he has made some good moves and some not too good. I realize i might get carried away sometimes with a strong dissent, but all this Bowman hatred is plainly wrong. He is capable, true (sigh) but yes he may not make all good future transactions. I was just poking fun at the name of the less than great prospect came over in the Leddy salary dump. We have to hope Stan can do a good job so Blackhawks are not going to be pokka ling along. In Stan I trust more than a certain politician whose name adorns large buildings not only in this country.

And you are positive of this after:
Baun 5 games in NHL
Hayden 12 games in NHL
Forsling 38 games in NHL
Hino 56 games in NHL
Schmaltz 61 games in NHL
*regular season games
I have a higher opinion of them and will give them a chance to develop.

I am surprised the sun rises and sets in Chicago with Dale Tallon not being there to command it and eliminate any clouds.

Wirtz is making ownership decisions. McDonough is making business decisions. Bowman(s) is making hockey decisions. Q is making coaching decisions. They each have done pretty well and are well respected throughout the league. I am sure they each influence each other, more so from the top down. They have made some mistakes, but to suggest that these guys are idiots is laughable.
- -Doh-

I was pro Dale, so my logic was always a little blind when the cut was fresh......

8 years later I give Bowman a lot of credit. he deserves it. However the major issue I have and can't be stressed enough is the cap management of this team is downright awful. I would give it almost a D since about 2013 and on.

Yeah, you have to pay for success.....and you can't control guys looking to make large jumps, but what is somewhat humorous to me is the money the Hawks woudlnt' give Saad, they did give Panarin.

Now this offseason it's all come crashing to a head. there isn't an aging Sharp to trade. Nope. You have to probably trade your 2nd and 3rd lne centers baring some off the wall move, which realistically I think anyone here would be shocked if they did trade Panarin or Hammer or Seabrook or even Hossa.

That's my problem. McDonough made the brand and going to a Hawks game a MUST. wirtz governed like a true business and not a clown like his father. Truthfully if you look at it Rocky had it a little easy as the franchise was at a low point he didn't need to do much to look better then his father.

I think Q is a HOF coach but he has his warts......

Time will tell but I contend this summer wont' see as many BIG moves as everyone is hoping or conspiring for......and the more you watch Nashville you realize how bad the Hawks truly were in the playoffs.

- DarthKane

So true, this made my day! hahahaha

A couple of random thoughts from last nights war...

1. Did Mike Fisher look more than a bit off when the camera picked up on him during the psot game.
2. Randy Carlye - King of excuses felt they lost because they played 7 games in 13 days. He forgot about:

a. Kessler still has not learned you cant score when your playing like a wrecking ball
b. A thugs life in general does not win series. More than often those teams do run out of gas
c. Often injured Gibson pulled up lame - thoughts of Bishop ran through my mind
d. For those that believe in Karma, the cheap shots did not pay off
3. Did anyone else see Kessler throw a punch in the face of 20 while an official looked on in the last 5 minutes. I thought of calling 911 from my home as surely the official had swallowed his whistle and was choking
- riozzo

Should of called. You see in golf now you can call and change a tourney, maybe a slight delay, but they would of stopped the game and called it

Change needs to happen for sure, I'm not debating that. But I don't think the landscape is as barren as some people believe. I don't believe all the prospects will become NHLers, but I also don't believe they will all fail either. I do believe Stan is capable of making a decent hockey trade, but it's not a slam dunk. The Leddy and Sharp trades were salary dumps so I wouldn't use those to gauge Stan's performance. This summer some minor moves need to be made for the cap, but more significant moves need to be made for on-ice reasons.
- DarthKane

Ok take some time on this and give me your ideal summer......You are 3+ million over the cap as of NOW. Most reports are stating a small increase, so lets go with a 74.5 ceiling.......give me your 2017-18 roster.

I respect your take so I know you won't be floating out asinine deals that will never happen............

Just gonna add, broken record time:

- too many players force fit into the wrong roles, and too many inexperienced players force fit
- very weak on faceoffs
- forward depth weak
- slow, small team (relatively speaking)
- John Jaeckel

I agree , I thought Nashville made us look really slow !

Would you trade Panarin for Landeskog? I think Skog would be a perfect LW partner for 19. Skog is a fast/physical winger who can score. Dunno.. spit ballin


Skog 19 14
38 15 88

More balanced top 2 lines . 14 and Skog give 19 two wingers who will attack on the forecheck and bring a more physical presence.

Would you trade Panarin for Landeskog? I think Skog would be a perfect LW partner for 19. Skog is a fast/physical winger who can score. Dunno.. spit ballin
- z1990z

In terms of swapping players who will actually upgrade the roster by filling the needs the team has, I personally would consider a trade of Panarin for Landeskog. Agree that Landsekog is a fast, physical winger who has great leadership traits. Paired with the right linemates, he could regain his offensive output from the start of his career and get back to 50-60 points per year.

