Not sure if its fair to compare sullivan as his role here was assistant coach under torts and won the cup as HC with no torts

this is a very polarizing topic
can we all agree its 50% coach and 50% players then?
- SMBDragon

if you are agreeing that it is not entirely Willies fault, then the point of my post has been made and I am glad you are seeing both sides of the willy D argument.

So you are in the medical profession how is it you are able to manage all the chicks??
- LordHumungous

I have to get creative....

some days I lose a lot of sleep, there's days off too.

Monday I went to 7am with this current gal, only to get up at 830 for work. Tuesday was a long long day wow.

What ever the decision is, it has to be a coach with a proven record of developing talent. No matter who they put in the team is going to not win many games.
- mauryballstein

Calling Bob Hartley!

frank no it's 52.5% players and 47.5% coaching
- CanuckDon

lol ok ok how were able to ascertain the 2.5%??

Yes I feel it's the players.
No, I don't think Willie is flawless.
- Marwood

That's what most people feel. Maybe someday we'll see it.

My breakdown of the coaches is reality. I can't help you can't see it. There isn't one person in here that thought Torts was the right coach and did a good job here.

Hey I'm not saying this roster is good, because it isn't. But to reference former coaches having success on other team as part of your argument is wrong. AV is a solid coach, Torts has changed how he approaches the players and is having success because of it and Sullivan, look at the team.

I'm not on here saying this is all on WD, because it isn't.....but he is part of it. And unfortunately to move forward you can't fire all the players to make a change.
- Kaynine

yes, the roster will slowly change. We can make a major change for the better by changing the coach. Squeezing more out of the current roster and letting JB do his thing.

if you are agreeing that it is not entirely Willies fault, then the point of my post has been made and I am glad you are seeing both sides of the willy D argument.
- Codes1087

Ive always seen it. BUt the side that is "players fault" are of the perspective that its 100% the players which is not even close.
The sides are far apart. Best to agree its 50/50...personally Id say 75% coaches fault but for sanity's sake lets go with 50

frank no it's 52.5% players and 47.5% coaching
- CanuckDon

Way the duck of base Donna, we all know its 52.2 on the players and 48 percent on the fans. The coach can take a negative .2 percent of the blame...

Ive always seen it. BUt the side that is "players fault" are of the perspective that its 100% the players which is not even close.
The sides are far apart. Best to agree its 50/50...personally Id say 75% coaches fault but for sanity's sake lets go with 50
- SMBDragon

You can't deny the success other coaches who have been here recently are currently having. Hell, just look at the staff we had under Torts:

Torts has the Jackets playing great.

Sullivan just won a cup with Pitt and has them playing great again this year.

Gulutzan struggled early in Calgary, but now has them rolling.

You had 3 current head coaches who are all doing a solid job on the same staff, that's pretty much as good of a coaching staff as you'll get, no?

Yet this team collapsed hard under them. I'm not a WD fan at all, but any coach would struggle with this roster.

SJ had a 9 point lead and after last night now sit in 3rd.
- manvanfan

Pretty sure it's Willy's fault.

Ive always seen it. BUt the side that is "players fault" are of the perspective that its 100% the players which is not even close.
The sides are far apart. Best to agree its 50/50...personally Id say 75% coaches fault but for sanity's sake lets go with 50
- SMBDragon

i totally disagree with you.

2 years ago, i laid out a 10 paragraph essay totally destroying your argument. you read it and acknowledged that it annihilated your argument.

i can't be bothered to continually re-write these things. go back and find it and you'll remember why you're wrong.

You can't deny the success other coaches who have been here recently are currently having. Hell, just look at the staff we had under Torts:

Torts has the Jackets playing great.

Sullivan just won a cup with Pitt and has them playing great again this year.

Gulutzan struggled early in Calgary, but now has them rolling.

You had 3 current head coaches who are all doing a solid job on the same staff, that's pretty much as good of a coaching staff as you'll get, no?

Yet this team collapsed hard under them. I'm not a WD fan at all, but any coach would struggle with this roster.
- Nucker101

both torts and sullivan have learned a lot and have changed a lot since they were here too. Sullivan talked lots about that following his cup win. They arent the same coaches as they were when they were here.
When they were all together however they had canucks in what was it 3rd OA in nhl for 1st half? It was the epic nose dive that followed that destroyed it all.

i totally disagree with you.

