Ohh, I get it. Ha.

Well, Frolik is better than a lot of the crap on the lower half of the Hawk roster right now. There's no debating that.
- John Jaeckel

I remember the PK when Frolik was here. Those were the days, my friend, those were the days. When bottom 6 guys can be effective like that on the PK, the rest of the championship level game is a possibility.

Ahhh.....good morning. See it was spirited last night......

--Watching that Sens game I had a flash back to the good ole leader of the Church of Keith, Mr. Pat Foley himself, ripping Karlsson a few years back when he was in contention to beat out Keith for the Norris, and how it shouldn't be awarded to an offensive guy who doesn't play against the opponents top guys....my goodness. This along with the mysterious case of Duncan Keith's missing Vapor skates late in 2010 are exactly what torpedos the intellect of so many Blackhawks fans. I would take Erik Karlsson today over Keith and I wouldn't think twice about it. That kid is a game changer in every sense of the word, and does things offensively that pea shooter couldn't do if he was playing against AHL players. Can anyone name a few times Keith joined the rush or rushed the puck up to set up a play? Because I sure as hell can't.

--My point is this: We can sit here and debate trading Seabrook, or AA or Crawford or Hammer or Hossa or Toews or Panarin or whoever else but trading any of them leaves you with a gaping hole in return. Who is ready to become a #2center on this team? NIck Schmaltz? Who on D is ready to play top 4 minutes? The overhyped Michael Kempny? Another veteran retread because we as fans can't distance ourselves from the Johnny Oduya of 2015 vs the present one or Brian Campbell?

IMO....you have ONE untouchable on this roster and that is 88.....he's your generational player and you aren't trading him for Kovy and a #1 pick who isn't a lock to be a Mcdavid type player. sorry....Unless Kane goes off the deep end off the ice OR wants to end his career in Buffalo, he isn't leaving.

Point is this organization has nobody to blame but themselves. We have media who routinely shelter executives and pass the blame on a Gm who has been long gone OR a HOF coach who apparently dictates to a GM who to get, which is so laughable if true that Q can run over Stan in that regard if you think about it.

They lost 2 young players who WOULD have filled holes left by a departure of a Seabrook or somebody else in Saad/Leddy. They did find Panarin but what is his AAV going to look like in 2 years if he's already at 6 and proven he's only about 1 thing....and that's putting up huge points to get his $$$$.

To me the blame lies squarely on the "pissed off" management bunkered away at 1901 w Madison. THey have zero cap flexibility, aging core, and an X factor of something gone sour in that room......blame it on the message from coaching not being delivered, blame it new faces, but I contend it's something much worse.

Please dont' come at me with how entitled I sound or how grateful I should be for the past 10 years.....I am. However, I don't market the "One goal" express and portray an image of supposedly cup or bust, that's what THE team DOES....so now it's time to see how serious they are and IF they ARE willing to make a bold/hockey smart move that gets them right back to where they were in June of 2015, and the hell with if the court of public opinion doesnt' like it.....because a fine tune of ditching Marcus Kruger, signing more aging retreads to cap friendly dollars, firing MIke Kitchen and Ted Dent isn't what I envisioned when this season ended.

Fair points and that may be precisely what the team is thinking.

He is godawful however on faceoffs—on a team where everyone else with the exception of Marcus Kruger at 49% or so the last couple of years is godawful, and that includes Kero despite a lop-sided number in 4 games in round one—until legitimately proven otherwise in a much larger sample size.

I know, I know, faceoffs don't matter.Except they do . . . and the Hawks' piss poor performance, getting worse every year, has hurt them in key areas of the game. ESPECIALLY PK and o-zone possession on any line not centered by a guy named Toews. At times, my Mom might as well be out there taking draws instead of Anisimov.. And you lose the draw, the other team gains possession and you can have Maurice Richard and Bobby Hull on his wings, they're just defenders at that point.

So, no, AA is not a guy you can easily part with or replace. But . . . he is not giving you everything you want from a 2C either, unless you can somehow otherwise upgrade C/faceoffs and "shelter" him.
- John Jaeckel

Dave Bolland was atrocious at them as well and was still able to flip the ice.

