How would you guys feel if we stayed out of the trade/UFA market completely and just replaced our weak links from last year organizationally?
Johnny Money Ferland
Janko Backlund Frolik
Tkachuk Bennett Versteeg
Brouwer Stajan Lazar/Hathaway
Gio Hamilton
Kylington Brodie
Kulak Rass
Elliott
Gillies/Rittich
Let Janko ride along with Backs and Frolik until he's comfortable with his game (then we can either flip Bennett or Tkachuk back to that line if we think he belongs at Centre over Bennett). That gives us 3 really dangerous lines (who knows, maybe Brouwer bounces back and we have a stellar 4th line too).
Tkachuk could be the perfect player to help Bennett break out (or it could me an unmitigated PIM disaster ).
Our d would make some mistakes granted, but think of the speed and puck moving ability we would have on all 3 pairs I think Kulak is responsible enough defensively to play with a rookie on the bottom pairing. Brodie seems to thrive playing with a partner that likes to jump into the play--Kylington has the speed and could have the perfect skill set to compliment Brodie (plus Kulak Rass gives us a Left-Right pairing).
Honestly, if I saw that lineup on opening night I'd be pretty stoked. We sure as (frank) wouldn't be a boring team to watch
How would you guys feel if we stayed out of the trade/UFA market completely and just replaced our weak links from last year organizationally?
Johnny Money Ferland
Janko Backlund Frolik
Tkachuk Bennett Versteeg
Brouwer Stajan Lazar/Hathaway
Gio Hamilton
Kylington Brodie
Kulak Rass
Elliott
Gillies/Rittich
Let Janko ride along with Backs and Frolik until he's comfortable with his game (then we can either flip Bennett or Tkachuk back to that line if we think he belongs at Centre over Bennett). That gives us 3 really dangerous lines (who knows, maybe Brouwer bounces back and we have a stellar 4th line too).
Tkachuk could be the perfect player to help Bennett break out (or it could me an unmitigated PIM disaster ).
Our d would make some mistakes granted, but think of the speed and puck moving ability we would have on all 3 pairs I think Kulak is responsible enough defensively to play with a rookie on the bottom pairing. Brodie seems to thrive playing with a partner that likes to jump into the play--Kylington has the speed and could have the perfect skill set to compliment Brodie (plus Kulak Rass gives us a Left-Right pairing).
Honestly, if I saw that lineup on opening night I'd be pretty stoked. We sure as (frank) wouldn't be a boring team to watch - Saskabush
I think it depends on your expectations of the team. They will be fun, they will definitely be error prone and we are more than likely talking no playoffs next year with that much youth in the bottom 3 on D. We have some room to play with this year, not that we can spend willy-nilly, and more if we move on from Stajan and/or Brouwer through the expansion draft. I think they find a short term fix in the bottom pairing that is a vet (maybe just Stone), that would add a little more comfort IMO.
If the Flames can do what you suggest and if by some miracle Price makes it to free agency next year (no way MTL lets it happen), I would back the truck up to shore up our goaltending to 2024.
I think it depends on your expectations of the team. They will be fun, they will definitely be error prone and we are more than likely talking no playoffs next year with that much youth in the bottom 3 on D. We have some room to play with this year, not that we can spend willy-nilly, and more if we move on from Stajan and/or Brouwer through the expansion draft. I think they find a short term fix in the bottom pairing that is a vet (maybe just Stone), that would add a little more comfort IMO.
If the Flames can do what you suggest and if by some miracle Price makes it to free agency next year (no way MTL lets it happen), I would back the truck up to shore up our goaltending to 2024. - rmull905
I would actually expect that team to do better than we did last year now that they've bought into the system. The bottom 3 are going to make mistakes and cost us some goals, and we probably wouldn't be poised to make a deep run in the playoffs. But I'd fully expect us to make the playoffs with them.
I very much doubt that Kylington and Rass would be a worse combination than Engellund & Wideman (which is really what it comes down to because the argument can be made that Kulak should have been on that bottom pairing all year last year).
