Tbh, he looks like a guy who has the potential to really fall off. He just turned 33.

- PhillySportsGuy

Regression happens when players turn 29, especially guys that are undersized. At 33, all the regression has already happened. Hell, he might even get better!

That impending departure is probably what's going to bother me the most about this off season. I'm just waiting for his 3-4 year deal with Dallas or Winnipeg at a reasonable price.
- Baxter27

I will be very happy!

Honestly, I've fine with a short term deal for Ghost just so the summer threads aren't full of people whining about "overpayment".
- Feanor

Whine regardless of Ghosts contract....I want him locked up!

What was his possession numbers in TB? Do you have a link?
- MJL

He was -2.0 rel corsi which was 3rd worst amongst forwards who played at least 30 games on the Lightning. The two guys below him, Brown and Paquette, rarely played with Filppula. Filppula's most common linemates were Boyle and Drouin, and both of them saw significant increases when not with Filppula.

I used a combination of Hockey Reference and hockeyanalysis.

Possession isn't everything. If you have guys who can generate better looks at the net, then you can take a slightly below average possession guy, but there isn't much evidence to suggest he will help do this. From just an eye test standpoint, he doesn't seem to fit the Flyers "get the puck to the net and drive the net" identity. He wants to skate around and be patient. Maybe they feel he can bring that element to the team, but I just don't see it. Losing Read or Raffl to Vegas and adding Filppula for next season is probably a net negative at even strength. I know that may be surprising to many people, but Read and Raffl have proven to be very good at even strength despite their lack of scoring.

you only get one chance to sign a guy to a team friendly deal through his entire prime

with the season ghost had (coming off of surgery) it could be even better

There is a chance Ghost wants the bridge deal. I am not comparing the two on the ice...just saying look at what can happen if the player exceeds expectations on a bridge deal: PK Subban
- YuenglingJagr

I do wonder what the comparables are for Ghost.

He's a little older than a player coming out of junior on an ELC. He had that killer year last year and this year, where he was down. But just because he was down, I'm not sure that means you go bridge deal. Last year was sort of unsustainable, from a shooting pct standpoint, coming into this year.

you only get one chance to sign a guy to a team friendly deal through his entire prime

with the season ghost had (coming off of surgery) it could be even better

There is a chance Ghost wants the bridge deal. I am not comparing the two on the ice...just saying look at what can happen if the player exceeds expectations on a bridge deal: PK Subban
- YuenglingJagr

I see what you're saying but with a player so young, especially a d-man, I'm still in favor of a bridge deal and worry about the next contract later. I'd think that more often than not you come out ahead doing it that way (but I have no fancies to back that up).

Regression happens when players turn 29, especially guys that are undersized. At 33, all the regression has already happened. Hell, he might even get better!
- YuenglingJagr

It has the makings of a GM falling in love with a player from years ago. It's almost like nostalgia. I feel like that happened with Umberger too.

It has the makings of a GM falling in love with a player from years ago. It's almost like nostalgia. I feel like that happened with Umberger too.
- PhillySportsGuy

What both trades had in common was that you had to take salary back and pray the guy you got had something left in the tank.

With Umberger, he had more years on his deal, so when he sucked, it was kind of disheartening to have to deal with him for multiple years (especially with Hartnell still scoring).

With Filppula, he may not even be on the team a year from now.

I see what you're saying but with a player so young, especially a d-man, I'm still in favor of a bridge deal and worry about the next contract later. I'd think that more often than not you come out ahead doing it that way (but I have no fancies to back that up).
- Scoob

Do you plan on doing that with all of the Flyers prospects coming up?

Right now, how do you view Schenn's deal vs Couturier's?

There is a time and a place for bridge deals. It is not when your team sucks and you have cap space

It has the makings of a GM falling in love with a player from years ago. It's almost like nostalgia. I feel like that happened with Umberger too.
- PhillySportsGuy

They're all fantastic moves until they aren't

I have already said how I feel about the trade. They did it for Mark Streit and got draft picks to boot. I have asked for skill since I got here and I do think he brings that. I am not going to act like he is the player I wanted (because he isnt) but it is at least some attempt of wanting to put skill in the top 9 (top 12 would just be ridiculously greedy apparently )

Do you plan on doing that with all of the Flyers prospects coming up?

Right now, how do you view Schenn's deal vs Couturier's?