I'm sure this is an X-Box trade since I doubt we could swing another deal or a blockbuster deal to get Duchene as well, but I'd be willing to give up Panarin, Anisimov, Kruger, Forsling, and possibly Hartman (ideally another player or prospect or two instead) for Landeskog and Duchene.

Ok take some time on this and give me your ideal summer......You are 3+ million over the cap as of NOW. Most reports are stating a small increase, so lets go with a 74.5 ceiling.......give me your 2017-18 roster.

I respect your take so I know you won't be floating out asinine deals that will never happen............
- SteveRain

Hopefully this is what it will be, salary cap is projected to be $75.5M-$76M next season.

Ok take some time on this and give me your ideal summer......You are 3+ million over the cap as of NOW. Most reports are stating a small increase, so lets go with a 74.5 ceiling.......give me your 2017-18 roster.

I respect your take so I know you won't be floating out asinine deals that will never happen............
- SteveRain

A good idea would be for several posters to go to cap friendly and use their "arm chair GM" tool to play with the roster using a $74.5mil cap. I did that yesterday. It is kind of interesting and challenging. The need to move 2 big salaries and not take anything back. I chose Anisimov (replace with Hartmann) and Kruger (with Debrincat and Kero) being the 3rd and 4th centers. It would be interesting to see other peoples' scenarios.

Ok take some time on this and give me your ideal summer......You are 3+ million over the cap as of NOW. Most reports are stating a small increase, so lets go with a 74.5 ceiling.......give me your 2017-18 roster.

I respect your take so I know you won't be floating out asinine deals that will never happen............
- SteveRain

A $74.5 million cap would certainly make things interesting. If the cap could go to at least $75.5 the outlook is much brighter for the Hawks.

There are certainly a variety of different trade scenarios that Stan could take, but I went with the fewest trades / least amount of change route. I fully acknowledge that Stan could make one or more bigger moves and the roster would look completely different. I am not saying I endorse the below roster, it's just a way I can make the numbers work.

Hartman - Toews - Panik
Panarin - Schmaltz - Kane
Hayden - Kruger - Hossa
Jurco - Kero - Rasmussen
Tootoo

Keith - Seabrook
TvR - Hjalmarsson
Kempney - Forsling
Rozsival

- Kempny signed for $850,000
- Jurco signed for $750,000
- Rasmussen signed for $650,000
- Anisimov traded for picks
- Remaining cap space ~ $900,000

On the bright side, this is the last year we'll have the big bonus carry forward from Panarin.

I'm not an expert Darth , but watching the kid , not sold on him, Talent yes, Heart, want, make up.... No!
Watching this Preds team , and even our cup winning teams, Panerin and Anisomov , in my opinion do not have the desire to lay it out at all costs to win a cup. If Bowman could find a GM to make a big trade , send both of them packing, sell high my man , I'll take Saad and Shaw in their place.
- wonthecup10

Agreed.

In terms of swapping players who will actually upgrade the roster by filling the needs the team has, I personally would consider a trade of Panarin for Landeskog. Agree that Landsekog is a fast, physical winger who has great leadership traits. Paired with the right linemates, he could regain his offensive output from the start of his career and get back to 50-60 points per year.

I'm sure this is an X-Box trade since I doubt we could swing another deal or a blockbuster deal to get Duchene as well, but I'd be willing to give up Panarin, Anisimov, Kruger, Forsling, and possibly Hartman (ideally another player or prospect or two instead) for Landeskog and Duchene.
- AEL_Fox

I would too. But how do you make the math work. You are giving up $15.4 mil and only taking back $12.3 mil. But in this 5 for 2 deal you need to add 3 more players to fill out the roster so that is probably $2.4 mil (3 players x $800,000). Play with cap friendly armchair it is very useful.

A $74.5 million cap would certainly make things interesting. If the cap could go to at least $75.5 the outlook is much brighter for the Hawks.

There are certainly a variety of different trade scenarios that Stan could take, but I went with the fewest trades / least amount of change route. I fully acknowledge that Stan could make one or more bigger moves and the roster would look completely different. I am not saying I endorse the below roster, it's just a way I can make the numbers work.

Hartman - Toews - Panik
Panarin - Schmaltz - Kane
Hayden - Kruger - Hossa
Jurco - Kero - Rasmussen
Tootoo

Keith - Seabrook
TvR - Hjalmarsson
Kempney - Forsling
Rozsival

- Kempny signed for $850,000
- Jurco signed for $750,000
- Rasmussen signed for $650,000
- Anisimov traded for picks
- Remaining cap space ~ $900,000

On the bright side, this is the last year we'll have the big bonus carry forward from Panarin.
- DarthKane

I am pretty much in agreement.
I think Kempny gets more than $1mil.
Who do you send to Vegas?

Would you trade Panarin for Landeskog? I think Skog would be a perfect LW partner for 19. Skog is a fast/physical winger who can score. Dunno.. spit ballin


Skog 19 14
38 15 88

More balanced top 2 lines . 14 and Skog give 19 two wingers who will attack on the forecheck and bring a more physical presence.
- z1990z

We basically are exchanging top 6 wingers. We might be marginally better, but just a little.