I am sure you would say Lundqvist is a first ballot, yet he threw up a dazzling .867 last year, a .902 a few years earlier and a .908 before that leading his teams to playoff spankings.

Patrick Roy had back to back sub .900 playoffs - does he suck?

My point is goalies will have a down series - just a fact. The better goalies will save a game in a series when the other EIGHTEEN players can't do crap. Cro does that.

Would you take Devnick with an all world D in front of him over Cro who has a 3 wheeled shopping cart on one side and one of the three blind mice on the other...

Point is Cro is very good goalie. Best in the league - nope, better than given credit for - YES.
- riozzo

You are the definition of a Crawford apologist. Corey is the only goalie in hockey who doesn't have to fight through traffic, doesn't have to track pucks behind the net, doesn't have to find pucks in the crease, doesn't have to interupt slow crossing pucks, doesn't have to protect the top of his net, doesn't have to come out and play angles etc etc. Crawford is a Momentum Killer.

Crawford never out-duels the other goalie. Didn't in the Nashville Series. Didn't in the St. Loius Series before that. I'd be happy if he just matched or even was close which he was not. Remember another year we could have won the Cup. Against LA Crawford blew 2 2 goal leads in Game 7.

Pointing out the poor play of other goalies doesn't help your position. Crawford sucked bad but so did these other guys is not an argument

As the Hawks got swept by Nashville the analysis has been totally negative. What is forgotten is the Hawks actually started games strongly only to have Crawford crush the Bench by allowing first goals. I know I was tracking it. You don't want to listen to out of Chicago hockey people discuss Crawford's failings then for heaven's sake at least listen to CRAWFORD about CRAWFORD. In that Series CRAWFORD said I'm not making the saves for the boys that are needed. END OF STORY. That on top of this he takes 6M out of the Cap - Awful.

[quote=Z3Hawk]As I've said before if you want to free up 6M tell Crawford he either agrees to a trade or he spends the year in street-clothes. Of course this would require cojones which Bowwoman may not have
- bigfly46[/quote

Total sarcasm on my point... I'm not a Crawford apologist.... not even close.... couldn't agree with you more

bigfly46 - I know we think similarly about Crawford.

Except the part where it wasn't really a trade - Darling was a UFA who went to the highest bidder that would give him a starting job. Since CC is refusing to be traded, the Hawks had zero leverage to make any other outcome happen.

Best to get something for losing him than nothing at all.
- Return of the Roar

Sure the Hawks have leverage against Crawford. You show Crawford where he will sit in streetclothes until he agrees. Crawford doesn't run the team. Can't move you? Can't play you either.

You are the definition of a Crawford apologist. Corey is the only goalie in hockey who doesn't have to fight through traffic, doesn't have to track pucks behind the net, doesn't have to find pucks in the crease, doesn't have to interupt slow crossing pucks, doesn't have to protect the top of his net, doesn't have to come out and play angles etc etc. Crawford is a Momentum Killer.

Crawford never out-duels the other goalie. Didn't in the Nashville Series. Didn't in the St. Loius Series before that. I'd be happy if he just matched or even was close which he was not. Remember another year we could have won the Cup. Against LA Crawford blew 2 2 goal leads in Game 7.

Pointing out the poor play of other goalies doesn't help your position. Crawford sucked bad but so did these other guys is not an argument

As the Hawks got swept by Nashville the analysis has been totally negative. What is forgotten is the Hawks actually started games strongly only to have Crawford crush the Bench by allowing first goals. I know I was tracking it. You don't want to listen to out of Chicago hockey people discuss Crawford's failings then for heaven's sake at least listen to CRAWFORD about CRAWFORD. In that Series CRAWFORD said I'm not making the saves for the boys that are needed. END OF STORY. That on top of this he takes 6M out of the Cap - Awful.
- Z3Hawk

Please explain what you mean by "outdueling other goalies". Is it simply making more saves? WInning the series? How do you determine the difference between a goalie win and a team win?

Did he outduel Bishop is '15? What about Rask, Quick and Howard in '13? Maybe one or two of his 214 ref season wins could be classified as such.

Sure the Hawks have leverage against Crawford. You show Crawford where he will sit in streetclothes until he agrees. Crawford doesn't run the team. Can't move you? Can't play you either.
- Z3Hawk

So you hamstring the rest of the team by putting a lesser goalie on the ice (per our current roster) AND you can't improve the team due to cap hit...?

I'm watching the USA/Denmark matchup and I can say that Schmaltz is having a real solid outing. He's playing well on the boards and making some nice finesse moves too. He's playing RW and seems to have some real chemistry with Brock Nelson.

Sure the Hawks have leverage against Crawford. You show Crawford where he will sit in streetclothes until he agrees. Crawford doesn't run the team. Can't move you? Can't play you either.
- Z3Hawk

Is that the type of organization the Hawks want to be? Do as we say or you don't play? How does that impact signing free agents or even re-signing our own players? That is complete old school (Dollar Bill) thinking that won't work in today's environment.

