You know, everyone wanted more cups after 2010. So they go and do what they had to do to get two more. Everyone knew the band would have to get paid, so suck it up. Have to take the good with the bad. Don't potshot the guy now after he accomplished what all wanted, knowing all the time a situation like this was inevitable. It's like the day after a blow out party. Right now is the hangover. Most of us have been there, it takes time.
- 6628

It ain't over yet, either. You know what team is as top heavy in cap payments as the Hawks? The one that is about to win their 2nd straight Stanley Cup. The guys at the top of their team are playing up to their pay grade, though, and the entire team is playing fast, aggressive hockey.

I'm guessing their fan base sounded a heckuva lot like ours does now a couple short years ago.

http://www.spotrac.com/nh.../pittsburgh-penguins/cap/

I can't give Stan that much credit when he was not the true architect of this "core." A large portion of the cup-winning teams had key players brought in during the Tallon regime. And while I compliment Stan for maintaining the roster for as long as he did, I don't trust him any longer to manage this team.

His failures as a GM have directly shaved years off of this team's "dynasty" run. There is no forgiving overpaying Toews/Kane, the Seabrook contract, and the failure to sign Saad. No smart GM would have made those deals with such high costs and long terms. The management that always win in sports are those who sell high and retool/reload.

- falseprophet93

You mean like the Penguins? Had a look at their top heavy cap lately? Their fans were probably saying the same things a couple years ago and then a fresh voice entered the room.

http://www.spotrac.com/nh.../pittsburgh-penguins/cap/

Anyone else beginning to think the Penguins actually have a decent shot at repeating?
- walleyeb1

I'd say it's fairly in the bag. Who is beating them?

100% this. It wouldn't be long before fans would be like, "$4mil for a player that takes dumb penalties and doesn't score 20 goals? Trade him!"

Hartman has that ability and can score more. This was his first full season. Let him develop into that guy.
- CanOCorn

By the time he develops, they will have to let him go anyway as they cannot afford to pay him being every year against the cap ceiling with few aging players.

7 nhl playoff games = 7 goals...

let me know when the hawks find a kid like this...

- bogiedoc

It has a lot to do with who is centering his line.

Guentzel is for real.

A legit top line talent on any team in the league, regardless of who his center is.

His center just so happens to be the best player in the league.

Right now the Pens have 2 top lines, a 2nd line, and a 3rd line.

Same forwards as last year(which were already the best in the NHL top to bottom) only swap Eric Fehr with Jake Guentzel(major upgrade).

Best team in the league WITHOUT their #1D. That's INSANE.

The way i see it is this......if a team is gonna overtake the Hawks as the top dogs in the league, as the better "dynasty", etc.....at least its going to be a team that plays the game the right way. Exciting, fast, skilled, high caliber sports entertainment. They're a great team that deserves it. So be it. I have no problem rooting for them, especially against any of the remaining Western teams.
- SimpleJack

And yet less than two years ago where were they? Groping around .500 trying to capture lost glory.

And then a coaching change happened and everything changed.

They're in the same "cap hell" as the Hawks and are forced to rely on young guys to fill roles. From top to bottom they're playing better than the Hawks, and it ain't about talent level.

Guentzel is for real.

A legit top line talent on any team in the league, regardless of who his center is.

His center just so happens to be the best player in the league.

Right now the Pens have 2 top lines, a 2nd line, and a 3rd line.

Same forwards as last year(which were already the best in the NHL top to bottom) only swap Eric Fehr with Jake Guentzel(major upgrade).

Best team in the league WITHOUT their #1D. That's INSANE.

The way i see it is this......if a team is gonna overtake the Hawks as the top dogs in the league, as the better "dynasty", etc.....at least its going to be a team that plays the game the right way. Exciting, fast, skilled, high caliber sports entertainment. They're a great team that deserves it. So be it. I have no problem rooting for them, especially against any of the remaining Western teams.
- SimpleJack

This 100%. Been routing for Tampa and Penguins as alternative to Blackhawks for their exciting style of play (Tampa not so much this year). Pens are fun to watch, good coach, GM and exciting play even when they had long season.
And their core played more playoff games than Hawks so no excuse for our team as their core started in 08 long playoff runs.

And yet less than two years ago where were they? Groping around .500 trying to capture lost glory.

And then a coaching change happened and everything changed.