I think Kylington and Rass would contribute more than they cost us, which is more than I could say about Engellund and Wideman.
What this does do is give those young guys experience. If they can continue to develop then all of a sudden we could have one of the best young d-cores in the league going into the 2018-19 season. Then we can ramp up the expectations and maybe spend some money on any upgrades we need to make this team a legit cup contender (Price is an interesting thought).
3 rookie Dmen is a HUGE risk. I'm fine with our bottom pairing being Rass/Kulak or something along those lines, but putting a rookie next to Brodie is a gamble I'm not sure I'm willing to take. Brodie excels when he can trust his partner to have his back, and I'm not sure he could fully trust Kylington.
I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting another year to bring some of our D prospects in. Kulak definitely looks ready to make the NHL full time but the others I'm not so sure are. I'd rather our prospects be ready when they get here than get them in too quickly.
I think for the time being we need a vet to play alongside Brodie and add some stability to the top four, even if it's omly for a year. Stone looked good next to him and it sounds like he wants to come back. I have no problem bringing him back and adding some stability and having the bottom pairing learning the NHL game without having as much responsibility.
3 rookie Dmen is a HUGE risk. I'm fine with our bottom pairing being Rass/Kulak or something along those lines, but putting a rookie next to Brodie is a gamble I'm not sure I'm willing to take. Brodie excels when he can trust his partner to have his back, and I'm not sure he could fully trust Kylington.
I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting another year to bring some of our D prospects in. Kulak definitely looks ready to make the NHL full time but the others I'm not so sure are. I'd rather our prospects be ready when they get here than get them in too quickly.
I think for the time being we need a vet to play alongside Brodie and add some stability to the top four, even if it's omly for a year. Stone looked good next to him and it sounds like he wants to come back. I have no problem bringing him back and adding some stability and having the bottom pairing learning the NHL game without having as much responsibility. - Helios
Stone needs to get a contract from the Flames. Would be pretty happy with the top 4 and then give the kids a shot to shine.
Versteeg needs to be a priority as well. Any thoughts on his value?
3 rookie Dmen is a HUGE risk. I'm fine with our bottom pairing being Rass/Kulak or something along those lines, but putting a rookie next to Brodie is a gamble I'm not sure I'm willing to take. Brodie excels when he can trust his partner to have his back, and I'm not sure he could fully trust Kylington.
I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting another year to bring some of our D prospects in. Kulak definitely looks ready to make the NHL full time but the others I'm not so sure are. I'd rather our prospects be ready when they get here than get them in too quickly.
I think for the time being we need a vet to play alongside Brodie and add some stability to the top four, even if it's omly for a year. Stone looked good next to him and it sounds like he wants to come back. I have no problem bringing him back and adding some stability and having the bottom pairing learning the NHL game without having as much responsibility. - Helios
I'm okay with bringing Stone back at no more than 3 mill. The guy just isn't top 4 material (not interested in tying up significant cap space on a bottom pairing dman).
Sure he looked okay next to Brodie, but I think that had more to do with Brodie not being weighed down by the 50 pound anchor every shift. Playing with Brodie is equivalent to playing with Backs and Frolik, he is going to make whoever plays with him look better than they are.
If we signed Stone I'd want Kulak to play with Brodie and I'd let Rass & Kylington battle for the last spot.
Stone needs to get a contract form the Flames. Would be pretty happy with the top 4 and then give the kids a shot to shine.
Versteeg needs to be a priority as well. Any thoughts on his value? - geta02it
I'd guess his market value would be at ~3 million x 3 years. Ideally I'd like to see him on a 2 x 2.5, but a 3x3 is what I'd bet he gets.
I'd guess his market value would be at ~3 million x 3 years. Ideally I'd like to see him on a 2 x 2.5, but a 3x3 is what I'd bet he gets. - Saskabush
As a top 4 UFA D, and still only 26, he's going to get paid. I think at least $4 million and probably 5 years. Based on how he solidified our top 4, I think i'd be okay with that. Kind of painful but we don't have anyone internally who can slot into the top 4.
