JJ. Does if ek is correct about sakic moving upstairs help or hurt the hawks chance she of getting duchene?

panarin would fetch a great return. anisimov could bring back some nice pieces as well. i really like the thought of duchene in a hawks sweater. not sure how i feel about kovalchuk or jumbo joe. feel the hawks need to get younger and faster. unless either of those two came at a very very generous and affordable price, not sure how the hawks can make those two names fit with their current cap issues.

would hate to see this name go..but Hjalmarsson could bring a great return as well. Hawks wouldn't be nearly as good on the back end, but the return could be interesting.

I think that's a sound approach, though let's face it, there are lots of ways it can play out.

Assume 81, 2, 4, 7, 88, 19, 50 are still around. Throw everything else into the hopper and see what you can come up with the goal of a two-line punch, size/speed/nasty in the bottom 6, decent backup goalie.

Doesn't mean you have to give up ALL those other assets either (you probably don't).

I think it's doable but it really does require Bowman to take a different approach than he has.

The paradigm has been "with this core, we can backfill with rookies and league minimum vets"—more so and more so as the cap has gotten tighter. And that pressure only gets worse this summer. So in all likelihood, the result would not be any better, or it might be worse.

It's been a safe and kind of smug approach by the organization and it just bit them in the ass about two years before they thought it would. So now they have to scramble a bit. But that list of potential trade chips, IMO, gives them all kinds of trade possibilities and potential cap room with those trades. But they need to be creative and aggressive and not double down on the prospects and younguns (especially). Keep the good ones you can, but give up the good ones you have to in order to improve the team this summer.
- John Jaeckel

Yep. And just because you/I say "these are the guys I'd move" - it doesn't mean all of then

They were stacked in 2010, so disregard that team

The following two cups though, the makeup was let Kane carry his line and load up Toews to get the most out of him. The last few years they gave Kane more help, but with Hossa taking a step back and losing Saad, Toews' play dropped dramatically. With teams already focus on trying to eliminate Kane from games, if/when they can do that the Hawks are average

Kane usually always can figure out a way to score (whether it's him or his linemates). I'd go back to refiguring the roster towards that.

It took PITT getting Kessel to revamp them. Something along that line but that can carry more of the mail for Toews will help.

Then fill in the bottom 5 (Hossa will be there) with guys that are hard to play against versus Kero/Hino/Motte/Rassmussen who are all kinda "meh". Nice players, but don't make anything difficult for the opposition

I don't agree.
- John Jaeckel

Do you agree that we need to shed between 3-5 mil off next years salaries. that is pretty much a fact. Nick, Hartman, Panik, kempny are not going to bring you players that are better then who they are and make less. all the other propsects are going to bring next to nothing at this point. 57 makes $850 so who is he going to bring back that makes less and is better? Kruger makes way to much so he will not return anything. AA makes about what he should for a AVG 2nd line center. So you could trade hin for a younger player that makes less but not sure how that makes your top 6 better. Pan would return someone good but who does he return that makes less then 6 mil and makes you better next year? Duchene makes the same.

I don't understand how trading cost contolled young players is going to get you value and cap savings. So we are down to Kruger who returns nothing, AA who might return a young 3rd line center (gving up a 2nd line) So you do get savings but you are not really better.

It's because he can't technically sign until after July 01.
- walleyeb1

I have seen that one - thanks!

I don't disagree just see that as more of a fine tune move that this team would make then making a bolder move that essentially weakens them UNLESS they get a return that makes sense.

You also hear the rumblings of the Chicago Steel coach going to Rockford which tells me Bowman wants more a guy who can take lesser talent and mold them into something serviceable. This organization seems to be in love with the Steel type of players lately.

In a perfect world I like your previous deals but I think Panarin stays to play along with Jumbo and you reunite the wonder the twins to get Toews to max out his offensive ability.

To John's point, Hawks were supposedly IN on Kovalchuk when he landed in NJ years ago....would they form an all Russian line with 15/72 and then move Kane up to play with 19 and say 14 or 38? How they make that money work is beyond me.

Bottom line....they are right up against the cap as of today with overages. I agree on 14 where I think his numbers are inflated due to who Q pits him against, so I think anything over 2.0 AAV and you deal him....

