Rinne Lundqvist Talbot Allen Fleury. Its all about goaltending so far... also Elliot on the flipside
- NorthNuck

The top group are good


The bottom guy

depending on the coach. Carlyle had the leafs in the playoffs and had the game 7 in the bag against the bruins....he DID make a crap team better, and they went back to supreme crap after he was gone
- SMBDragon

They were awful that year ...every (frank)ing game they were outshot 45-20 ...they had good goaltending and timely scoring ....two things that are not tied to the head coach

I don't discount what you say as wrong ...but you believe with the right coach the Canucks are a playoff team ...this has to be taken into account when reviewing your opinion on any hockey matters
- Redmile247

doubt they'd be a playoff team, but if they had someone who wasn't terrified of making changes, understood matchups and last change, and had a sense for special teams then the Canucks are like... 22nd?

Thats all stuff Willie showed year one. And then once they played the Flames and he pissed his pants, he went so conservative on every decision that he couldn't have possibly optimized his roster less than he did.

They were awful that year ...every (frank)ing game they were outshot 45-20 ...they had good goaltending and timely scoring ....two things that are not tied to the head coach
- Redmile247

Carlyle had his team in the POs like every year in Toronto from games like 35-50 and they always caved at the end of the year once the goaltenders stopped making 35 saves on 37 shots. Which he then felt was the goalie's fault and not his systems.

doubt they'd be a playoff team, but if they had someone who wasn't terrified of making changes, understood matchups and last change, and had a sense for special teams then the Canucks are like... 22nd?

Thats all stuff Willie showed year one. And then once they played the Flames and he pissed his pants, he went so conservative on every decision that he couldn't have possibly optimized his roster less than he did.
- Lindenis#1

I do get the willie hate ...he did some questionable things a lot ...but some act like he cost the team a playoff spot ...it all comes down to who he was trying to appease ..the fan base who wants to see the youth or his bosses who paid more for certain players

Carlyle had his team in the POs like every year in Toronto from games like 35-50 and they always caved at the end of the year once the goaltenders stopped making 35 saves on 37 shots. Which he then felt was the goalie's fault and not his systems.
- Lindenis#1

The leafs played a crap game for his tenure ...they brought in Horachek and he initiated a defensive system which failed ...is he to blame or the terrible roster he inherited

They were awful that year ...every (frank)ing game they were outshot 45-20 ...they had good goaltending and timely scoring ....two things that are not tied to the head coach
- Redmile247

It also helped that it was a 48 game season.

The leafs played a crap game for his tenure ...they brought in Horachek and he initiated a defensive system which failed ...is he to blame or the terrible roster he inherited
- Redmile247

The roster was mediocre, but Carlyle's system was, and always has been, built around 2 way centers for transition which he never had at any point in Toronto beyond Grabovski, who he would bench in favour of Jay McClement and whichever 4th liner he got as a new toy.

He was also instrumental in the Clarkson signing because when his teams lost it was A) goalie didn't make 46 saves or B) need more leadership and heart

By the time he was fired the Leafs were already stripping the carpet on a rebuild and no coach could have come in and fixed that tire fire without an offseason.

Not Rasanen?
- manvanfan

He is a fourth rounder

The roster was mediocre, but Carlyle's system was, and always has been, built around 2 way centers for transition which he never had at any point in Toronto beyond Grabovski, who he would bench in favour of Jay McClement and whichever 4th liner he got as a new toy.

He was also instrumental in the Clarkson signing because when his teams lost it was A) goalie didn't make 46 saves or B) need more leadership and heart

By the time he was fired the Leafs were already stripping the carpet on a rebuild and no coach could have come in and fixed that tire fire without an offseason.
- Lindenis#1

When you have no talent you need goaltending and heart n soul guys to make up for it

When you have no talent you need goaltending and heart n soul guys to make up for it
- Redmile247

He had enough talent he should have been able to do better than a team that was continually bottom 6-7. He had the best years of Kessel, JVR, Lupul and Phaneuf. He generally always had above average goaltending compared to the rest of the league. He had enough depth and complimentary players to do fine with MacArthur, Grabovski, Kulemin, Kadri and others.

Instead he never figured out a system that suited his players and would blame his youngsters for not being good enough, his goalies for not having a .970 save percentage and everyone but his 4th line for not being gritty enough.

The only thing he never had in TO was a #1 center, but lots of teams don't and they find ways to make it work and get to the playoffs.

When you have no talent you need goaltending and heart n soul guys to make up for it
- Redmile247

Cue
Guddy and Miller

Cue
Guddy and Miller
- Pres.cup

All the Canucks were missing this year was Dorsett and Gudbranson Heart and Grit'ing their way to the playoffs

He had enough talent he should have been able to do better than a team that was continually bottom 6-7. He had the best years of Kessel, JVR, Lupul and Phaneuf. He generally always had above average goaltending compared to the rest of the league. He had enough depth and complimentary players to do fine with MacArthur, Grabovski, Kulemin, Kadri and others.

Instead he never figured out a system that suited his players and would blame his youngsters for not being good enough, his goalies for not having a .970 save percentage and everyone but his 4th line for not being gritty enough.

