[quote=BiggE]No doubt, as are the goalies, but no 2 Dmen seem to play such a high percentage of the PK as do PEB/VdV. Plus, I think a lot of their struggles on the PK come from being too passive at the top of the box and that is mainly on the forward duo. I also think starting the PK with PEB taking the opening faceoff is a poor idea as he is mediocre at best on draws.

MacDonald and Provorov play almost 2:50 on the PK. They play more then anyone.

I don't completely agree. I am not trying to suggest that the goalies make the call, I am just saying I bet they have preferences that get discussed. Certain goalies are mentally prepared to be a backup and some are for starting. Some prefer a certain consistency to the days off, etc. Seems like the worst thing for the goalies here was not knowing who the actual starter was. That and having different expectations for each goalie seemed off
- YuenglingJagr

Yeah, you may be right. Some guys do have the mental makeup, especially as they age, to be a backup. I don't think that applies though to either of the Flyers current goalies. My guess is that both see themselves as starters, and both want to play as much as possible.

This is a hypothetical question, so I'm not going to waste my time, but I will say this:

FACT: The Flyers PK is not good
FACT: VdV/PEB get, by far, the most PK time of any of the forwards

Draw your own conclusions.
- BiggE

So by that logic...Provorov has been on the PK a minute longer than Bellemare for most on the team this season. Is he a bad PKer?

Kind of hard to blame Provy for the PK struggles which have been going on since October 2014. And even if he's not a great NHL PKer now, he has upside.

are you on mobile?
- YuenglingJagr

Nope, why?

[quote=BiggE]No doubt, as are the goalies, but no 2 Dmen seem to play such a high percentage of the PK as do PEB/VdV. Plus, I think a lot of their struggles on the PK come from being too passive at the top of the box and that is mainly on the forward duo. I also think starting the PK with PEB taking the opening faceoff is a poor idea as he is mediocre at best on draws.

MacDonald and Provorov play almost 2:50 on the PK. They play more then anyone.
- J35Bacher

Perhaps, but there are only 6 Dmen to choose from and Ghost is just about never used on the PK, so in reality there are only 5. Last time I checked there are a lot more forwards on this roster (Giroux, Simmonds, Fip, Coots, Read, PEB, VdV) who can kill penalties than there Dmen that can do the same.

Bill hitting Flyers fans hard on Twitter today. lol

So by that logic...Provorov has been on the PK a minute longer than Bellemare for most on the team this season. Is he a bad PKer?
- Baxter27

I think both special teams have kind of become stagnate. I think you could see Lapperrier and Mullen gone after this season. A new set of eyes and ideas could be a good change.

So by that logic...Provorov has been on the PK a minute longer than Bellemare for most on the team this season. Is he a bad PKer?
- Baxter27

I have to go back to work, so I'll say this one last time. I believe the Flyers biggest issue on the PK is losing the opening faceoff and not pressuring the opposition when they come up the ice and at the top of the box. I'm not sure how any of that is on the D or on the goalies.

I think both special teams have kind of become stagnate. I think you could see Lapperrier and Mullen gone after this season. A new set of eyes and ideas could be a good change.
- J35Bacher

I'd love to see that happen.

So, if I'm reading correctly, here is what the Flyers need to do:

1. Get rid of Hakstol for a "real" top-5 NHL coach. You know, one of the 5 best should be readily available and willing to come here.

2. Get all better players. Young, cheap ones. Can't we just get a few more Provorov's and a McDavid or 6?

3. Get ca. 2012 Henrik Lundqvist

Would be a start.
- jmatchett383

Just say blow it up like some do, without any real suggestion, and offer that genius analysis, and then suggest that team management is incompetent for not following that simple easy fix.

Perhaps, but there are only 6 Dmen to choose from and Ghost is just about never used on the PK, so in reality there are only 5. Last time I checked there are a lot more forwards on this roster (Giroux, Simmonds, Fip, Coots, Read, PEB, VdV) who can kill penalties than there Dmen that can do the same.
- BiggE

And I get that.

But for most of the season Giroux has been awful so I am not sure I would have used him on the PK. Also we all seemed to want to limit hard minutes on Giroux.

So, if I'm reading correctly, here is what the Flyers need to do:

1. Get rid of Hakstol for a "real" top-5 NHL coach. You know, one of the 5 best should be readily available and willing to come here.

