I honesty think the problem with analytics is purely a branding problem. Hockey people are just scared about losing their jobs to nerds from MIT and Stanford.
- PhillySportsGuy

But even in more analytics savvy sports, those guys are rarely the GMs and organizational driving forces. Even in the NBA, how many Hinkie/Morey types are there really? Baseball? In hockey there are zero though. Sure you'll see guys who played ball for some good school and have connections and whatnot and have that bachelor's degree (often in something unrelated), but rarely are they the real statistical driving force, the brains of the operation. Usually those "nerds" with the advanced degrees and backgrounds are still the assistants to the other guys who are smart and open to it and more macro thinkers -- but smart enough to delegate.

Sounds like Radko
- Mononoke

If Gudas was playing with Ghost, I'd be pissed

Great news Bunnaman has signed his ATO!!! Loading up on the calvary the Phantoms are!!


- Just5

The most talent laden press box in the AHL

Yay us

But even in more analytics savvy sports, those guys are rarely the GMs and organizational driving forces. Even in the NBA, how many Hinkie/Morey types are there really? Baseball? In hockey there are zero though. Sure you'll see guys who played ball for some good school and have connections and whatnot and have that bachelor's degree (often in something unrelated), but rarely are they the real statistical driving force, the brains of the operation. Usually those "nerds" with the advanced degrees and backgrounds are still the assistants to the other guys who are smart and open to it and more macro thinkers -- but smart enough to delegate.
- Mononoke

Isn't the GM in Arizona an analytics guy?

I honesty think the problem with analytics is purely a branding problem. Hockey people are just scared about losing their jobs to nerds from MIT and Stanford.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well, that fight has already been fought in other sports and there is no more fight. If you don't have an analytics arm of your front office, regardless of sport, you're going to get dusted.

The problem comes from what to do with the data once you have it and what it means.

Sadly, I do see the gallows humor in a team built to go deep in the AHL playoffs -- with some of the best prospects in the league, tons of money spent in the offseason on the best AHL talent, a constant emphasis placed on how important these playoffs are to building a winning culture.....so important that they are flying in our other top prospects on ATOs to spend what was thought to be weeks watching and practice and gleaning something from them -- getting bounced, even swept, in the 1st round. Like they went ALL in.

it will all work out

Bourdons career was never taking off, good lord.
- rinaldo

Good to see you are taking a break from sniffing your dad's underwear

Isn't the GM in Arizona an analytics guy?
- BiggE

Not to be mean to Chayka, because he's about as close as it gets in the insular hockey world, but no, not in the sense that I meant. He is a young guy, with some background in stats and playing junior hockey, who worked for a data collection firm. When you say "analytics guy" -- I mean anyone can be that with some interest and experience and a connection. It's not a slight, they could use more guys like him and being a good GM goes a lot further than that. But hockey isn't exactly on the cutting edge with this stuff.....the Flyers chief analytics guy just did a 1 year online degree program before being hired. And who the hell knows if they even listen to him.

Chayka has a background in data collection and he is clearly open to and invested in it. But PSG was talking about the real nerds, I think. The guys who could go work for top financial firms or who have PhD in statistics and whatnot. Guys who could be at the forefront of other fields. You don't see Hinkie types in hockey.

Good to see you are taking a break from sniffing your dad's underwear
- KINGKENZO

he finally remembered the password for that account.

Not to be mean to Chayka, because he's about as close as it gets in the insular hockey world, but no, not in the sense that I meant. He is a young guy, with some background in stats and playing junior hockey, who worked for a data collection firm. When you say "analytics guy" -- I mean anyone can be that with some interest and experience and a connection. It's not a slight, they could use more guys like him and being a good GM goes a lot further than that. But hockey isn't exactly on the cutting edge with this stuff.....the Flyers chief analytics guy just did a 1 year online degree program before being hired. And who the hell knows if they even listen to him.

Chayka has a background in data collection and he is clearly open to and invested in it. But PSG was talking about the real nerds, I think. The guys who could go work for top financial firms or who have PhD in statistics and whatnot. Guys who could be at the forefront of other fields. You don't see Hinkie types in hockey.
- Mononoke

Those guys are expensive, for sure.

/works at one of those firms

Good to see you are taking a break from sniffing your dad's underwear
- KINGKENZO

it will all work out
- hockeylover

assuming this is a reference to Ghost's switch to LW

assuming this is a reference to Ghost's switch to LW
- YuenglingJagr

I only support the move if his switch is to the position of goalie.

Those guys are expensive, for sure.
- johndewar

That plays a part, I'm sure. If you want to buff up your stats department, you need to allocate more $$. But the idea is to also pluck guys who are interested in the sport (of course) while they're still relatively young. Hockey also isn't as big a sport financially, so that plays another part in the degree to which you can do this. But teams are so standoffish with the concept -- casual acceptance at best -- I don't think it matters.