Its 6 of one or a half donzen of another at this point. At 4.5 million and 20 goals you can probably live with that depending on what else is on the roster. But I don't disagree someone else to eat the garbage draws is desirable.

To get a guy who can win some draws, put up 50 and do the work is probs in the 6 million range. That's probably doable too but I don't know where that player comes from. The Panarin for Couturier straight up plus unloading Kooga for cap relief gives them money to throw at Thornton and now they're two big nasty guys down the middle (with some cap space) and Q can get cute where he plays Toews. Those two moves alone would vastly improve the team.

Either way, I think there are enough organizations looking to shake stuff up that, if they are smart enough, they can check quite a few boxes with out a whole lot of pain and at a minimum be better at scoring goals and a wash on the blue line.

The big thing to me is they need to have the audacity to get what they need rather than trying to "win" every trade.

I remember the PK when Frolik was here. Those were the days, my friend, those were the days. When bottom 6 guys can be effective like that on the PK, the rest of the championship level game is a possibility.
- 35Tony0

I used to call that PK line the Fruger line. They were dominant on the PK.

Dave Bolland was atrocious at them as well and was still able to flip the ice.

Its 6 of one or a half donzen of another at this point. At 4.5 million and 20 goals you can probably live with that depending on what else is on the roster. But I don't disagree someone else to eat the garbage draws is desirable.

To get a guy who can win some draws, put up 50 and do the work is probs in the 6 million range. That's probably doable too but I don't know where that player comes from. The Panarin for Couturier straight up plus unloading Kooga for cap relief gives them money to throw at Thornton and now they're two big nasty guys down the middle (with some cap space) and Q can get cute where he plays Toews. Those two moves alone would vastly improve the team.

Either way, I think there are enough organizations looking to shake stuff up that, if they are smart enough, they can check quite a few boxes with out a whole lot of pain and at a minimum be better at scoring goals and a wash on the blue line.

The big thing to me is they need to have the audacity to get what they need rather than trying to "win" every trade.
- fattybeef

As I just posted in my short narrative....


I'm curious to see if they have the stones to make the bigger move or what I fear they will do is make a smaller, predictable move and hope more rest and time will what ails this team........I don't see that as a logical viewpoint, but I am not Stan Bowman.

As for Jumbo....the guy wants 3 years minimum. I dont' see him taking less to come here vs San Jose.......San Jose is arguably in just as good a spot to win NOW as the Hawks. Plus, 19 would have to burry the hatchet with Jumbo and his cheap shot that really ramped up concussion problems for Toews.......and you can't skate Jumbo with Kane because they both need the puck to be effective......you'd have to slide 88 up with Toews and then hope Jumbo and Panarin mix unless you are moving up 72 as well, and then you are hoping Jumbo can max out the crap that is left which Toews couldn't do.

I'll be shocked if they make any bold moves.....I see this more of a patch and go and the blind faith that rookies who bombed in the playoffs will be better,Kempny will be a legit top 4 guy, and 2/19 recover from what ails them.......god help us all.

Ahhh.....good morning. See it was spirited last night......

--Watching that Sens game I had a flash back to the good ole leader of the Church of Keith, Mr. Pat Foley himself, ripping Karlsson a few years back when he was in contention to beat out Keith for the Norris, and how it shouldn't be awarded to an offensive guy who doesn't play against the opponents top guys....my goodness. This along with the mysterious case of Duncan Keith's missing Vapor skates late in 2010 are exactly what torpedos the intellect of so many Blackhawks fans. I would take Erik Karlsson today over Keith and I wouldn't think twice about it. That kid is a game changer in every sense of the word, and does things offensively that pea shooter couldn't do if he was playing against AHL players. Can anyone name a few times Keith joined the rush or rushed the puck up to set up a play? Because I sure as hell can't.

--My point is this: We can sit here and debate trading Seabrook, or AA or Crawford or Hammer or Hossa or Toews or Panarin or whoever else but trading any of them leaves you with a gaping hole in return. Who is ready to become a #2center on this team? NIck Schmaltz? Who on D is ready to play top 4 minutes? The overhyped Michael Kempny? Another veteran retread because we as fans can't distance ourselves from the Johnny Oduya of 2015 vs the present one or Brian Campbell?