2. Get all better players. Young, cheap ones. Can't we just get a few more Provorov's and a McDavid or 6?

3. Get ca. 2012 Henrik Lundqvist

Would be a start.
- jmatchett383

Seems plausible.

And to be fair, this is super easy in NHL '17.

Perhaps, but there are only 6 Dmen to choose from and Ghost is just about never used on the PK, so in reality there are only 5. Last time I checked there are a lot more forwards on this roster (Giroux, Simmonds, Fip, Coots, Read, PEB, VdV) who can kill penalties than there Dmen that can do the same.
- BiggE

Lyubimov killed a lot of penalties in Russia, barely gets a sniff here. That would be very easy to justify if the Flyers PK wasn't 20-something for the third year in a row.

This is a hypothetical question, so I'm not going to waste my time, but I will say this:

FACT: The Flyers PK is not good
FACT: VdV/PEB get, by far, the most PK time of any of the forwards

Draw your own conclusions.
- BiggE

I have no issue with saying the PK is not where it should be, so why not try this. That is reasonable. What I have an issue with is the inference that it's obvious that other players are better, and the coach is clueless for not recognizing that and making that change, as if it would automatically improve.

Bill hitting Flyers fans hard on Twitter today. lol
- Scoob

Like fans of most sports teams, Flyers fans LOVE to talk about re-building and watching a franchise evolve, but mostly dislike the process it takes to get there.

what?
- YuenglingJagr

You crack me up, no kidding!

Its hard to answer a question like that because if my Aunt had a Richard she'd be my uncle.
- jak521

Not really looking for an answer, just an acknowledgement that players are not faced with the same situations, and there are many factors involved than just the play of Vandevelde and Bellemare on the PK.

I have no issue with saying the PK is not where it should be, so why not try this. That is reasonable. What I have an issue with is the inference that it's obvious that other players are better, and the coach is clueless for not recognizing that and making that change, as if it would automatically improve.
- MJL

Everyone loves Hextall's plan until he actually puts it into place and keeps his word.

I think both special teams have kind of become stagnate. I think you could see Lapperrier and Mullen gone after this season. A new set of eyes and ideas could be a good change.
- J35Bacher

I could see the case for Lappy to go or be reassigned. However Mullen would be the one assistant coach I'd be adamant in keeping. He's had too much success coaching the PP over his Flyers career. He's not exactly failing at it this year either, they rank in the top half of the league. They're just too dependent on it.

I have to go back to work, so I'll say this one last time. I believe the Flyers biggest issue on the PK is losing the opening faceoff and not pressuring the opposition when they come up the ice and at the top of the box. I'm not sure how any of that is on the D or on the goalies.
- BiggE

And Bellemare has lost over 60% of his SH DZ draws this season

http://puckbase.com/stats...PHI&situation=sh&zone=def

Not really looking for an answer, just an acknowledgement that players are not faced with the same situations, and there are many factors involved than just the play of Vandevelde and Bellemare on the PK.
- MJL

Speak when spoken to

Honest question, if for some crazy reason the Flyers had to fold or something. Is it suicide?

No doubt, as are the goalies, but no 2 Dmen seem to play such a high percentage of the PK as do PEB/VdV. Plus, I think a lot of their struggles on the PK come from being too passive at the top of the box and that is mainly on the forward duo. I also think starting the PK with PEB taking the opening faceoff is a poor idea as he is mediocre at best on draws.

When you have a mediocre overall group of Dmen, and aren't getting top notch goaltending, the best way to kill penalties is to win the faceoff, get it out, and press the hell out the pp unit trying your best to not let them set up. I rarely see the Flyers doing any of these things.

If it were up to me, I'd go back to letting Giroux start the PK, mainly to win the faceoff and go with the following rotation:

PEB/Giroux (if they get a quick clear, replace Giroux with Read)
Coots/Simmonds
PEB/VdV
Fip/Read or Coots/Simmonds (depends on the game situation)

With the way the PK has struggled, why not change it up?
- BiggE

Provorov has played the most minutes shorthanded out of any player on the team. MacDonald is 4th, and both defenseman's minutes totals are similar to Vandevelde and Bellemare.

Babcock was available. Flyers couldn't compete with the Leafs for his services though.
- PLindbergh31

No they couldn't.

Hope Sota miss 5 regulars to like that WinniPig

Everyone loves Hextall's plan until he actually puts it into place and keeps his word.
- J35Bacher

Actually its more in line with wanting a full tear down. Something he does not want to do.

Yet.