I think the health/food choices may have played a role as well as a potential injury.

Toews came out and said after looking at the last few seasons, he needs to reevaluate and potentially change up his preparation for the next year. This, to me, sort of falls in line with the rumor from last year regarding the potentially unhealthy relationship he developed with a healthy living lifestyle.

Obviously just speculating here, but I know these guys have some of the best nutritionists and doctors you could ask for. They teach them how to shop and what foods to look for and the proper way to prepare them so you get the maximum benefit. Going beyond that (as some have hinted Toews has) seems like it could be somewhat excessive. Nothing wrong with wanting to be as healthy as possible, but it's unhealthy to obsess about health.

Toews had glimpses of his old self at points during this season. If he wasn't scoring, he was doing things that don't get recorded on the scoresheet. Then he would disappear for long stretches.

I think he's lost his game, but I don't think he's done in the league.

What I observe about him is that his seriousness/intensity could cross over into the realm where it begins to affect his game negatively. Obviously not the comparing here, but I know when I get too much in my own head and uptight about mens league, I play awful. When I'm more loose and having fun, I don't think as much and just react and the game comes to me easier. I'm sure there's an aspect (at least a sliver) of the same thing at their level.

Maybe the Hawks take the C away and remove the pressure that comes with it? Let him just be a guy and find his game, without having that microscope on him.
- Hank3Henshaw

Oh man.. talk about tipping the PR cart over.

Oh man.. talking about tipping the PR cart over.
- z1990z

I don't think it's that crazy.

Let him wear the A and hopefully find his game.

Teams do it all the time.

I think the health/food choices may have played a role as well as a potential injury.

Toews came out and said after looking at the last few seasons, he needs to reevaluate and potentially change up his preparation for the next year. This, to me, sort of falls in line with the rumor from last year regarding the potentially unhealthy relationship he developed with a healthy living lifestyle.

Obviously just speculating here, but I know these guys have some of the best nutritionists and doctors you could ask for. They teach them how to shop and what foods to look for and the proper way to prepare them so you get the maximum benefit. Going beyond that (as some have hinted Toews has) seems like it could be somewhat excessive. Nothing wrong with wanting to be as healthy as possible, but it's unhealthy to obsess about health.

Toews had glimpses of his old self at points during this season. If he wasn't scoring, he was doing things that don't get recorded on the scoresheet. Then he would disappear for long stretches.

I think he's lost his game, but I don't think he's done in the league.

What I observe about him is that his seriousness/intensity could cross over into the realm where it begins to affect his game negatively. Obviously not the comparing here, but I know when I get too much in my own head and uptight about mens league, I play awful. When I'm more loose and having fun, I don't think as much and just react and the game comes to me easier. I'm sure there's an aspect (at least a sliver) of the same thing at their level.

Maybe the Hawks take the C away and remove the pressure that comes with it? Let him just be a guy and find his game, without having that microscope on him.
- Hank3Henshaw

I think the back problem is the BIG issue.

Protein is protein. At least, animal-derived protein is. But some evidence does suggest Toews was a better player when he carried about another ten pounds or so. FWIW.

I think whether it's surgery, rest, possibly both, or whatever is needed, he needs to get back to 100% health, and then work on his conditioning to be the best he can be.

Unless he has a debilitating and degenerative injury, which is quite frankly POSSIBLE though probably unlikely, it is FAR too early to be writing his epitaph at 28. In fact, it's probably stupid.

Why do they need a 3rd pairing D man from somewhere else when they already have TVR, Gustaffson, Pokka and some Swedes in the system. Do none of these guys have any potential? That's what Rockford is there to do - develop a couple of these guys into NHL players. Nashville, Tampa, Anaheim and St. Louis are pretty proficient at that.
- RickJ

TvR is a third pairing defenseman, Pokka and Gustafsson are AHLers. Plus, there's a risk TvR is claimed by Vegas. However, my point was more about the type of return Stan might get for Panik, not necessarily the team's needs.

I don't think it's that crazy.

Let him wear the A and hopefully find his game.

Teams do it all the time.
- Hank3Henshaw

Wasnt disagreeing with you. Was just trying to imagine the chaos PR wise if that happened. Bottom line is this team needs to find its focus again. And drive to go through whatever is being tossed at them. In my mind if the Preds want me to dump it, fine but Im gonna plaster your a$$ as I go for the puck.

And I think Toews needs more bulk. Better core strength. This team is just way to cream puffy and does not like to get dirty. Teams now know how to shut us down. Q MUST ADJUST TO THAT! Each line needs a sniper to pair with a road grader who will go to the net.