There is a time and a place for bridge deals. It is not when your team sucks and you have cap space
- YuenglingJagr

Depends 100% on the player. Right now, today, I would be very reluctant to sign Ghost to a big dollar, long-term deal.

Provorov will be next, but right now, today, I'd be fine with locking him up long-term.

Depends 100% on the player. Right now, today, I would be very reluctant to sign Ghost to a big dollar, long-term deal.
- Scoob

Ghost has some leverage, but this was pretty much a down year for him by most measures. Maybe, from a negotiating standpoint, you can use that to buy out some of his prime at a more reasonable price than you probably could if he kills it on a bridge deal.

Coming off a bridge deal at age 25, if he does what we all think he can do...he's gonna want to get paid.

It's amazing to me that every single player Konecny plays with not named Couturier and Voracek are dragging him down. Does he not bare any responsibility for his play with any other combination? I haven't looked at your underlying stats and I don't plan to. Your interpretation of them or how you plan to build an argument around them means very little to me. I do see that Filppula's game has regressed since his first couple games as a Flyer. I also see a player with a ton of skill, mobility and strong hockey IQ. What has Raffl done this year to justify his place on the roster over Filppula? They still have a chance to protect him if he's that valuable. Protecting Bellemare instead of him is a whole other issue.

Everything you said about signing Ghost long term could back fire. It's risky and I don't think Hextall will do it. Even if he makes the cap space available.
- Baxter27

As long as Konecny plays with Giroux or Couturier as his center, I'll be satisfied. I'm also not saying Konecny isn't effective with other guys. He's scored multiple goals playing with Bellemare and Vandevelde, but you're not really maximizing him as a player by playing him with bad linemates. He's a better even strength player than guys like Schenn.

There is also risk in NOT signing Ghost long-term. More risk IMO

Depends 100% on the player. Right now, today, I would be very reluctant to sign Ghost to a big dollar, long-term deal.

Provorov will be next, but right now, today, I'd be fine with locking him up long-term.
- Scoob

I don't think there is a guarantee it is a big money deal. The numbers range quite a bit due to how many years get eaten up. I would bet they could keep it around 4 AAV if they do it this offseason. I think you'd be crazy to have an issue with paying Ghost 4 million through each year of his prime

Regression happens when players turn 29, especially guys that are undersized. At 33, all the regression has already happened. Hell, he might even get better!
- YuenglingJagr

I look forward to turning 33!

I look forward to turning 33!
- PhillySportsGuy

/looks at my birth certificate
//watches all of my advanced stats head downward

They're all fantastic moves until they aren't

I have already said how I feel about the trade. They did it for Mark Streit and got draft picks to boot. I have asked for skill since I got here and I do think he brings that. I am not going to act like he is the player I wanted (because he isnt) but it is at least some attempt of wanting to put skill in the top 9 (top 12 would just be ridiculously greedy apparently )
- YuenglingJagr

I guess the move irks me because it almost seems like the team is more concerned with fixing insignificant things when they have bigger problems ahead.

I guess the move irks me because it almost seems like the team is more concerned with fixing insignificant things when they have bigger problems ahead.
- PhillySportsGuy

There's a chance I would agree if they didn't give up Mark Streit for it. ED aside, there is minimal investment

What both trades had in common was that you had to take salary back and pray the guy you got had something left in the tank.

With Umberger, he had more years on his deal, so when he sucked, it was kind of disheartening to have to deal with him for multiple years (especially with Hartnell still scoring).

With Filppula, he may not even be on the team a year from now.
- johndewar

I just don't understand why they're trying so hard to be mediocre. Not saying they should tank, but why keep this charade going on for so long. Have these last 5 years been enjoyable? I haven't been genuinely excited for a Flyers game in a long time.

Flyers should do a midget line: Konecny - Giroux - Weal
A big boy line: Simmonds - Couturier - Voracek
3rd: Read - Filppula - Schenn
4th: Weise - Bellemare - VandeVelde

On days like these, you just have to

(frank) THE RANGERS!
- jmatchett383

If they lose a player like Raffl in order to keep Filppula, then it's a pretty bad move IMO. Raffl is the far superior even strength player. Everything Filppula gives you offensively is taken away by his sub par defensive play. I expect him to be better next season, but he's been awful thus far with the Flyers. He's gotten to play with the Flyers two best even strength wingers in Konecny and Voracek and has dragged them down significantly. There is pretty much no metric favoring Filppula's play with the Flyers thus far. If you want to use a subjective eye test, then go ahead. After that, there isn't nothing to back up you claims. Tbh, he looks like a guy who has the potential to really fall off. He just turned 33.