I would also trade 7 if they could find a taker but the fact is they wont.......

IMO, they are truly stuck in a s--t storm that Bowman has created giving out NMCs like they are candy. He has truly given himself zero flexibility to dig himself out of a financial disaster and regression in his top bread winners not producing due to injuries, age, whatever.....and to Rick's point......look at the drafts lately.....not one of these guys has virtually been a corner stone for this team to build around LT and be a replacement.....some of that has to do where you draft and that's all well and fine but at the very least these guys should be bottom 6 replacments and decent NHL players.......

Time will tell but I think any possibility of a trade has to be considered by this committee internally, but I think most of us will vastly disappointed in what will transpire.
- SteveRain

Yup, its a pickle for sure, but one they can certainly get out of as long as they aren't afraid to make a few unpopular moves.

Kane.
His return could fill multiple holes as he's one of the best players in the league, currently at the height of his prime.
Why would his name come up? Off ice issues and him netting a massive return

Edit:
Kane+ to NJD Kovalchuck plus the #1 pick ++
THATS a massive splash and a #1 pick should be NHL ready
- Slofire94

AT NOT POINT would I trade Kaner for an aging Russian mercenary like Kovy. Is Kovy good? Damn right, but give me a guy proven to do it like Kane. As the main piece? Kovy? Hell no. The franchise is finished if a trade like this is made and the #1 overall pick won't be delivering a McDavid/Matthews type talent.

JJ. Does if ek is correct about sakic moving upstairs help or hurt the hawks chance she of getting duchene?
- Abadseed

Hard to say

For those ready to jettison AA so readily, I'm curious to know where else you'll find a 20/20 player who doesn't seem to care about stats, plays both sides of the puck well and is willing to do the dirty work so the other guys can run all over the ice?

For what he does and for what would come back 4.5 is certainly market value. With his upside in the O zone and minutes wise he can at least cover for Toews if he doesn't start the year or picks something up.

Toews + 37 year old Thornton is a terribly risky way to go into the season. Even if AA starts at wing (solves LW problem), they still have options just in case. With out that coverage we may see a repeat of Patrick Kane playing center should anything unfortunate happen.

Anisimov and Forsling for Kovy and sign Ilya for 2 years x $3mil. Sign Panik 2yrs x $2mil (tel him he can produce 2 more 20 goal years while going for a Cup and cash in as a UFA after that). Sign Kempny 2 yrs x $1mil (same logic), sign Budaj $2years x 1mil, expose Kruger to Vegas (pray McPhee bites), sign $1mil depth Dman with snarl,, Give either Oduya and/or Campbell a 1 year dirt cheap contract

Kovy-Toews-Kane
Panarin-Schmaltz-Hossa
Hartman-Kero- Panik
Tootoo, Moose, Fortin, Motte, Debribcat and whoever fills out the bottom line

Keith-Hammer
Kempny-Seabs
Oduya/Campbell/Gustafson/tough depth guy

Crawford
Budaj

Anisimov and Forsling for Kovy and sign Ilya for 2 years x $3mil. Sign Panik 2yrs x $2mil (tel him he can produce 2 more 20 goal years while going for a Cup and cash in as a UFA after that). Sign Kempny 2 yrs x $1mil (same logic), sign Budaj $2years x 1mil, expose Kruger to Vegas (pray McPhee bites), sign $1mil depth Dman with snarl,, Give either Oduya and/or Campbell a 1 year dirt cheap contract

Kovy-Toews-Kane
Panarin-Schmaltz-Hossa
Hartman-Kero- Panik
Tootoo, Moose, Fortin, Motte, Debribcat and whoever fills out the bottom line

Keith-Hammer
Kempny-Seabs
Oduya/Campbell/Gustafson/tough depth guy

Crawford
Budaj
- EnzoD

And no mention of TVR - I like it.