IMO....you have ONE untouchable on this roster and that is 88.....he's your generational player and you aren't trading him for Kovy and a #1 pick who isn't a lock to be a Mcdavid type player. sorry....Unless Kane goes off the deep end off the ice OR wants to end his career in Buffalo, he isn't leaving.

Point is this organization has nobody to blame but themselves. We have media who routinely shelter executives and pass the blame on a Gm who has been long gone OR a HOF coach who apparently dictates to a GM who to get, which is so laughable if true that Q can run over Stan in that regard if you think about it.

They lost 2 young players who WOULD have filled holes left by a departure of a Seabrook or somebody else in Saad/Leddy. They did find Panarin but what is his AAV going to look like in 2 years if he's already at 6 and proven he's only about 1 thing....and that's putting up huge points to get his $$$$.

To me the blame lies squarely on the "pissed off" management bunkered away at 1901 w Madison. THey have zero cap flexibility, aging core, and an X factor of something gone sour in that room......blame it on the message from coaching not being delivered, blame it new faces, but I contend it's something much worse.

Please dont' come at me with how entitled I sound or how grateful I should be for the past 10 years.....I am. However, I don't market the "One goal" express and portray an image of supposedly cup or bust, that's what THE team DOES....so now it's time to see how serious they are and IF they ARE willing to make a bold/hockey smart move that gets them right back to where they were in June of 2015, and the hell with if the court of public opinion doesnt' like it.....because a fine tune of ditching Marcus Kruger, signing more aging retreads to cap friendly dollars, firing MIke Kitchen and Ted Dent isn't what I envisioned when this season ended.
- SteveRain

Best post on here since the Round 1 debacle
Says it all
Thx Steve!

Nope
- riozzo

Forgot the red font

I was being VERY facetious

Actually, the forwards paid to scored contributed only 2 goals (I doubt that Rasmussen is being paid to score) - and only one of those was when a game (and the series) was on the line.

Seabrook seems to be the symbol of all of the long-term, high-cap-hit no move/trade contracts that have been executed. It's a bit scary to think about how much of this team's future may be determined by players' agents advising their clients whether to waive or not, or how to fill out the list of approved/rejected trade partners.
- StLBravesFan

Yup. 100%. Toews looked worn, Kane was in the shadows, and this is the second time (counting last year's loss to STL) that 72 disappeared and was lackluster.

Can't blame Seabrook and his contract on everything. He has been playing babysitter for two seasons now, aside from the stints with Campbell. Solid defenseman and a great passer.

Rain with another gem -- bunkered away at 1901 w Madison.

Aivis Kalniņš @A_Kalnins
49m

#BREAKING SKA St.Petersburg and David Rundblad have come to terms to a one year deal.
- jt19

Do the Hawks still own his rights? Maybe he can come back one day.

Forgot the red font

I was being VERY facetious
- 93Joe

Aah, went all Darth Kane on me...

Yup. 100%. Toews looked worn, Kane was in the shadows, and this is the second time (counting last year's loss to STL) that 72 disappeared and was lackluster.

Can't blame Seabrook and his contract on everything. He has been playing babysitter for two seasons now, aside from the stints with Campbell. Solid defenseman and a great passer.
- 93Joe

I don't think it's a matter of blaming Seabrook. The Rd. 1 exits have fault to spread over everyone. I do think it is a matter of looking at the core and the top heavy roster of a Cap strapped team and trying to figure out looking forward who is the best piece to move. Arguably, it would be Crawford or Seabrook in a lot of peoples minds. Crow balked at okaying a deal, and with no alternative Goalie in house you would think a move with him is off the boards now. That leaves Seabs as the whipping boy on the trading post.

If you take a hard look at the core 2/4/7/19/50/72/81/88, losing any of them leaves a hole. You have 4/72/88 who have not showed a degradation of skills over the last few seasons, regardless of whether it is because of age, injury or both. 88 is probably a lifer, 4 & 72 have only 2 years left on deals and then are UFA's. 2/7/19/81 have shown declining skills, for whatever reason, and are all signed to long term deals, or deals where cap re-capture make it prohibitive to move them(2/81). 19, regardless of whether he is worth his contract, is still a 1C in this league and has worth to the franchise beyond his on ice performance. I think in the franchises eyes, he is not replaceable.