They're in the same "cap hell" as the Hawks and are forced to rely on young guys to fill roles. From top to bottom they're playing better than the Hawks, and it ain't about talent level.
- RollingPuck

Not just coaching change, it started with new GM first, who was not afraid to make changes when things did not work.
- Let Niskanen go
- Let Orpik go
- Signed Kessel and made the other side retain part of the money
- Got Daley for Scudery who was useless and taking cap space
-etc
What would Stan do in his place?
1. Sign Oprik to 7 years 7 mln contract and slap NMC
2. Keep Scudery (our version of Rozi) and keep paying him above minimum wage
3. Pass on Kessel as no cap, etc you get an idea
4. Sign Runblad for a couple of years a couple of millions.
5. Keep the coach from 2009 as they won the cup and give him large contract.
You get an idea where Pens would be.

Not just coaching change, it started with new GM first, who was not afraid to make changes when things did not work.

- vshun

He came on in June of 2014, fired Bylsma, hired Johnston, who he had to fire just over a year later because he was a disaster. Obviously not King Midas.

Point is, the Pens were buried for a while and floundering until Sullivan came in.

http://bleacherreport.com...h-penguins-2015-offseason

Not just coaching change, it started with new GM first, who was not afraid to make changes when things did not work.
- Let Niskanen go
- Let Orpik go
- Signed Kessel and made the other side retain part of the money
- Got Daley for Scudery who was useless and taking cap space
-etc
What would Stan do in his place?
1. Sign Oprik to 7 years 7 mln contract and slap NMC
2. Keep Scudery (our version of Rozi) and keep paying him above minimum wage
3. Pass on Kessel as no cap, etc you get an idea
4. Sign Runblad for a couple of years a couple of millions.
5. Keep the coach from 2009 as they won the cup and give him large contract.
You get an idea where Pens would be.
- vshun

Apples to oranges. While the Pens up until last year were underachieving with their Core, the Hawks hung two more banners.

The Hawks have come to perhaps a similar crossroads.

Not just coaching change, it started with new GM first, who was not afraid to make changes when things did not work.
- Let Niskanen go
- Let Orpik go
- Signed Kessel and made the other side retain part of the money
- Got Daley for Scudery who was useless and taking cap space
-etc
What would Stan do in his place?
1. Sign Oprik to 7 years 7 mln contract and slap NMC
2. Keep Scudery (our version of Rozi) and keep paying him above minimum wage
3. Pass on Kessel as no cap, etc you get an idea
4. Sign Runblad for a couple of years a couple of millions.
5. Keep the coach from 2009 as they won the cup and give him large contract.
You get an idea where Pens would be.
- vshun

Stan had the chance to do some of those and DID NOT - not sure how your hatred for Stan makes a point.

Not just coaching change, it started with new GM first, who was not afraid to make changes when things did not work.
- Let Niskanen go
- Let Orpik go
- Signed Kessel and made the other side retain part of the money
- Got Daley for Scudery who was useless and taking cap space
-etc
What would Stan do in his place?
1. Sign Oprik to 7 years 7 mln contract and slap NMC
2. Keep Scudery (our version of Rozi) and keep paying him above minimum wage
3. Pass on Kessel as no cap, etc you get an idea
4. Sign Runblad for a couple of years a couple of millions.
5. Keep the coach from 2009 as they won the cup and give him large contract.
You get an idea where Pens would be.
- vshun

Right on the money here , Rutherford is the best GM in the league. Hawks are in bad poistion because they paid too much for past performances and giving out contracts that were way to long
.Now I know that helped win some cups (Hossa, Keith) but once the rules changed they should have stopped with the long term NMC . I think were store for a few years of what we have had the last couple but with more mediocre regular seasons. Just don'tsee how we can improve because the contracts I believe can't be moved. Trading Hammer $4 million really won't do much because who replaces him . Same AA, Breadman ect.

I understand, but what I was talking about was trading players for marketing purposes.
Maybe Stan understands that trading a high-priced core is needed for the overall good of the organization, but I wonder if McD doesn't allow that.
- powerenforcer

If Rocky allows that then he is a fool. Never, and I mean never, ever put Marketing ahead of Operations.

That's what happened on the North side for many years under McD. What did it get? Nothing. Well, it did get something: Beanie Babies, a full house in an old park, mostly daytime ball and Sammy Sosa. But wins? In the most critical time? Nope.

Now, what did Tommy Boy do in 2011? Hire the best baseball Ops guy out there. Kept Clown Kenney on the Biz side, and let baseball operations "do their job". Five+ years later, we are the defending World Series Champions, can easily repeat, and have one of the best run and deepest minor league systems in all of sports. Oh, and the biz folks are revamping the old North side ball yard. Bamm!

