It's a collaboration

89 is on call now
Broads is later
Sabres365 is last

But really I think it's Mark Jakubowski
- Stripes77

i think you just did this so that if/when this antipin deal goes to hell you can single me out




Edit: in all seriousness i think you're right, AGM probably has the best handle on the stuff that TM was planning on doing like the antipin deal. Pegula specifically mentioned Jeff Crisp as the guy doing the draft stuff (or just amateur scouting in general)

Shattenkirk averaged more TOI per game in WSH than Alzner
- sbroads24

By 25 seconds in the regular season, which I'm guessing was bc of PP time
In the playoffs, Alzner is averaging over 2min more icetime
And Alzner is on the Caps 2nd pair
Shattenkirk is on the 3rd pair w Orpik

Again, this is what you see when you watch the games
I'm really not trying to be a d!ck with that,
But u seem to just only be looking at paper & chosing stats that for your narrative and dismissing everything else

Not big on Corsi or Fenwick, but Shatt's are 53.7 and 54.1 respectively. One thing that would concern me is that for a real good possession guy that is supposed to be a good puck mover, why would he have 57% offensive zone starts versus 43 defensive starts? Actually, this year it was more like 60/40.
- adambuffalo

I think that's the benefit of having a Peitrangelo/Boumeester pair ahead of you.

Gives Shattenkirk the off opportunities

I like the idea that I think was credited to one of the guys that appears on GR (I think it was Macindo from Down Goes Brown): draft order should be the inverse of all of the points earned after a team was eliminated from the playoffs.
- Slump Buster

Maybe a better solution is to cap the length of player contracts to 5 years and create more player movement at the higher end. I failed to mention the other big players in the anti tank nation are the gms and owners of good teams who have had success, crying at the idea of a bad team getting better through the top picks. The lottery is dumb IMO and not much can change that.

By 25 seconds in the regular season, which I'm guessing was bc of PP time
In the playoffs, Alzner is averaging over 2min more icetime
And Alzner is on the Caps 2nd pair
Shattenkirk is on the 3rd pair w Orpik

Again, this is what you see when you watch the games
I'm really not trying to be a d!ck with that,
But u seem to just only be looking at paper & chosing stats that for your narrative and dismissing everything else
- jdfitz77

You realize how hypocritical this is considering you keep bringing up +/-. The **1** stat that might not favor Shattenkirk

Not big on Corsi or Fenwick, but Shatt's are 53.7 and 54.1 respectively. One thing that would concern me is that for a real good possession guy that is supposed to be a good puck mover, why would he have 57% offensive zone starts versus 43 defensive starts? Actually, this year it was more like 60/40.
- adambuffalo

Because he struggles in his own end consistently

If we needed a PP specialist to help us,
He'd make a lot more sense

But we already have the a really good PP
And even if Risto got hurt, I still think the PP would be successful

Truth is given their projected prices we should be pursuing neither defencemen. I just like shattenkirk more than alzner because he can produce 5v5 despite defensive short comings.

Alzner neither produces nor is that good defensively. That kind of defensive d-man is museum bound. Something ill show my kids 20 years from now "im not even kidding we used to call this defence" and the slideshow presentation will be zoomed in on bogosian slamming himself into the end boards.

You realize how hypocritical this is considering you keep bringing up +/-. The **1** stat that might not favor Shattenkirk
- sbroads24

I'm bringing up much more than +/-

But please...
explain to me how he's good defensively when his +/- is significantly worse than EVERYONE else he plays defense with over the last 2 years

Then...
tell me if his possession numbers are aided in that he gets A LOT more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts

You conveniently left that out

Truth is given their projected prices we should be pursuing neither defencemen. I just like shattenkirk more than alzner because he can produce 5v5 despite defensive short comings.

Alzner neither produces nor is that good defensively. That kind of defensive d-man is museum bound. Something ill show my kids 20 years from now "im not even kidding we used to call this defence" and the slideshow presentation will be zoomed in on bogosian slamming himself into the end boards.
- Sabresfan-365

I can be talked out of Alzner
I can NOT be talked into Shattenkirk

What are Shattenkirk's 5v5 points like?
I asked Sbroads to post them, but either he didn't or I missed it

Let another team get stuck with Shattenkirk for 7 mill a season, we don't need that.
- SABRES 89

^this

I can be talked out of Alzner
I can NOT be talked into Shattenkirk

What are Shattenkirk's 5v5 points like?
I asked Sbroads to post them, but either he didn't or I missed it
- jdfitz77

Shattenkirk had 23 5v5 points, tied with trouba, schultz and gardiner.