Take all this into account and you have limited who can/should/will actually be traded out of the core. Reality is that they are not going to "win" any trade involving these pieces, especially considering the fact that other clubs know what position they are in and are not going to be lining up to help.

As I just posted in my short narrative....


I'm curious to see if they have the stones to make the bigger move or what I fear they will do is make a smaller, predictable move and hope more rest and time will what ails this team........I don't see that as a logical viewpoint, but I am not Stan Bowman.

As for Jumbo....the guy wants 3 years minimum. I dont' see him taking less to come here vs San Jose.......San Jose is arguably in just as good a spot to win NOW as the Hawks. Plus, 19 would have to burry the hatchet with Jumbo and his cheap shot that really ramped up concussion problems for Toews.......and you can't skate Jumbo with Kane because they both need the puck to be effective......you'd have to slide 88 up with Toews and then hope Jumbo and Panarin mix unless you are moving up 72 as well, and then you are hoping Jumbo can max out the crap that is left which Toews couldn't do.

I'll be shocked if they make any bold moves.....I see this more of a patch and go and the blind faith that rookies who bombed in the playoffs will be better,Kempny will be a legit top 4 guy, and 2/19 recover from what ails them.......god help us all.
- SteveRain

If so, the rebuild has begun and Bowman will be gone a year from now.

There are two issues: perception and reality.

Perception sucks, the brand and share of media has nose-dived.

Reality is the team is now regular season-engineered, too old (or too young, no in between) and slow and top heavy and either Bowman or the FO as a whole did not have the chips or the guts to fix it.

Did they recognize it? Yes, they did, as far back as at least February 2016. And they have been QUIETLY (Boedker, Duchene, etc) trying to fix it since, while extolling the great virtues of Schmaltz, Motte, Forsling, etc.

I believe they THOUGHT, based on the regular season, they would go deep in the playoffs. And the sweep HURT, because it embarrassed them, showed them how wrong they were, and how much there is to do to get back into contention.

Newsflash, as good as Nashville has become, the Hawks weren't getting past St. Louis (which played MUCH better after Yeo replaced Hitch) or probably Minnesota, who skated circles around the Hawks in the regular season for the most part. Probably not Edmonton either.

I have heard the Hawks are going to do everything they can to try to make some bigger moves—that is the expectation from McD to Bowman. If they don't, it's because they can't. Either as an organization or because Bowman himself can't get it done.

And he will BE the scapegoat. Doesn't mean Q won't go, too. But the "problem" begins and ends with the salary cap and recent personnel decisions. Not to mention Bowman over-hyping the prospects.

Bowman won't get away with blaming Q.

Leaking out (and it WAS deliberately leaked) that you were "after (Tomas Jurco) for six weeks" was a monumentally stupid move. In a smaller, but more obvious level, it's a lot like turning around and giving AA a huge extension a week after you trade Saad for him— with a full year left on his current deal. Bowman seems to try to create immediate validation around his moves that comes back and haunts him later.

Probably not but I'd reserve judgement on that until he's at least 35. He doesn't make $7 million a year either.

And, no, he is far from being "the problem" with this team.
- John Jaeckel

agree.

Keith, Seabrook and Hjarlmarsson make a combined 16.5mil.

There is nothing wrong with that top 3 in salary or skill

What happened to all the Toews is the new Yzerman talk?

That guy only got the first of his 3 cups after 16 SEASONS of no-quit hockey, the last when his knee was shot.

Toews got his 3 right away and now he's fading fast.

What's it going to take to get the real #19 back? I hope LTIR so they can stop the bleeding for next season. No Toews, no cups.

As I just posted in my short narrative....


I'm curious to see if they have the stones to make the bigger move or what I fear they will do is make a smaller, predictable move and hope more rest and time will what ails this team........I don't see that as a logical viewpoint, but I am not Stan Bowman.

As for Jumbo....the guy wants 3 years minimum. I dont' see him taking less to come here vs San Jose.......San Jose is arguably in just as good a spot to win NOW as the Hawks. Plus, 19 would have to burry the hatchet with Jumbo and his cheap shot that really ramped up concussion problems for Toews.......and you can't skate Jumbo with Kane because they both need the puck to be effective......you'd have to slide 88 up with Toews and then hope Jumbo and Panarin mix unless you are moving up 72 as well, and then you are hoping Jumbo can max out the crap that is left which Toews couldn't do.