As a top 4 UFA D, and still only 26, he's going to get paid. I think at least $4 million and probably 5 years. Based on how he solidified our top 4, I think i'd be okay with that. Kind of painful but we don't have anyone internally who can slot into the top 4. - tincup
Oh, that was for Versteeg not Stone.
You are probably right on Stone's value, which is why I don't have him written in to the future plans. I would rather us cheap out on someone to play with Brodie than overpay for a guy who shouldn't be slotting in any higher than #5 on any somewhat competitive team.
We need to be really smart on our FA signings from now on. If we load up on bad contracts now then we run the risk of blowing our opportunity to win when Johnny, Money & co are in their primes in a few years. We can't afford to waste money on guys just because "there's nobody better".
You are probably right on Stone's value, which is why I don't have him written in to the future plans. I would rather us cheap out on someone to play with Brodie than overpay for a guy who shouldn't be slotting in any higher than #5 on any somewhat competitive team.
We need to be really smart on our FA signings from now on. If we load up on bad contracts now then we run the risk of blowing our opportunity to win when Johnny, Money & co are in their primes in a few years. We can't afford to waste money on guys just because "there's nobody better". - Saskabush
If BT wanted to be smart, he'd take a couple of weeks off in July then go shopping for UFAs. There always seem to be a bargain or two in late summer after everyone's blown themselves up on July 1. Add Vegas to the mix this year and there is going to be some really bad contracts going out at the beginning of July.
I'm okay with bringing Stone back at no more than 3 mill. The guy just isn't top 4 material (not interested in tying up significant cap space on a bottom pairing dman).
Sure he looked okay next to Brodie, but I think that had more to do with Brodie not being weighed down by the 50 pound anchor every shift. Playing with Brodie is equivalent to playing with Backs and Frolik, he is going to make whoever plays with him look better than they are.
If we signed Stone I'd want Kulak to play with Brodie and I'd let Rass & Kylington battle for the last spot. - Saskabush
I am fine with not going crazy in free agency. I Ferland can produce and protect the 1st line is fine.
I would like to see Janko and Bennett on a line. I believe Bennett would prosper from having a little competition. But then look for someone that can teach both kids the tricks of the trade, maybe that is Versteeg.
I would be fine bringing Stone back. I think we have yet to see his best hockey, and before he had his knee surgery he was a good player.
Sign Engelland and let Kulak and FatRass fight for the bottom spot.
Flames did not have any healthy competition in the roster this last year. I think that with all the young guys almost ready to make the jump they should have spots open for those guys.
Versteeg definitely deserves a raise, but he's also made it clear he wants to stay and is from Lethbridge so he might take a hometown discount. He'll probably take around 1.5-2.5 million, which I am more than fine with paying given how he played last year.
Stone is going to take more, but I think it's worth paying him considering how he looked with Brodie and I'm hesitant about giving one of our kids a top 4 role just yet. If we assume 4 million a year for 5 years I think I'd be alright with it since it would bring stability to our top 4 while pur younger Dmen learn the ropes.
I agree we don't need to go crazy on the UFA/Trade market, but we have a lot of money coming off the books and can afford to sign a couple. Versteeg and Stone are the two I'd definitely like to see back, since I think they'll both be reasonably cheap and leave us with some room for Benny's new contract and a goaltender. I'd love to see Engelland back too if we can sign him for cheap enough, but he's not nearly as high of a priority as Versteeg or Stone in my eyes, and as much as I'd love to see a guy like Oshie he's probably going to cost far too much to justify it. I don't know how this solves our top line winger issue but worst case we just put Ferland there again, and maybe one of our forwards in Stockton surprises us.
I am fine with not going crazy in free agency. I Ferland can produce and protect the 1st line is fine.
I would like to see Janko and Bennett on a line. I believe Bennett would prosper from having a little competition. But then look for someone that can teach both kids the tricks of the trade, maybe that is Versteeg.
I would be fine bringing Stone back. I think we have yet to see his best hockey, and before he had his knee surgery he was a good player.
Sign Engelland and let Kulak and FatRass fight for the bottom spot.