I think the back problem is the BIG issue.

Protein is protein. At least, animal-derived protein is. But some evidence does suggest Toews was a better player when he carried about another ten pounds or so. FWIW.

I think whether it's surgery, rest, possibly both, or whatever is needed, he needs to get back to 100% health, and then work on his conditioning to be the best he can be.

Unless he has a debilitating and degenerative injury, which is quite frankly POSSIBLE though probably unlikely, it is FAR too early to be writing his epitaph at 28. In fact, it's probably stupid.
- John Jaeckel

I agree about the back injury 100% and I hope you know I wasn't suggesting writing him off or that his career was done by any means.

I'm a big Toews fan and want him to find his form/game again.

As a fan I'm just speculating as to what the issue might be based on some of the things we've seen and heard.

You're totally right about PK in your early comment, too. He was hammering Toew's back all series.

You probably are right, those players will be much harder to play againts then Toews
- VopatsRash

I too remember when my team finally had some playoff success. Maybe the Preds will actually win more than a round, but make sure to DVR the Finals. You'll be watching like we will.

I like everything about the article but disagree on your stance on TVR. I think he is a fine 3rd pairing defenseman. I doubt Campbell or Oduya come back. I like making Keith and Seabs your 2nd pairing. Hammer on line one with a good, right handed defenseman. Someone noted on here they are tired of Hammer's backhanded clearing attempts from the off wing. I am too. Let's move him to the left side and keep him there. Add a nice right handed d-man to play along side Hammer.

Then add a left handed third line d-man veteran (better than Soupy and Oduya) to team with TVR.

Entice Vegas to draft Kruger....not because of his ability...but because we need cap space. It's as simple as that for me.

I keep Crawford and try to trade Darling's rights for a draft pick...can't hurt.

The guys I focus on dealing are Panarin and AA to clear space (along with Kruger).
We can add some forwards with grit (Canadian or American born players) and continue to groom the young guys. Remember...we HAVE to have some of the young, inexpensive guys step up. Our cap situation DICTATES that. I am not saying the rookies are studs....I am saying their low salaries are a huge help for us managing the cap.

Man, thanks for enlightening us.

If you made serious dough (doubtful) or had a trust fund (meh, possible), you could put a whole lot of money on Jonathan Toews at 28 years old being finished.

But the FACT is, he had a pretty serious back injury in the WCH and played through it all year—ahh, maybe you didn't see PK laying cross checks on his lower back the whole series. Would've required not being transfixed RyJo.

So, who knows, back's a real tricky thing and he could be done. Or he isn't. And in a year or two, you'll look like a Pred fanboy who got way out over his skis over Ryan Freaking Johansen.

Who knows?
- John Jaeckel

Serious soft tissue? Or actual structural part of the spine?

I think the back problem is the BIG issue.

Protein is protein. At least, animal-derived protein is. But some evidence does suggest Toews was a better player when he carried about another ten pounds or so. FWIW.

I think whether it's surgery, rest, possibly both, or whatever is needed, he needs to get back to 100% health, and then work on his conditioning to be the best he can be.

Unless he has a debilitating and degenerative injury, which is quite frankly POSSIBLE though probably unlikely, it is FAR too early to be writing his epitaph at 28. In fact, it's probably stupid.
- John Jaeckel

>Back or not, Toews needs to be able to score off the rush and be better in the open ice
>His "I need to recapture the speed of my youth" comments yesterday show that he agrees
>A BIG problem on the PP is that Toews is not really used in a way that creates much -- either for him -- or someone else
>Yes, Toews is out there to win draws, but other than the occasional jam play or rare rebound he finds, his contribution on the PP is nil
>Coaching staff needs to find a better use of Toews on the PP

I think the back problem is the BIG issue.

Protein is protein. At least, animal-derived protein is. But some evidence does suggest Toews was a better player when he carried about another ten pounds or so. FWIW.

I think whether it's surgery, rest, possibly both, or whatever is needed, he needs to get back to 100% health, and then work on his conditioning to be the best he can be.

Unless he has a debilitating and degenerative injury, which is quite frankly POSSIBLE though probably unlikely, it is FAR too early to be writing his epitaph at 28. In fact, it's probably stupid.
- John Jaeckel

I think it should be pointed out that Toews is one of he most in shape athletes in the NHL that 10lbs wasn't fat it was muscle. That leads me to question how much strength he lost with those 10lbs. That is a significant amount of muscle mass to lose. Especially when you already have the body of an elite athlete.