I'll be shocked if they make any bold moves.....I see this more of a patch and go and the blind faith that rookies who bombed in the playoffs will be better,Kempny will be a legit top 4 guy, and 2/19 recover from what ails them.......god help us all.
- SteveRain

Joe may want to go back to SJ

Doesn't mean SJ wants him back. There has to be a two way street

And there's no "hatchet" to bury between he and Toews. They've player together after that.

Best post on here since the Round 1 debacle
Says it all
Thx Steve!
- Colbyboy

Thanks Buddy!

Rain with another gem -- bunkered away at 1901 w Madison.
- 6628

Joe may want to go back to SJ

Doesn't mean SJ wants him back. There has to be a two way street

And there's no "hatchet" to bury between he and Toews. They've player together after that.
- PatShart

Well, one would think if Jumbo was going to give anyone a cheap AAV it would be the team he's been on for a long period of time.....so if SJ doesn't want him who's to say a team like the rangers or another team as close to the hawks wouldn't go after Jumbo? The Hawks aren't some mythical destination for UFAs....yes they may get a discount from older guys, but so would other markets....

And I disagree on him and 19...playing in the Olympics for a few weeks or WC is a helluva lot different then playing with a guy for 7+ months. I'm not saying Toews wouldn't put it in the past, but I also think it's naïve to think it won't be run past him IF it's even in the realm of possibility (Jumbo to Chi)

Well, one would think if Jumbo was going to give anyone a cheap AAV it would be the team he's been on for a long period of time.....so if SJ doesn't want him who's to say a team like the rangers or another team as close to the hawks wouldn't go after Jumbo? The Hawks aren't some mythical destination for UFAs....yes they may get a discount from older guys, but so would other markets....

And I disagree on him and 19...playing in the Olympics for a few weeks or WC is a helluva lot different then playing with a guy for 7+ months. I'm not saying Toews wouldn't put it in the past, but I also think it's naïve to think it won't be run past him IF it's even in the realm of possibility (Jumbo to Chi)
- SteveRain

I agree, Jumbo has said he loves the NOCAL life. We need to speculate about other over the hill slow afoot Stanbo possibilities.

Sharp played with a much bigger edge than Panarin ever did or will. He was tough to play against

Panarin played hard....for his bonus.
- PatShart

I think some of that was Subban making his life difficult. Contrary to popular belief he is quite the defender.

Well, one would think if Jumbo was going to give anyone a cheap AAV it would be the team he's been on for a long period of time.....so if SJ doesn't want him who's to say a team like the rangers or another team as close to the hawks wouldn't go after Jumbo? The Hawks aren't some mythical destination for UFAs....yes they may get a discount from older guys, but so would other markets....

And I disagree on him and 19...playing in the Olympics for a few weeks or WC is a helluva lot different then playing with a guy for 7+ months. I'm not saying Toews wouldn't put it in the past, but I also think it's naïve to think it won't be run past him IF it's even in the realm of possibility (Jumbo to Chi)
- SteveRain

The hawks are more of a destination versus the dysfunction some want to make them out to be.

They treat their players well. Q is well respected/liked by players which matters more than being liked on a message board.

Packed house.

A lot of national love.

And contrary to belief, with their core they will always have a chance to win.

And playing a game in the ice and off as a competitor versus a team mate is a different thing. Thornton is a good guy, even if he bullied little Johnny. I wish Toews would show some balls now and then and not just eat his greens

I agree, Jumbo has said he loves the NOCAL life. We need to speculate about other over the hill slow afoot Stanbo possibilities.
- riozzo

Wasn't Brad Richards over the hill and slow too? Handzus?

If so, the rebuild has begun and Bowman will be gone a year from now.

There are two issues: perception and reality.

Perception sucks, the brand and share of media has nose-dived.

Reality is the team is now regular season-engineered, too old (or too young, no in between) and slow and top heavy and either Bowman or the FO as a whole did not have the chips or the guts to fix it.

Did they recognize it? Yes, they did, as far back as at least February 2016. And they have been QUIETLY (Boedker, Duchene, etc) trying to fix it since, while extolling the great virtues of Schmaltz, Motte, Forsling, etc.