I get the "trade Crawford and go with Darling" approach. Like I said, it's not my #1 choice but I could have lived with it. Assuming Stan could trade Crawford, what makes you think he could have done so without taking salary back? Even if Stan takes back $2 million in a deal and signs Darling for $4 million the overall cap hit remains the same. Also, I would highly doubt that $2 million would be for a high quality player.

I'm watching the USA/Denmark matchup and I can say that Schmaltz is having a real solid outing. He's playing well on the boards and making some nice finesse moves too. He's playing RW and seems to have some real chemistry with Brock Nelson.
- DarthKane

That's great! Happy to hear he's doing well.

In some not so great news, looks like Toews is wearing a knee brace. He was featured in a Chicago school's tweet recently.

Arthroscopic knee surgery? Can't recall seeing that type of brace otherwise.

bigfly46 - I know we think similarly about Crawford.
- Z3Hawk

That's great! Happy to hear he's doing well.

In some not so great news, looks like Toews is wearing a knee brace. He was featured in a Chicago school's tweet recently.

Arthroscopic knee surgery? Can't recall seeing that type of brace otherwise.


- pdx2ord

That sounds better to me than his hockey skills are rapidly declining at age 28-29.

That sounds better to me than his hockey skills are rapidly declining at age 28-29.
- HawkintheD

Does it really matter? He's still crippling the team with his $10.5 million cap hit.

Awesome move in the France/Finland player of the game ceremony. Bellemare was selected for France but he wouldn't go up to collect his award, he kept urging their Goalie (Hardy) to go up. Eventually Hardy went up and they announced him as France's player of the game. Great move by Bellemare.

You are the definition of a Crawford apologist. Corey is the only goalie in hockey who doesn't have to fight through traffic, doesn't have to track pucks behind the net, doesn't have to find pucks in the crease, doesn't have to interupt slow crossing pucks, doesn't have to protect the top of his net, doesn't have to come out and play angles etc etc. Crawford is a Momentum Killer.

Crawford never out-duels the other goalie. Didn't in the Nashville Series. Didn't in the St. Loius Series before that. I'd be happy if he just matched or even was close which he was not. Remember another year we could have won the Cup. Against LA Crawford blew 2 2 goal leads in Game 7.

Pointing out the poor play of other goalies doesn't help your position. Crawford sucked bad but so did these other guys is not an argument

As the Hawks got swept by Nashville the analysis has been totally negative. What is forgotten is the Hawks actually started games strongly only to have Crawford crush the Bench by allowing first goals. I know I was tracking it. You don't want to listen to out of Chicago hockey people discuss Crawford's failings then for heaven's sake at least listen to CRAWFORD about CRAWFORD. In that Series CRAWFORD said I'm not making the saves for the boys that are needed. END OF STORY. That on top of this he takes 6M out of the Cap - Awful.
- Z3Hawk

Maybe not this year or last year but he did in the '13, '14, '15 playoffs.

You cite LA but seem to forget the only reason they made it to that round was because Crawford stole at least two games in each of the first two series vs StL and MN.

Also...3 goals scored this year in the playoffs. That won't win you many series and you certainly aren't winning any if the team skating in front of the goalie is so mentally weak that they fold anytime anyone goes up on them by a goal.

Corey is only PAID like a Hall of Famer. The only way Corey gets into the Hall of Fame is by walking up and buying a ticket. One thing that is absolutely freakin' hilarious about the Crawford apologists is they now feel enough time has past to admit he was clearly ATROCIOUS in that horrible Phoenix Series. These same apologists would not admit it when it happened. Oh and here's a shout-out to Eddie O who was so clueless back then he stated Crawford played great - out of town hockey people asked if he was high. To which he replied "high on hair products fellas". While I'm at it to NOT hear Mike Kitchen ever again say we gotta get the puck deep or some other mind numbing hockeyism will be a welcome relief.
- Z3Hawk

you are one helluva HOF crawford denier despite the facts....so carry on...but do try to get past 2012 that was 5 years ago...i know its hard to give up on another's tough stretch or failure...

Maybe not this year or last year but he did in the '13, '14, '15 playoffs.

You cite LA but seem to forget the only reason they made it to that round was because Crawford stole at least two games in each of the first two series vs StL and MN.

Also...3 goals scored this year in the playoffs. That won't win you many series and you certainly aren't winning any if the team skating in front of the goalie is so mentally weak that they fold anytime anyone goes up on them by a goal.
- HawkintheD

we can try hawkin D...but this guy is in complete alternative universe...he is the type of guy that would insist it was the germans who bombed pearl harbor...

you are one helluva HOF crawford denier despite the facts....so carry on...but do try to get past 2012 that was 5 years ago...i know its hard to give up on another's tough stretch or failure...
- bogiedoc

Let's not get carried away with the HOF for Crawford just yet.