Do you agree that we need to shed between 3-5 mil off next years salaries. that is pretty much a fact. Nick, Hartman, Panik, kempny are not going to bring you players that are better then who they are and make less. all the other propsects are going to bring next to nothing at this point. 57 makes $850 so who is he going to bring back that makes less and is better? Kruger makes way to much so he will not return anything. AA makes about what he should for a AVG 2nd line center. So you could trade hin for a younger player that makes less but not sure how that makes your top 6 better. Pan would return someone good but who does he return that makes less then 6 mil and makes you better next year? Duchene makes the same.

I don't understand how trading cost contolled young players is going to get you value and cap savings. So we are down to Kruger who returns nothing, AA who might return a young 3rd line center (gving up a 2nd line) So you do get savings but you are not really better.
- kmw4631

Lots of opinion there.

Highly debatable what AA's value is, and his value is different depending on which team he's on, their cap situation, etc.

Younger cost-controlled guys can be added to a deal to get someone else to swallow a larger contract. See Bickell, B. and teravaninen, T.

You are dealing in alot of absolutes and scenarios taken out of real world context.

As for the $3-5 million needed next year, you have to see where the dust settles after some deals are done.

What does Panarin bring back? Add TVR into a Kruger deal, what does that bring back?

Add DeBrincat into a deal invovling Anisimov, maybe you upgrade 2C and/or get a nice young cost-controlled lower line player back.

I can go on all day. You can say none of these deals are possible. How do you know? You don't.

But these are facts (pretty much):

2 consecutive first round outs precisely because of the mentality that you can't make any significant deals due to the cap and you have to clear money to retain not fully proven players.

AT NOT POINT would I trade Kaner for an aging Russian mercenary like Kovy. Is Kovy good? Damn right, but give me a guy proven to do it like Kane. As the main piece? Kovy? Hell no. The franchise is finished if a trade like this is made and the #1 overall pick won't be delivering a McDavid/Matthews type talent.
- kwolf68

Kane is the greatest American Born NHL player of all time (maybe Matthews will get there). The trade Kane garbage will simply not go away....crazy. Guy has been producing at an Art Ross pace for three straight seasons, face of the franchise, female fans love him, and as a fan of the sport he is arguably the most entertaining player in the league (outside of McJesus now). The likelihood of 19 or 88 being traded are about as good as the odds Vegas wins the Cup next year....

And no mention of TVR - I like it.
- riozzo

Lol toss TVR as a sweetener for Kovy or on the 3rd pair. I figured I'd forget someone...

For those ready to jettison AA so readily, I'm curious to know where else you'll find a 20/20 player who doesn't seem to care about stats, plays both sides of the puck well and is willing to do the dirty work so the other guys can run all over the ice?

For what he does and for what would come back 4.5 is certainly market value. With his upside in the O zone and minutes wise he can at least cover for Toews if he doesn't start the year or picks something up.

Toews + 37 year old Thornton is a terribly risky way to go into the season. Even if AA starts at wing (solves LW problem), they still have options just in case. With out that coverage we may see a repeat of Patrick Kane playing center should anything unfortunate happen.
- fattybeef

Fair points and that may be precisely what the team is thinking.

He is godawful however on faceoffs—on a team where everyone else with the exception of Marcus Kruger at 49% or so the last couple of years is godawful, and that includes Kero despite a lop-sided number in 4 games in round one—until legitimately proven otherwise in a much larger sample size.

I know, I know, faceoffs don't matter.Except they do . . . and the Hawks' piss poor performance, getting worse every year, has hurt them in key areas of the game. ESPECIALLY PK and o-zone possession on any line not centered by a guy named Toews. At times, my Mom might as well be out there taking draws instead of Anisimov.. And you lose the draw, the other team gains possession and you can have Maurice Richard and Bobby Hull on his wings, they're just defenders at that point.

So, no, AA is not a guy you can easily part with or replace. But . . . he is not giving you everything you want from a 2C either, unless you can somehow otherwise upgrade C/faceoffs and "shelter" him.

Kane is the greatest American Born NHL player of all time (maybe Matthews will get there). The trade Kane garbage will simply not go away....crazy. Guy has been producing at an Art Ross pace for three straight seasons, face of the franchise, female fans love him, and as a fan of the sport he is arguably the most entertaining player in the league (outside of McJesus now). The likelihood of 19 or 88 being traded are about as good as the odds Vegas wins the Cup next year....
- EnzoD

I think big changes need to happen, but moving #88 isn't one of them.