If Rocky is allowing an intermix of biz and ops, he is asking for long term trouble.

We have to face facts. The 'Hawks high level of suck 10-15 years ago, in combo with drafting and trades built this core by the two GM regimes pre-Stan, is the #1 reason cup banners in the rafters doubled in count the past several years. McD has little to do with that.

I shutter to think what could be happening if McD nixes a move by Stan cuz of marketing optics. That not only smacks of narcissistic behaviour, it smacks of lack of marketing buzz.

Anyone else beginning to think the Penguins actually have a decent shot at repeating?
- walleyeb1

Said earlier that as much as I'd rather they not so the Hawks retain the bragging rights, maybe the Penguins winning a third SC in the post-salary cap era would get the Hawks' seemingly MIA competitive juices flowing again.

Shouldn't take something like that to give the whole team - including the coaching staff - motivation to do whatever it takes to win, but it may just be the ticket.

For those in the know, who comes up to back up CC now that Scotty Darling is gone?

Totally. Holtby and Bobrovsky are in danger of developing reputations of being great regular season goalies and playoff busts.
- DarthKane

Sounds like the Caps in general

Would love to have a guy like Brouwer back. Can place anywhere in the top 9 and will always be around the blue paint. The size and nasty is a bonus also.

Panarin for Rask

Or

Panarin for Horvat
- DarthKane

That's an interesting one. I'm biased because he plays two ways and is a C/W. Solid player top to bottom.

There are ways to make hard decisions such as flipping CC, Seabs, Krug. Even if you get little in return the idea is to clear cap space. Flushing 16m is a good start. Then you can trade players with more value such as Panarin, Anisimov etc. for players that are hungrier, younger. I know some of these players have limited NMC but like I said there are ways to make the player feel that the organisation has moved on (looking at you CC) and yeah maybe not be the cleanest approach but there are methods in the industry to rebuild and to get rid of players.

Once completed you can retool with extra money, picks and potential trade returns. It's risky of course but the current situation will be repeating itself unless significant changes are done. Moving on from Krug, Soups, Schmaltz and Darling will change very little as far as fixing what is ailing this team.

My only concern is that FO may not have the capability, smarts or balls to make the decisions needed to have a significant impact....this includes changing FO and coaching personnel.

Thinking out of the box........Does Kane have a No Movement Contract ? And if he does, would he waive it to go home to Buffalo ? What pieces or draft picks does Buffalo have to offer ? McD won't approve a Toews trade, being Captain America and all, but they can get away with trading Kane due to his past issues as well as his needed salary relief. Yes he is our best player, but I am sure his best days are behind him and he will bring back the most assets along with cap space. Panarin is not Kane, but he is a younger cheaper version who is worth his salary for another 5 years.
I was hoping Crawford would waive his NMTC but that obviously isn't happening. Could trading Kane be the answer to fixing the Hawk's roster woes ? I think maybe so.

Thinking out of the box........Does Kane have a No Movement Contract ? And if he does, would he waive it to go home to Buffalo ? What pieces or draft picks does Buffalo have to offer ? McD won't approve a Toews trade, being Captain America and all, but they can get away with trading Kane due to his past issues as well as his needed salary relief. Yes he is our best player, but I am sure his best days are behind him and he will bring back the most assets along with cap space. Panarin is not Kane, but he is a younger cheaper version who is worth his salary for another 5 years.
I was hoping Crawford would waive his NMTC but that obviously isn't happening. Could trading Kane be the answer to fixing the Hawk's roster woes ? I think maybe so.
- Gary0301

Kane for Miller?

For those in the know, who comes up to back up CC now that Scotty Darling is gone?
- z1990z

It's fair to say they'll have to look outside the organization for a backup. I'd like to see Stan land Condon from Ottawa.

Kane for Miller?
- airmidget1

Stan would have to add his first round pick.

He came on in June of 2014, fired Bylsma, hired Johnston, who he had to fire just over a year later because he was a disaster. Obviously not King Midas.

Point is, the Pens were buried for a while and floundering until Sullivan came in.

http://bleacherreport.com...h-penguins-2015-offseason
- RollingPuck

Ok fng, doing well so far. Now tell everyone where Sullivan came from.

Been a rough month. First the Hawks get #*!&^ slapped out of the playoffs and now this what the hell was that draft from the Bears. Going to take up bowling.