Of all of the goalies that have played the majority of their careers since 1950 - 67 years, including all of the post-1967 expansion goalies - only 19 have been voted in:

Sawchuck, Rainer, Hall, Brower, Plante, Lumley, Worsley, Dryden, Parent, Cheever, Giacomin, Esposito, Tretiak, Smith, Fuhr, Roy, Balfour, Hasek, Vachon

Only five of those played mostly after the WHA merger in 1979-80.

Certainly Brodeur will be. Maybe Thomas.

But who playing today? Price, Quick, Rinne, Lundqvist, Bobrowsky - Crawford? I don't think any have had the success AND the longevity to be assured of the vote.

Crawford had three excellent years - 13/14/15 - and not many goalies have had 2 Cups - but I think his last two seasons have been adequate - last season less so - and I would not guess that he will wind up in the Hall. He's certainly top-10 or better amongst today's goalies - and would be able to lead a team to another Cup or two - and maybe, with a couple more Cups to his name....

Let's not get carried away with the HOF for Crawford just yet.

Of all of the goalies that have played the majority of their careers since 1950 - 67 years, including all of the post-1967 expansion goalies - only 19 have been voted in:

Sawchuck, Rainer, Hall, Brower, Plante, Lumley, Worsley, Dryden, Parent, Cheever, Giacomin, Esposito, Tretiak, Smith, Fuhr, Roy, Balfour, Hasek, Vachon

Only five of those played mostly after the WHA merger in 1979-80.

Certainly Brodeur will be. Maybe Thomas.

But who playing today? Price, Quick, Rinne, Lundqvist, Bobrowsky - Crawford? I don't think any have had the success AND the longevity to be assured of the vote.

Crawford had three excellent years - 13/14/15 - and not many goalies have had 2 Cups - but I think his last two seasons have been adequate - last season less so - and I would not guess that he will wind up in the Hall. He's certainly top-10 or better amongst today's goalies - and would be able to lead a team to another Cup or two - and maybe, with a couple more Cups to his name....
- StLBravesFan

Won't speak for Bogie but I don't think he was annointing Crawford a HOF'er...more so that the other guy has a place in the HOF for Crow haters/deniers, if I had to guess.

Something tells me we're gonna regret this trade
- fvineze

I'm not sure we had any other choice.

Corey is only PAID like a Hall of Famer. The only way Corey gets into the Hall of Fame is by walking up and buying a ticket. One thing that is absolutely freakin' hilarious about the Crawford apologists is they now feel enough time has past to admit he was clearly ATROCIOUS in that horrible Phoenix Series. These same apologists would not admit it when it happened. Oh and here's a shout-out to Eddie O who was so clueless back then he stated Crawford played great - out of town hockey people asked if he was high. To which he replied "high on hair products fellas". While I'm at it to NOT hear Mike Kitchen ever again say we gotta get the puck deep or some other mind numbing hockeyism will be a welcome relief.
- Z3Hawk

It's too early to be drinking!

Let's not get carried away with the HOF for Crawford just yet.

Of all of the goalies that have played the majority of their careers since 1950 - 67 years, including all of the post-1967 expansion goalies - only 19 have been voted in:

Sawchuck, Rainer, Hall, Brower, Plante, Lumley, Worsley, Dryden, Parent, Cheever, Giacomin, Esposito, Tretiak, Smith, Fuhr, Roy, Balfour, Hasek, Vachon

Only five of those played mostly after the WHA merger in 1979-80.

Certainly Brodeur will be. Maybe Thomas.

But who playing today? Price, Quick, Rinne, Lundqvist, Bobrowsky - Crawford? I don't think any have had the success AND the longevity to be assured of the vote.

Crawford had three excellent years - 13/14/15 - and not many goalies have had 2 Cups - but I think his last two seasons have been adequate - last season less so - and I would not guess that he will wind up in the Hall. He's certainly top-10 or better amongst today's goalies - and would be able to lead a team to another Cup or two - and maybe, with a couple more Cups to his name....
- StLBravesFan

sage...not clear but I meant the guy waging war on craw is a HOF Craw Denier..

maybe not HOF yet for craw i would agree...but while Giacamon, espo, vachon had long careers they all had limited playoff success

Won't speak for Bogie but I don't think he was annointing Crawford a HOF'er...more so that the other guy has a place in the HOF for Crow haters/deniers, if I had to guess.
- HawkintheD

Won't speak for Bogie but I don't think he was annointing Crawford a HOF'er...more so that the other guy has a place in the HOF for Crow haters/deniers, if I had to guess.
- HawkintheD

Not aimed at Bogie - just throwing my $.02 in there.

I've been even going watching highlights of guys toward the bottom of our roster. Does anyone know why jurco struggled so much. In virtually all of his goals in Detroit, he's in front of the net or within about 10 ft of it. You would think that kind of work would last longer.

Video of that nice sequence by Schmaltz, here. I do think he has great playmaking instincts - definitely made Toews line better for that 2-month period. Would like to see how he develops over the next year.

https://twitter.com/ToddC...status/861245161099210752

Where was it reported that Crawford refused to agree to a trade. Anyone have the link?