2 years ago, i laid out a 10 paragraph essay totally destroying your argument. you read it and acknowledged that it annihilated your argument.

i can't be bothered to continually re-write these things. go back and find it and you'll remember why you're wrong.
- RealityChecker

no, there never was any acknowledgement of that. Id have changed my tune then.
You totally made this up. Nice try, lets stick with FACTS from here on, not fiction

no, there never was any acknowledgement of that. Id have changed my tune then.
You totally made this up. Nice try, lets stick with FACTS from here on, not fiction
- SMBDragon

hey bro. your memory seems to be fading. i can't help you if you're going to continually forget. it's tiring having to keep writing these things out.

go back and find it bro.

Way the duck of base Donna, we all know its 52.2 on the players and 48 percent on the fans. The coach can take a negative .2 percent of the blame...
- Pres.cup

Wtf do I know I'm just a Walmart clerk

hey bro. your memory seems to be fading. i can't help you if you're going to continually forget. it's tiring having to keep writing these things out.

go back and find it bro.
- RealityChecker

theres no memory issue here. Just a BS issue on your part.
Dont you think I recognize the "2 years ago I posted" "dont wanna have to re type" "go find it yourself" which is a copy of my post....and youre using it to twist things here

both torts and sullivan have learned a lot and have changed a lot since they were here too. Sullivan talked lots about that following his cup win. They arent the same coaches as they were when they were here.
When they were all together however they had canucks in what was it 3rd OA in nhl for 1st half? It was the epic nose dive that followed that destroyed it all.
- SMBDragon

I'm sure they made adjustments, but I have a hard tome believing that they went from changing their systems dramatically, it was probably about yelling a bit less in public.

This team was playing pretty decently under them until the nosedive, once adversity hit the team, they folded like a cheap tent that year. I'd say the players deserve some blame in that too.

theres no memory issue here. Just a BS issue on your part.
Dont you think I recognize the "2 years ago I posted" "dont wanna have to re type" "go find it yourself" which is a copy of my post....and youre using it to twist things here
- SMBDragon

hey bro. it was on the same day as when you posted your detailed points about coaching. so you know where it is. you can copy and paste your post too.

hey bro. it was on the same day as when you posted your detailed points about coaching. so you know where it is. you can copy and paste your post too.
- RealityChecker

well then you know where it is too... see ya when you fetch yours (although fictional)

well then you know where it is too... see ya when you fetch yours (although fictional)
- SMBDragon

hey bro. i can't be bothered to go back and find it for you bro.

it's too tiring to explain things over and over to you bro. you're going to have to do some work yourself, bro, if you want to learn bro.

The new blog is up.

Will the Canucks face a flat Kings team tonight after their emotional game in Calgary on Wednesday?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...s-Angeles-Kings/194/84176

I'm sure they made adjustments, but I have a hard tome believing that they went from changing their systems dramatically, it was probably about yelling a bit less in public.

This team was playing pretty decently under them until the nosedive, once adversity hit the team, they folded like a cheap tent that year. I'd say the players deserve some blame in that too.
- Nucker101

ya that was probably a huge part of it....I keep picturing him ripping hanson on the bench. He had a super bad season that year. Edler as well.

Thats why I like Mike keenan, he will rip you but then give you the keys to what he sees need to improve then give you the chances to excel. Naslund credited him with turning around his career. Once naslund got what he was pitching he became a superstar. Those teams he coached turned into powerhouses for years after he was gone. Including vancouver.

ya that was probably a huge part of it....I keep picturing him ripping hanson on the bench. He had a super bad season that year. Edler as well.

Thats why I like Mike keenan, he will rip you but then give you the keys to what he sees need to improve then give you the chances to excel. Naslund credited him with turning around his career. Once naslund got what he was pitching he became a superstar. Those teams he coached turned into powerhouses for years after he was gone. Including vancouver.
- SMBDragon

wouldn't that be a result of the new coaching like sullivan in pitt?

crawford had the same team (almost) that keenan did and the record was much better so it was all crawford wasn't it?

i'm just trying to grasp your coaching wisdom.