Lol toss TVR as a sweetener for Kovy or on the 3rd pair. I figured I'd forget someone...
- EnzoD

I liked it better when he was forgotten.

Fair points and that may be precisely what the team is thinking.

He is godawful however on faceoffs—on a team where everyone else with the exception of Marcus Kruger at 49% or so the last couple of years is godawful, and that includes Kero despite a lop-sided number in 4 games in round one—until legitimately proven otherwise in a much larger sample size.

I know, I know, faceoffs don't matter.Except they do . . . and the Hawks' piss poor performance, getting worse every year, has hurt them in key areas of the game. ESPECIALLY PK and o-zone possession on any line not centered by a guy named Toews. At times, my Mom might as well be out there taking draws instead of Anisimov.. And you lose the draw, the other team gains possession and you can have Maurice Richard and Bobby Hull on his wings, they're just defenders at that point.

So, no, AA is not a guy you can easily part with or replace. But . . . he is not giving you everything you want from a 2C either, unless you can somehow otherwise upgrade C/faceoffs and "shelter" him.
- John Jaeckel

Also on the PP, loose a draw at the start, a Campbell patented back pass, a few aborted attempts to enter the zone, and they are down to 1 minute. The cup teams would dominate the FO on special teams. Throw in 4 corner keep away and an icing on the PP for good measure.

Get Vegas to take Kruger - frees up 3.083m

Move Panarin to NYI for Hamonic - frees up 2.6m

Move Anisimov, Forsling, Schmaltz in a deal to get Duchene

Move rights to Panik

Resign Oduya, Kempny

D looks like
Keith-Seab
Hjarl-Oduya
Kempny-Hamonic

Try to get Kovalchuk, Oshie, or someone else for Toews

Thornton/different retread for Kane C

Sign one of Iginla, Doan, Sharp for bottom six role. Minimum minutes, veteran player, tough to play against. And by signing them to a Campbell type deal 1yr 1.5m Max

I agree there are some options but if CRAW, Keith, Hammer, Seabs, kane.hossa,teows, Pan are all on the roster next year. that's 8 players taking up 55 mil. We had 3.5 Mil of overage this year so if the cap is 75. that means we have 71.5 or 16.5 Mil for 14 players. So that works out to 1.17 per player. Lets say we trade Kruger, AA, Forsling and Hartman for Duchene. We probably lose TVR to EXP and if something like the above happens we move Panik for a draft pick or a player on a ELC. my point is maybe you could add Duchene but you would lose Kruger, AA, Panik and Hartman to make the math work. Does that make us better? is he better then all those guys (yes) but he has AVG 23 goals per year the last 4 years and you gave up 3 guys that put up 19,22,22.

My point is we are so tight vs the cap that its going to be hard to take back any players salary.

[quote=PatShart]Get Vegas to take Kruger - frees up 3.083m

one thing people forget is trading kruger does not free up 3 mil. it actually only free's up 2-2.4 mil. I use 1 mil per roster spot to make the math easier but with $700k the league min I guess you could argue it free's up 2.38. if all the bottom 10 guys on the roster make league min.

call it a "hunch" but I am betting they move Kruger and Aminisov and that is all.....I'm not saying I disagree with moving other parts previously mentioned but they pimp Panarin around hard and realize he's the next clone to "sharp" as they have (sniper/goal scorer).
- SteveRain

Totally agree.....I still don't like the idea of moving Panarin. He's what this team needs.... youth, speed and enthusiasm. We can't be blaming the playoff debacle on just him. 19 and 88 did nothing for their 10.5.... and our horrific PP scheme is not on him.

Spitballing:

Panarin and Hjalmarsson to Toronto for Kadri and Gardiner

Spitballing:

Panarin and Hjalmarsson to Toronto for Kadri and Gardiner
- walleyeb1

Whatever they do, they need to find a LW for Toews. Priority #1. Maybe move AA to wing. Bump Kero up.

72 19 14
15 67 88

If they keep 72, they need to move him away from Kane. Spread the wealth on the top two lines.

dp sorry