I agree there. Q wins when the horses are running well.. when they dont?
- z1990z

I should be clearer on what I mean by a breakup seemingly being called for here. I'm just saying that it didn't seem like the horses were responding in this series. Until this series, the horses always responded, even when Q didn't have a lineup of all thoroughbreds. Look at any of the other first round exits with this group, and it was clear that the horses ran as hard as they could. The 2011 loss to a stacked Vancouver lineup, last year against the Blues, even the loss to the Yotes, I thought everyone did all they could in those series, and Q always put them in the best position to compete as best they could. This year, we're all wondering wtf happened. So when I talk about a breakup, I don't blame anybody. It's often said that every coach has a shelf life, and my concern is that might be what we're seeing happen right now.

I should be clearer on what I mean by a breakup seemingly being called for here. I'm just saying that it didn't seem like the horses were responding in this series. Until this series, the horses always responded, even when Q didn't have a lineup of all thoroughbreds. Look at any of the other first round exits with this group, and it was clear that the horses ran as hard as they could. The 2011 loss to a stacked Vancouver lineup, last year against the Blues, even the loss to the Yotes, I thought everyone did all they could in those series, and Q always put them in the best position to compete as best they could. This year, we're all wondering wtf happened. So when I talk about a breakup, I don't blame anybody. It's often said that every coach has a shelf life, and my concern is that is what we're seeing happen right now.
- 333inthe3rd

No, I get it. The shelf life issue is legit and Q may have hit it. Guess we will see what happens. If this team struggles early next year, look out.

Funny how the Blues took off after Hitch got 86'd. And Jake Allen caught fire. Word was Elliot wanted out due to Hitch. With Parayko and Edmundson, Blues have a nice D core in the making.

And they got bounced in 4 games by the #8 seed. Soooooooooo . . ?

The comment/rhetoric came from someone in position to know what goes on day to day and what the attitudes are.
- John Jaeckel

if there has been a country club culture...it did no manifest itself negatively during an 82 game season with 8 rookies in and out of the line-up...so we are to accept this culture is a major reason for the blow out vs the preds after the season

not buying it...

if there has been a country club culture...it did no manifest itself negatively during an 82 game season with 8 rookies in and out of the line-up...so we are to accept this culture is a major reason for the blow out vs the preds after the season

not buying it...
- bogiedoc

And, I'm still not clear on what JJ or others think they meant by that term. Can mean a lot of different things.

And, I'm still not clear on what JJ or others think they meant by that term. Can mean a lot of different things.
- pdx2ord

I think we can all agree that the bottom line was this...

Hawks failed to show up when it really mattered. They were 100% out played in every way and were beaten into mush. We looked like a JV team out there.

Man, thanks for enlightening us.

If you made serious dough (doubtful) or had a trust fund (meh, possible), you could put a whole lot of money on Jonathan Toews at 28 years old being finished.

But the FACT is, he had a pretty serious back injury in the WCH and played through it all year—ahh, maybe you didn't see PK laying cross checks on his lower back the whole series. Would've required not being transfixed RyJo.

So, who knows, back's a real tricky thing and he could be done. Or he isn't. And in a year or two, you'll look like a Pred fanboy who got way out over his skis over Ryan Freaking Johansen.

Who knows?
- John Jaeckel

Think there could be something systemic with JT's back? If not, gotta wonder if he was mis-diagnosed. Wonder if we'll see some significant news regarding his health before too long.

As shocking as our loss was, how bout Minny? Geezus. And Montreal out again early.
- z1990z

I don't look at teams worse off than the 'Hawks, I look at the ones doing better.

But yeah, ya gotta wonder about MN. IMO, they made the wrong coaching selection. Habs? Marc may be in trouble.

So Stan has to hit on everything he does this summer. And Q needs to adjust as well. I mentioned this before. Q may not have the same roster, but he has to figure out how to maximize it. And he had no answer for the Preds. Little chunk of fail on everyones plate. For sure this teams needs an identity. We have none. Nobody fears us. Time to find that again.
- z1990z

I'm not there, but gotta wonder if the Hawks are practicing with enough tempo. Their pace was really off...skating too slow, processing/reacting too slow

Whatever the problem/s, the other series' games further highlighted the Hawks' poor showing

I think we can all agree that the bottom line was this...

Hawks failed to show up when it really mattered. They were 100% out played in every way and were beaten into mush. We looked like a JV team out there.
- z1990z

Definitely agree 100% that was the bottom line. If the culture is the root cause, that can be a much harder thing to change than injecting new life through a few strategic player trades. Depends on which elements of that culture people think led to the effort we saw.

That much better contract of Johansen's is now expired. How much do you think you will have to pay him going forward and for how long?