The only thing he never had in TO was a #1 center, but lots of teams don't and they find ways to make it work and get to the playoffs.
- Lindenis#1

So he had a one dimensional forward, a top 6 winger, a injury riddled sex addict, a top 4 D man ....why wasn't he winning cups like in Anaheim

So he had a one dimensional forward, a top 6 winger, a injury riddled sex addict, a top 4 D man ....why wasn't he winning cups like in Anaheim

- Redmile247

He had one of the highest scoring forwards in the entire NHL, another first line winger, enough second liners to have 2 second lines, average to better goaltending and a D core that was perfectly good enough for a top 4 with a weak bottom pair.

That should have been enough to make the playoffs or be on the bubble. Instead they were drafting right outside the lottery.

All the Canucks were missing this year was Dorsett and Gudbranson Heart and Grit'ing their way to the playoffs
- Lindenis#1

Damn, I forgot Dorset.... and Sutters balls.... rumor has it that they're gritty as hell!

Close but no cigar...what really happened was the Larsson trade which allowed Klef to be more offensive since Larsson could protect the defensive end...also the signing of Russel helped as well....as much as you guys want to hang it all on coaching its really a combo of the GM coach and players
- RatedR80

Not hanging it all on coaching. I do agree with your take. The response was to the other poster who was dismissing it played a role.

Of course there were player improvements to talent level. But my particular part wasn't on that. It was on this series. It showed how adjustments were made. Example, shots against were reduced. The goalie play is the biggest uncertainty that coach can't effect much. But he got D and special teams humming. Made adjustments after that blow out. So your guy did his job. Got his talent to work for him right.

Too bad for Nucks. Another lossed opportunity. Off team Shark for good. Let them choke in their rebuild vomit. Now the road is paved open for a run in playoffs. Have fun.

Damn, I forgot Dorset.... and Sutters balls.... rumor has it that they're gritty as hell!
- Pres.cup

The grittiest of balls. As seen by all the times he's late to pucks, loses board battles and does flybys while swinging his stick. Those gritty balls are chafing his legs too much.

He had one of the highest scoring forwards in the entire NHL, another first line winger, enough second liners to have 2 second lines, average to better goaltending and a D core that was perfectly good enough for a top 4 with a weak bottom pair.

That should have been enough to make the playoffs or be on the bubble. Instead they were drafting right outside the lottery.
- Lindenis#1

You must be a leafs fan ...that roster wasn't that good

Not hanging it all on coaching. I do agree with your take. The response was to the other poster who was dismissing it played a role.

Of course there were player improvements to talent level. But my particular part wasn't on that. It was on this series. It showed how adjustments were made. Example, shots against were reduced. The goalie play is the biggest uncertainty that coach can't effect much. But he got D and special teams humming. Made adjustments after that blow out. So your guy did his job. Got his talent to work for him right.

Too bad for Nucks. Another lossed opportunity. Off team Shark for good. Let them choke in their rebuild vomit. Now the road is paved open for a run in playoffs. Have fun.
- Nuck4U

The Sharks are a lot closer to falling off a cliff than I think people assume. Thornton can't continue to defy age forever, Marleau has been slowing down for a couple years, Pavelski is going on 33. The defence is good, but isn't young.

It's going to be hella important that Hertl and Meier really make big steps to be legit top 6 forwards or they could end up in bubble hell like Calgary was for nearly a decade.

You must be a leafs fan ...that roster wasn't that good
- Redmile247

They were average collections of talent that were sewered by a coach asking players to be players they weren't and could never be.

The grittiest of balls. As seen by all the times he's late to pucks, loses board battles and does flybys while swinging his stick. Those gritty balls are chafing his legs too much.
- Lindenis#1

Meh, I'd rather have him then Bonino, he's not great but I've seen him win more puck battles then he loses..... he doesn't get respect because he makes 0.5m to much but idgaf about that right now.
He is fast.... lots of short handed chances etc....

People way him to be a punisher but he's not that big. Lanky farmboy strong.

(frank) i do sound like a fanboy.
He's Kessler light

The Sharks are a lot closer to falling off a cliff than I think people assume. Thornton can't continue to defy age forever, Marleau has been slowing down for a couple years, Pavelski is going on 33. The defence is good, but isn't young.

It's going to be hella important that Hertl and Meier really make big steps to be legit top 6 forwards or they could end up in bubble hell like Calgary was for nearly a decade.
- Lindenis#1

It all depends on what they do with the Thornton and marleau money ...if an Oshie comes and something else then who knows


The flames were an average team who went to the finals off stellar goaltending and hard work ...and then management believed iggy and kipper were enough ...I don't see the sharks doing this ...yet

The Sharks are a lot closer to falling off a cliff than I think people assume. Thornton can't continue to defy age forever, Marleau has been slowing down for a couple years, Pavelski is going on 33. The defence is good, but isn't young.

It's going to be hella important that Hertl and Meier really make big steps to be legit top 6 forwards or they could end up in bubble hell like Calgary was for nearly a decade.
- Lindenis#1

Sharks are us two years ago......

Goodnight

They were average collections of talent that were sewered by a coach asking players to be players they weren't and could never be.
- Lindenis#1

So the roster was the problem