I believe they THOUGHT, based on the regular season, they would go deep in the playoffs. And the sweep HURT, because it embarrassed them, showed them how wrong they were, and how much there is to do to get back into contention.

Newsflash, as good as Nashville has become, the Hawks weren't getting past St. Louis (which played MUCH better after Yeo replaced Hitch) or probably Minnesota, who skated circles around the Hawks in the regular season for the most part. Probably not Edmonton either.

I have heard the Hawks are going to do everything they can to try to make some bigger moves—that is the expectation from McD to Bowman. If they don't, it's because they can't. Either as an organization or because Bowman himself can't get it done.

And he will BE the scapegoat. Doesn't mean Q won't go, too. But the "problem" begins and ends with the salary cap and recent personnel decisions. Not to mention Bowman over-hyping the prospects.

Bowman won't get away with blaming Q.

Leaking out (and it WAS deliberately leaked) that you were "after (Tomas Jurco) for six weeks" was a monumentally stupid move. In a smaller, but more obvious level, it's a lot like turning around and giving AA a huge extension a week after you trade Saad for him— with a full year left on his current deal. Bowman seems to try to create immediate validation around his moves that comes back and haunts him later.
- John Jaeckel

I 100% agree and nobody in the media is a bigger McDonough puppet then Uncle Barry. A guy who has known McDonough since back when Barry was slinging beers at clark and Addison and covering the Cubs and routinely kissing Maddux's @ss.

is it surprising to anyone that Rozner has routinely ripped Talon or Quenneville non stop at any moment and really directed the success to the Bowmans or McDonough while negating Dale's and Joel's involvement? No and the reason is Barry is still pissed that Trent Yawney is gone and that Q poached Savard's role.....where the fact is Senior Bowman realized Savard wasn'the guy early in 2008-09 and was looking for a reason to can him.....a slow start in November and savard is gone.

Bowman couldn't control what Saad and Leddy wanted or what SHaw wanted after years of being in the shadows here....I get that. But I also see a guy who famously touted offer sheets don't scare me and then watched Wilson stick it to him with Hammer. I also see a guy who gives NMCs out for free and really doesn't get back a lesser term OR AAV AND extended 15 way too early as you fairly point out.

Again, they can call every GM in the league and go fishing but the truth is they have very little THAT THEY want to give up to get somebody....and now it's finally come to roost where to fix THIS they will HAVE to give up somebody outside of a marcus Kruger to not only fix this, but to get cap compliant and that's why I contend they may leak they try to do this (Duchene) or that, but I have little faith they will....because if you look at it......they trade hammer, who steps in? they trade AA who fills that void? They trade 7, who plays top minutes?

in a week or so when the 5 game clark cup is over they will announce they hired the Steel coach to babysit Rockford and hope he can max out lower tiered prospects to become viable assets for Bowman to plop in OR deal away.....

I keep looking at capfriendly and it's truly a train wreck. ...and Bowman has nobody but to blame but himself, regardless of what Barry Rozner preaches to the sheep on the score.

As I just posted in my short narrative....


I'm curious to see if they have the stones to make the bigger move or what I fear they will do is make a smaller, predictable move and hope more rest and time will what ails this team........I don't see that as a logical viewpoint, but I am not Stan Bowman.

As for Jumbo....the guy wants 3 years minimum. I dont' see him taking less to come here vs San Jose.......San Jose is arguably in just as good a spot to win NOW as the Hawks. Plus, 19 would have to burry the hatchet with Jumbo and his cheap shot that really ramped up concussion problems for Toews.......and you can't skate Jumbo with Kane because they both need the puck to be effective......you'd have to slide 88 up with Toews and then hope Jumbo and Panarin mix unless you are moving up 72 as well, and then you are hoping Jumbo can max out the crap that is left which Toews couldn't do.

I'll be shocked if they make any bold moves.....I see this more of a patch and go and the blind faith that rookies who bombed in the playoffs will be better,Kempny will be a legit top 4 guy, and 2/19 recover from what ails them.......god help us all.
- SteveRain

See I think you play Thornton with 88 and make 88 the shooter on that line. With the way he has been ripping shots off the last two seasons, I don't see that as a problem.