I would like to sign Ghost long-term. They could buyout some rfa years and lock him up through his prime. I actually think signing him long-term would increase his future trade value as well.
- PhillySportsGuy

Sample size. Offensive play is not just taken away with defensive play. Voracek has not been good lately. It's a team game, not an individual game.

It's amazing to me that every single player Konecny plays with not named Couturier and Voracek are dragging him down. Does he not bare any responsibility for his play with any other combination? I haven't looked at your underlying stats and I don't plan to. Your interpretation of them or how you plan to build an argument around them means very little to me. I do see that Filppula's game has regressed since his first couple games as a Flyer. I also see a player with a ton of skill, mobility and strong hockey IQ. What has Raffl done this year to justify his place on the roster over Filppula? They still have a chance to protect him if he's that valuable. Protecting Bellemare instead of him is a whole other issue.

Everything you said about signing Ghost long term could back fire. It's risky and I don't think Hextall will do it. Even if he makes the cap space available.
- Baxter27

It's selective to suit a narrative. A self anointed expert in analytics should understand the role of sample size.

He was -2.0 rel corsi which was 3rd worst amongst forwards who played at least 30 games on the Lightning. The two guys below him, Brown and Paquette, rarely played with Filppula. Filppula's most common linemates were Boyle and Drouin, and both of them saw significant increases when not with Filppula.


- PhillySportsGuy

Tell the complete story. Rel Corsi is really about the most overrated analytic there is. Pretty much useless. Regardless -2.0 might as well be even. What were the situations and what was the sample size when they weren't with Filppula?

Possession isn't everything. If you have guys who can generate better looks at the net, then you can take a slightly below average possession guy, but there isn't much evidence to suggest he will help do this. From just an eye test standpoint, he doesn't seem to fit the Flyers "get the puck to the net and drive the net" identity. He wants to skate around and be patient. Maybe they feel he can bring that element to the team, but I just don't see it. Losing Read or Raffl to Vegas and adding Filppula for next season is probably a net negative at even strength. I know that may be surprising to many people, but Read and Raffl have proven to be very good at even strength despite their lack of scoring.
- PhillySportsGuy

You're right possession isn't everything which is why I find it puzzling that you contradict that at the end, in saying that Read and Raffl have proven to be very good at even strength. Do you know what they haven't been good at even strength this that you might find surprising, or just conveniently are forgetting because it doesn't suit the narrative and that's scoring! Fillpula has more points at ES this year than Raffl had in his career year when he score 21 goals! Read and Raffl may be solid possession players but if the puck doesn't get in the net, it doesn't mean squat. The Flyers are a top 10 possession team in the league this season. They're not going to make the playoffs. Ability to score is a big reason why! If we shouldn't have players who don't fit the "get the puck to the net and drive the net", when are they moving Claude Giroux? I think there is one thing you're forgetting here in your analytic analysis, and that's a team takes players that are complimentary to each other to be a good team. While players are driving and going to the net, you need some skill players to carry and distribute the puck and help create offense. If the Flyers aren't scoring goals and score at the level they have this year, do you know what players like Read and Raffl are? 4th line players because they can't score! Now surround them with some skill and finesse, and that might help? Unfortunately this team is just in a hole this year, and other than adding a star player, pretty much any decent players will be sucked in that hole. It's just the way it is. Now with Filppula being 33, there is always the danger that his play could completely fall off a cliff. If it does, it's only one season. The trade completely fits Hextall's mantra of how he is going to proceed, and does not fit your narrative that they are striving to be mediocre. No part of the future was sacrificed to add Filppula. As far the expansion draft, I'll worry about that when it happens. I think Hextall has that planned out as much as possible.

I do wonder what the comparables are for Ghost.

He's a little older than a player coming out of junior on an ELC. He had that killer year last year and this year, where he was down. But just because he was down, I'm not sure that means you go bridge deal. Last year was sort of unsustainable, from a shooting pct standpoint, coming into this year.
- johndewar

The worries about Gostisbehere are a lot more than just a downturn in offensive production. His defensive game, including the fundamentals were completely in the crapper for most of the season. He was brutal against Winnipeg.