He definitely played extremely well in this series. But if I were you I'd watch carefully on what he does playing up against the Blues or subsequently Getzlaf or Kesler or McDavid. Those are tougher challenges and expectations than what he has met so far.
- RickJ

I am predicting Snuggerud and Dahlstrom have better upside than the players you mentioned. Each is no more than a third pair if and when they actually supplant another. Because Pokka was a trade acqusition, he may get one last look. But no guarantees Svedberg, Pokka, Gus could be negotiated as a bonus made available for peanuts as expansion AHL back ups who have NHL experience (or a lot of AHL time put in)

Each team.probably has similar sort of players whom could be sweeteners. Vegas needs back ups too and it is practicaly a free for all as all teams scramble to set organizational depth.

Gustafson is forever a rag doll, Svedberg too slow forever, but perhaps Pokka might be the best of the sorry bunch.

I think the back problem is the BIG issue.

Protein is protein. At least, animal-derived protein is. But some evidence does suggest Toews was a better player when he carried about another ten pounds or so. FWIW.

I think whether it's surgery, rest, possibly both, or whatever is needed, he needs to get back to 100% health, and then work on his conditioning to be the best he can be.

Unless he has a debilitating and degenerative injury, which is quite frankly POSSIBLE though probably unlikely, it is FAR too early to be writing his epitaph at 28. In fact, it's probably stupid.
- John Jaeckel

I wondet just how many were injured and how many tuned out when they saw that their teamatres were not going to match the rough, tough style administered by the Pred's.

Stan said that Q and himself have to do better.....well i know he laid some of the blame on himself and the players. I'd like to know if he breeched the anemic Pp privately and if Stsn actually sat down and discussed issues with Q

But one thing no one can promise to be better at, is how many are injured before a playoff series starts. And particularly if the injured has a chronic injury.

Hmm. Really curious to see Vegas odds coming out of camp. A lot could and should happen by then. Or at least we hope so.

Definitely agree 100% that was the bottom line. If the culture is the root cause, that can be a much harder thing to change than injecting new life through a few strategic player trades. Depends on which elements of that culture people think led to the effort we saw.
- pdx2ord

If as an organization they determine the culture is bad, soft, complacent Q will be gone. He's a HOF coach that's had an unbelievably great run, but all coaches are hired to be fired, even the hall of famers. Q himself has been fired twice already. You can't fire the players- especially when many are paid at the top of the market and contractually cannot be moved without consent. The most efficient way to give the entire room a jolt is to bring in a new guy to dole out ice time based on present performance rather than past.

Great read JJ.

Remember when Bill Torrey said his biggest regret managing the Islander dynasty was not moving out some of his great players soon enough (or words to that effect)?

Stand pat at your own peril Hawks organization. Worshipping sacred cows for too long leads to long term decline. The refusal or inability to compete in this series and subsequent loss should make the diagnosis an identified disease not just a few annoying symptoms that can be treated painlessly with a couple of aspirins.

This 23 man roster is not good enough, fast enough, big enough or tough enough. Gonna take some time but it can be fixed. Fail to address it and you will likely become another version of the current Vancouver Canucks.
- RickJ

Where the Hawks have made their biggest mistakes in my opinion are

Poor drafting and asset management in the last 3 years - You want back the 1st you gave up for Vermette and the 1st you gave up for Laad, and you needed to turn those picks into future producing players

Paying Seabrook instead of trading him for cheap assets and picks when he was at top value (Edmonton was so stupid once and had so much youth and desperation for a top pairing Dman they were ripe for fleecing) - Use this money that was saved to pay Saad and you don't go down the Anisimov 4.5 million NMC road

Probably could have done better on the Patrick Sharp trade by doing it a year earlier, but was was on your 2015 cup team to thats a tough call.

Paying guys like Bickell, who end up costing guys like TT just to get rid of (Speaking of TT, if you were willing to move on from him earleir, he was the centerpiece the Nucks wanted in a Kesler deal, that would have reshaped your center position significantly, also avoided the Anisimov situation)

Asset Management, and StanBo is very poor at it

In reply to VopatsRash,

Your a big stat man, you forgot a few on Toews, How about being the Captain of 3 Stanley Cup teams, 5 Conference Finals, and a Conn Smythe all by the time he was 28 years old. I am not even counting his 2 gold medals in the Olympics. If you think you have heard the last of Mr. Toews guess again. You boy there hasn't done squat and when or if the Redneck Predators ever win anything then talk. Other than that you can take those stats and stick them where the sun don't shine and I don't mean London, England.