Flames did not have any healthy competition in the roster this last year. I think that with all the young guys almost ready to make the jump they should have spots open for those guys.
FFS's buy out BOUMA! - DuranDuran
All of my scenarios have Bouma being bought out.
I know a lot of guys love Engellund and I respect what the guy did for us, but we have to cut ties with him. I'm hoping Vegas takes the option out of BT's hands and signs him during that window.
He's only going to get slower with age. If he would've switched jerseys with Wideman for a night I guarantee you that guys would have been female doging about him. We need to learn our lesson from the Bouma contract and move on. We can't give out contracts to guys just because they have "heart". Heart alone does not win hockey games.
I know a lot of guys love Engellund and I respect what the guy did for us, but we have to cut ties with him. I'm hoping Vegas takes the option out of BT's hands and signs him during that window.
He's only going to get slower with age. If he would've switched jerseys with Wideman for a night I guarantee you that guys would have been female doging about him. We need to learn our lesson from the Bouma contract and move on. We can't give out contracts to guys just because they have "heart". Heart alone does not win hockey games. - Saskabush
Engelland got his contract because we had a bunch of kids coming in and needed someone to stick up for them
Bouma had a career year where he overachieved ...he was paid because of this ...
Both Guys have a lot of heart but that wasn't the key reason they were signed
Engelland got his contract because we had a bunch of kids coming in and needed someone to stick up for them
Bouma had a career year where he overachieved ...he was paid because of this ...
Both Guys have a lot of heart but that wasn't the key reason they were signed - Redmile247
Well, then heart is exactly why Engellund was signed. He didn't get that contract because of his playing ability it was because he fights, hits & blocks shotes (AKA plays with heart).
Most people knew that Bouma's career year was an anomaly, but many on here (myself included) wanted us to resign Bouma precisely because he was a "heart and soul kinda guy who bled for us all year.
We knew what we were most likely getting when we signed Bouma but we went ahead and did it anyway (and we've regretted it ever since). We need to learn from our mistake and let Engellund walk. Thank him for his services and do up a nice little tribute video for his fist game back.
Well, then heart is exactly why Engellund was signed. He didn't get that contract because of his playing ability it was because he fights, hits & blocks shotes (AKA plays with heart).
Most people knew that Bouma's career year was an anomaly, but many on here (myself included) wanted us to resign Bouma precisely because he was a "heart and soul kinda guy who bled for us all year.
We knew what we were most likely getting when we signed Bouma but we went ahead and did it anyway (and we've regretted it ever since). We need to learn from our mistake and let Engellund walk. Thank him for his services and do up a nice little tribute video for his fist game back. - Saskabush
If we all wanted Bouma resigned, I doubt anyone wanted him at that price. Bouma at around $1mil which is what I believe most people on here we're hoping for. England came in to help protect the kids and fill a hole until we had developed replacements. His time should be done. He's getting too old and slow now.
If we all wanted Bouma resigned, I doubt anyone wanted him at that price. Bed bed is at around $1mil which is what I believe most people on here we're hoping for. England came in to help protect the kids and fill a hole until we had developed replacements. His time should be done. He's getting too old and slow now. - TandA4Flames
Yeah, I recall 3 x 1.5mill being a popular maximum. None of us wanted to pay as much as we did, but I remember almost nobody wanting us to walk away from him (except Colin), even though there were clear signs that we should have.
I think we'd regret paying what Stone's market value is as much as we regret Bouma's contract now.
Yeah, I recall 3 x 1.5mill being a popular maximum. None of us wanted to pay as much as we did, but I remember almost nobody wanting us to walk away from him (except Colin), even though there were clear signs that we should have.
I think we'd regret paying what Stone's market value is as much as we regret Bouma's contract now. - Saskabush
I actually think Stone will bounce back and have great year now that He has a season behind him after that knee injury/surgery. I'd take the gamble.
As for Bouma, I think they need to treat him like he's on a two way and tell him right now that's how he's coming into next season. If he doesn't legit make the team, he gets sent down. I'm hopeful being in a contract year and the very real possibility that his NHL career is over will inspire him.
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