Two things to take out of this on Darcy's hemming and hawing:

1) That's why we can have a discussion as to when the tank REALLY began and still not reach a concrete starting point.

2) That's why we're in the mess we are.


Actually,

That's why Tim Murray was loved, at first, because you may not agree with him, but there was ONE direction he was moving. He is the definition of decisive.

Whether he's done good or not is up for debate, but man is he decisive.
- gcomella34

I dont disagree but that's why i think he should be gone. He set a goal and he failed. isn't this usually how GM's get canned?

Risto's had a pretty good game amidst this mess

Can't believe Babcock parked the bus

Since we're all a little on edge tonight. I thought I'd try and lighten the mood. Watch this and I dare you not to laugh.


- Wetbandit1

https://youtu.be/CEQuDyuQFKE

Start around 1:20 and wait for it.

I dont disagree but that's why i think he should be gone. He set a goal and he failed. isn't this usually how GM's get canned?
- Sabresfan-365

I'm cautious with changing course so quickly, I mean look at the Steelers with how their organization just stays steady through turbulent times.

Being a Giants fan, the only thing I think Bylsma could do if he stays, is to take a page out of Tom Coughlin's book; sit down with the players and have a serious heart to heart. Take your notes, lumps, and apply the feedback.

But, I could also see a scenario with one or both are gone at the end of the year.

I just know this, if the Pegula's are smart, they're not making this decision when the team is being outshot 5-1 at the end of a horrible season.

Make decisions with a clear mind.

https://youtu.be/CEQuDyuQFKE

Start around 1:20 and wait for it.
- Der Kaiser

That's funny. If birds could be embarrassed that other one totally was.

I'm cautious with changing course so quickly, I mean look at the Steelers with how their organization just stays steady through turbulent times.

Being a Giants fan, the only thing I think Bylsma could do if he stays, is to take a page out of Tom Coughlin's book; sit down with the players and have a serious heart to heart. Take your notes, lumps, and apply the feedback.

But, I could also see a scenario with one or both are gone at the end of the year.

I just know this, if the Pegula's are smart, they're not making this decision when the team is being outshot 5-1 at the end of a horrible season.
Make decisions with a clear mind.
- gcomella34

It may be interpreted that way but the truth is they failed big picture. They may give him a chance to fix it but personally i dont trust him to.

I'm cautious with changing course so quickly, I mean look at the Steelers with how their organization just stays steady through turbulent times.

Being a Giants fan, the only thing I think Bylsma could do if he stays, is to take a page out of Tom Coughlin's book; sit down with the players and have a serious heart to heart. Take your notes, lumps, and apply the feedback.

But, I could also see a scenario with one or both are gone at the end of the year.

I just know this, if the Pegula's are smart, they're not making this decision when the team is being outshot 5-1 at the end of a horrible season.

Make decisions with a clear mind.
- gcomella34

Stay or go, I think the decision's been made already.

Stay or go, I think the decision's been made already.
- Wetbandit1

The pending Antipin signing makes me think hes here for at least another year

It may be interpreted that way but the truth is they failed big picture. They may give him a chance to fix it but personally i dont trust him to.
- Sabresfan-365

Absolutely.

It's all speculation, I hope they wouldn't make that kind of decision at the time and I'm going to have to trust that they won't.

I'm more about Bylsma going than Murray right now. Solely because the team play is more on him. I don't see Bylsma putting the players he has in the best position to succeed but wanting his players to cave to his system, even if it doesn't fit his style.

I can't help but look at Zemgus. This guy's work ethic was always lauded as great at every level by all coaches. They all talked about how coachable he was. When I saw Bylsma struggling to get along with him that got my attention but I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt. There has just been too much regression in players since he's gotten here, it looks like a pattern to me.

But, if both went, I'd understand it. Wouldn't like it as we're changing course, but it is what it is.

Absolutely.

It's all speculation, I hope they wouldn't make that kind of decision at the time and I'm going to have to trust that they won't.

I'm more about Bylsma going than Murray right now. Solely because the team play is more on him. I don't see Bylsma putting the players he has in the best position to succeed but wanting his players to cave to his system, even if it doesn't fit his style.

I can't help but look at Zemgus. This guy's work ethic was always lauded as great at every level by all coaches. They all talked about how coachable he was. When I saw Bylsma struggling to get along with him that got my attention but I could at least give him the benefit of the doubt. There has just been too much regression in players since he's gotten here, it looks like a pattern to me.

But, if both went, I'd understand it. Wouldn't like it as we're changing course, but it is what it is.
- gcomella34

They just dont have the personnel for me to blame this on bylsma. If they had a capable blueline that would be one thing. No coach could work with this and make it significantly better, not over 82 games anyways.

If the question becomes more about individuals being "ruined" or hindered by him then i think the argument is a little stronger. You dont want the kids to just have their way but if theirs not even a certain respect level even out of fear or something then its already lost.

The pending Antipin signing makes me think hes here for at least another year
- Sabresfan-365

I was talking more Bylsma, Murray is definitely getting at least one more year. I know he doesn't care about the money, but Pegula can't give a guy an extension and then fire him before it kicks in.

I was talking more Bylsma, Murray is definitely getting at least one more year. I know he doesn't care about the money, but Pegula can't give a guy an extension and then fire him before it kicks in.
- Wetbandit1

Thats why i was wondering if theres some sort of loophole. Like an extension but Pegula has some sort of opt out where he can say "sike, b!tch you thought" and take the extension off the table.