I'm bringing up much more than +/-

But please...
explain to me how he's good defensively when his +/- is significantly worse than EVERYONE else he plays defense with over the last 2 years

Then...
tell me if his possession numbers are aided in that he gets A LOT more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts

You conveniently left that out
- jdfitz77

This is going no where.

I didn't say he was great defensively, I said what he is good at, we severely lack, which is puck moving and scoring.

Again, you want to use one stat to prove your point, but I am not allowed to do the same.

Agree to disagree

This is going no where.

I didn't say he was great defensively, I said what he is good at, we severely lack, which is puck moving and scoring.

Again, you want to use one stat to prove your point, but I am not allowed to do the same.

Agree to disagree
- sbroads24

This is all moot as the only thing thats changed regarding shattenkirk is NYR might get him for less term and money, thats about it.

Shattenkirk had 23 5v5 points, tied with trouba, schultz and gardiner.
- Sabresfan-365

15th among D men in points per 60 with over 400 min

15th among D men in points per 60 with over 400 min
- sbroads24

There was a point in time when i thought shattenkirk was better than pietrangelo.

its why eye test and context are still very important in todays nhl.

By 25 seconds in the regular season, which I'm guessing was bc of PP time
In the playoffs, Alzner is averaging over 2min more icetime
And Alzner is on the Caps 2nd pair
Shattenkirk is on the 3rd pair w Orpik

Again, this is what you see when you watch the games
I'm really not trying to be a d!ck with that,
But u seem to just only be looking at paper & chosing stats that for your narrative and dismissing everything else
- jdfitz77

I would take Alzner at 5 mill over Shattenkirk at 7 mill any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I hope Rangers or Montreal overpay for Shattenkirk.

Over his career he has more PP points than even strength points.

I like the idea that I think was credited to one of the guys that appears on GR (I think it was Macindo from Down Goes Brown): draft order should be the inverse of all of the points earned after a team was eliminated from the playoffs.
- Slump Buster

That's still a bad idea. It ends the trade deadline because the teams who know that they will not be reaching the playoffs will still not want to let go of their good UFAs due to wanting the best chance at putting together wins after their mathematical elimination.

The only fair way to end tanking IMO is to make the lottery equal for all non playoff teams. Take out all incentive to lose. The goal until the very last game of the season should be to win, and if you don't make the playoffs, even by 1 point, you should still end up with the same odds as the last place team. All 15 non playoff teams should get a ball in the lottery, first one picked gets the first pick overall, then keep picking for the rest of the order until there is only 1 ball remaining, that team will then take the 15th pick.

Shattenkirk had 23 5v5 points, tied with trouba, schultz and gardiner.
- Sabresfan-365

So I'd assume that would help us 5v5...
but when his total points overall drop significantly
Bc he'd be on PP2 here
Could we even remotely justify 6mil or more?

That's why I say he isn't the right "fit" for us
If our PP was 20th... then it would make much more sense to me

Is there anywhere to even keep score on USA/Italy?

This is going no where.

I didn't say he was great defensively, I said what he is good at, we severely lack, which is puck moving and scoring.

Again, you want to use one stat to prove your point, but I am not allowed to do the same.

Agree to disagree
- sbroads24

That's not true
I'm admitting to him being good offensively
You won't admit to him being a defensive liability!

And u did say he was an "awesome player"
Which he's not
He isn't even "awesome" offensively
That's reserved for guys like Karlsson & Burns

gerbe eating donuts lmao
- chilliard77

Hey I was sticking up for you

And (frank) Donuts

So I'd assume that would help us 5v5...
but when his total points overall drop significantly
Bc he'd be on PP2 here
Could we even remotely justify 6mil or more?

That's why I say he isn't the right "fit" for us
If our PP was 20th... then it would make much more sense to me
- jdfitz77

not really thats where id agree that its not really our best option at a long term fix, not at that cap hit.

That's still a bad idea. It ends the trade deadline because the teams who know that they will not be reaching the playoffs will still not want to let go of their good UFAs due to wanting the best chance at putting together wins after their mathematical elimination.

The only fair way to end tanking IMO is to make the lottery equal for all non playoff teams. Take out all incentive to lose. The goal until the very last game of the season should be to win, and if you don't make the playoffs, even by 1 point, you should still end up with the same odds as the last place team. All 15 non playoff teams should get a ball in the lottery, first one picked gets the first pick overall, then keep picking for the rest of the order until there is only 1 ball remaining, that team will then take the 15th pick.
- sskkoo1

Man that would really be must watch TV. Would really suck to see a team that finished just out of the playoffs get top pick especially in years where a guy like McDavid available.

Bills decline Watkins 5th year option.