But even in more analytics savvy sports, those guys are rarely the GMs and organizational driving forces. Even in the NBA, how many Hinkie/Morey types are there really? Baseball? In hockey there are zero though. Sure you'll see guys who played ball for some good school and have connections and whatnot and have that bachelor's degree (often in something unrelated), but rarely are they the real statistical driving force, the brains of the operation. Usually those "nerds" with the advanced degrees and backgrounds are still the assistants to the other guys who are smart and open to it and more macro thinkers -- but smart enough to delegate.
- Mononoke

11/30 GMs in the NBA played professionally (NBA or international)

22/30 GMs in the NHL played professionally. Many of the guys who never played professionally are long tenured members of the NHL family by simply being related to previous players/coaches/GMs.

My main point is that high level NHL jobs are only available for certain people. Their is a real lack of diversity and it's held them back from learning new ideas and advancing the game.

Isn't the GM in Arizona an analytics guy?
- BiggE

Yeah. He was just hired last offseason

11/30 GMs in the NBA played professionally (NBA or international)

22/30 GMs in the NHL played professionally. Many of the guys who never played professionally are long tenured members of the NHL family by simply being related to previous players/coaches/GMs.

My main point is that high level NHL jobs are only available for certain people. Their is a real lack of diversity and it's held them back from learning new ideas and advancing the game.
- PhillySportsGuy

I call BS.....all analytical signs point to more Cote

That plays a part, I'm sure. If you want to buff up your stats department, you need to allocate more $$. But the idea is to also pluck guys who are interested in the sport (of course) while they're still relatively young. Hockey also isn't as big a sport financially, so that plays another part in the degree to which you can do this. But teams are so standoffish with the concept -- casual acceptance at best -- I don't think it matters.
- Mononoke

Teams don't even have the assets to gather stats on the AHL or CHL! It's ridiculous. They're completely reliant on open source datasets. Maybe there is a company they pay for better CHL data, but other teams can get the same poop.

Not to be mean to Chayka, because he's about as close as it gets in the insular hockey world, but no, not in the sense that I meant. He is a young guy, with some background in stats and playing junior hockey, who worked for a data collection firm. When you say "analytics guy" -- I mean anyone can be that with some interest and experience and a connection. It's not a slight, they could use more guys like him and being a good GM goes a lot further than that. But hockey isn't exactly on the cutting edge with this stuff.....the Flyers chief analytics guy just did a 1 year online degree program before being hired. And who the hell knows if they even listen to him.

Chayka has a background in data collection and he is clearly open to and invested in it. But PSG was talking about the real nerds, I think. The guys who could go work for top financial firms or who have PhD in statistics and whatnot. Guys who could be at the forefront of other fields. You don't see Hinkie types in hockey.
- Mononoke

Yeah, you don't need someone from MIT running your team, but it would be nice to have someone with that pedigree running your analytics department. Danny Ainge isn't a genius, but he knows who to surround himself with in order to get things done.

One thing Hinkie did with the Sixers was always keep job openings available even when he wasn't looking to hire. He wanted to make sure he never missed out on adding a talented analyst. The NHL is pretty much the opposite. You need an NHL pedigree or nepotism if you want a real job.

Yeah, you don't need someone from MIT running your team, but it would be nice to have someone with that pedigree running your analytics department. Danny Ainge isn't a genius, but he knows who to surround himself with in order to get things done.

One thing Hinkie did with the Sixers was always keep job openings available even when he wasn't looking to hire. He wanted to make sure he never missed out on adding a talented analyst. The NHL is pretty much the opposite. You need an NHL pedigree or nepotism if you want a real job.
- PhillySportsGuy

That is frustrating. Any business owner or CEO should always be looking to improve their staff at each and every level. Considering that most teams are owned by successful billionaire businessmen or huge corporations, I would think that ownership would push harder for this.

That is frustrating. Any business owner or CEO should always be looking to improve their staff at each and every level. Considering that most teams are owned by successful billionaire businessmen or huge corporations, I would think that ownership would push harder for this.
- BiggE

#numbers

That is frustrating. Any business owner or CEO should always be looking to improve their staff at each and every level. Considering that most teams are owned by successful billionaire businessmen or huge corporations, I would think that ownership would push harder for this.
- BiggE

meh, flyers make money hand over fist still. No reason to dabble outside their comfort zone

meh, flyers make money hand over fist still. No reason to dabble outside their comfort zone
- Just5

The Leafs you say?

meh, flyers make money hand over fist still. No reason to dabble outside their comfort zone
- Just5

Ed Snider said a decade ago that the Flyers were losing money. You calling him a liar?