They just dont have the personnel for me to blame this on bylsma. If they had a capable blueline that would be one thing. No coach could work with this and make it significantly better, not over 82 games anyways.
- Sabresfan-365

It's really tough. On one hand I agree, on the other I don't believe this system is right for this team. This is an LA or Anaheim system. They've said numerous times this year that they're a grinding team. They shouldn't be.

They just dont have the personnel for me to blame this on bylsma. If they had a capable blueline that would be one thing. No coach could work with this and make it significantly better, not over 82 games anyways.

If the question becomes more about individuals being "ruined" or hindered by him then i think the argument is a little stronger. You dont want the kids to just have their way but if theirs not even a certain respect level even out of fear or something then its already lost.
- Sabresfan-365

I think DB is a goner. This is getting outta control since the bye.

I just don't subscribe to the idea that he's 75% of the problem

Thats why i was wondering if theres some sort of loophole. Like an extension but Pegula has some sort of opt out where he can say "sike, b!tch you thought" and take the extension off the table.
- Sabresfan-365

It doesn't matter, he gave him the extension. Even if he can get out of paying it. It looks really, really bad.

They just dont have the personnel for me to blame this on bylsma. If they had a capable blueline that would be one thing. No coach could work with this and make it significantly better, not over 82 games anyways.
- Sabresfan-365

Two points on this:

1) You're absolutely right, this defense is ATROCIOUS. That's on Murray.
2) Have a friend, who is a big Pitt fan. Told me that his biggest gripe on Bylsma is what he does with the D.

So, against HockeyBuzz rules apparently, two things can be true at once:

I believe that Bylsma could have altered his defensive system and relied more heavily on his forwards (which we'd all agree are a bit deeper than the D though not much) to help the D. Maybe simplify it. Again this is all speculation on my part and analysis through hear say but it sounds pretty accurate based on other complaints I heard previously with this guy.

Two points on this:

1) You're absolutely right, this defense is ATROCIOUS. That's on Murray.
2) Have a friend, who is a big Pitt fan. Told me that his biggest gripe on Bylsma is what he does with the D.

So, against HockeyBuzz rules apparently, two things can be true at once:

I believe that Bylsma could have altered his defensive system and relied more heavily on his forwards (which we'd all agree are a bit deeper than the D though not much) to help the D. Maybe simplify it. Again this is all speculation on my part and analysis through hear say but it sounds pretty accurate based on other complaints I heard previously with this guy.
- gcomella34

I'm still unwilling to call him a bad coach. Bad coaches don't win Stanley Cups, they just don't. He's not the right coach. And his utter lack of tweaking his system will ultimately be his downfall, and maybe that Cup was the worst thing that could've happened to him as a coach.

Also good to see that the Sabres quadrupled their shot total from the first to second period from 2 to 8.

Small victories.

Two points on this:

1) You're absolutely right, this defense is ATROCIOUS. That's on Murray.
2) Have a friend, who is a big Pitt fan. Told me that his biggest gripe on Bylsma is what he does with the D.

So, against HockeyBuzz rules apparently, two things can be true at once:

I believe that Bylsma could have altered his defensive system and relied more heavily on his forwards (which we'd all agree are a bit deeper than the D though not much) to help the D. Maybe simplify it. Again this is all speculation on my part and analysis through hear say but it sounds pretty accurate based on other complaints I heard previously with this guy.
- gcomella34

Agreed, which is why the nuclear option may actually be the logical one. When the mess is this bad, its likely both statements you made are true.

Their biggest mistake was even considering bylsma. They brought an x's and o's guy in to coach a team that neither had the players nor the core experience and by that i mean guys like eichel and reinhart dont need that in their careers right now. They need the players coach.

Part of me thinks this is what worked for gallant for a while in florida. The youngsters bought into a guy who simplified and motivated and if you set the bar low enough (which they failed to do here) sometimes thats all you need. Instead they amped up pressure on guys who clearly werent ready.

I'm still unwilling to call him a bad coach. Bad coaches don't win Stanley Cups, they just don't. He's not the right coach. And his utter lack of tweaking his system will ultimately be his downfall, and maybe that Cup was the worst thing that could've happened to him as a coach.
- Wetbandit1

I agree with all of this. I'd never call him a bad coach.

I don't think the internet conveys my moderate position on this matter.

I blame the internet for creating conversations based on the following:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/[url]

I think DB is a goner. This is getting outta control since the bye.

I just don't subscribe to the idea that he's 75% of the problem
- sbroads24

I think 50/50 is fair. Its easier to put it more on bylsma because that would mean fixing it would be easier.

I think 50/50 is fair. Its easier to put it more on bylsma because that would mean fixing it would be easier.
- Sabresfan-365

Part of it is hope. I mean, if we could get a different coach here and succeed with the players we have of course that would be better.

But in looking at the state Rochester is in right now and this team. Well, Bylsma ain't coaching both of 'em.

I agree with all of this. I'd never call him a bad coach.

I don't think the internet conveys my moderate position on this matter.

I blame the internet for creating conversations based on the following:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
- gcomella34[url]

Oh, yeah, your's was just the last comment. I wasn't saying anything against you.

But yes. Since context/tone is nigh on impossible to convey through text it can get tricky.

77 the (frank) was that