He provided the same level of play as Quick has the last 3 years. So in my eyes, you have the Kings who are a playoff team when given average goaltending (regardless of whether its Quick, Budaj, etc.). He didn't stand on his head, put up gaudy numbers, or anything. Whereas for example, the Oilers are not a playoff team if you take away their elite number 1 center.
- j.boyd919

I'll put it differently and using your logic.


Do you think it more likely Zatkoff be able to carry the King to where they are now or Ederle, Lucic, and/or Nugent-Hopkins carry the Oilers to where they are now?


Seems easy to me.

I'll put it differently and using your logic.


Do you think it more likely Zatkoff be able to carry the King to where they are now or Ederle, Lucic, and/or Nugent-Hopkins carry the Oilers to where they are now?


Seem easy to me.
- Zac_O

Zatkoff, because he wouldn't be carrying them (just like Budaj didn't carry the Kings) all he has to do is provide average goaltending. Eberle, Lucic, and Nuge need to make up for 82 points with the loss of McDavid. If you think a goaltender playing average hockey is more important to a team than an elite league leading scoring center (no offense to Drais, but he's no Malkin), that is foolish.

Zatkoff, because he wouldn't be carrying them (just like Budaj didn't carry the Kings) all he has to do is provide average goaltending. Eberle, Lucic, and Nuge need to make up for 82 points with the loss of McDavid. If you think a goaltender playing average hockey is more important to a team than an elite league leading scoring center (no offense to Drais, but he's no Malkin), that is foolish.
- j.boyd919

drais is playing on the same line as mcdavid though

Zatkoff, because he wouldn't be carrying them (just like Budaj didn't carry the Kings) all he has to do is provide average goaltending. Eberle, Lucic, and Nuge need to make up for 82 points with the loss of McDavid. If you think a goaltender playing average hockey is more important to a team than an elite league leading scoring center (no offense to Drais, but he's no Malkin), that is foolish.
- j.boyd919

But it's based on by the team. The team needed an average goalie so bad that he was the most valuable to his team. Am I not making this clear?

It goes back to the bad definition of what makes the person mvp.



Edit: It's way more likely 3 players considered above average make up for lost points than Zatkoff play "average" for an extended period of time. I personally think McDavid is more MVP than Budaj but if I go off the wording of the award Dubaj did more for him team. The issue is the bad wording making it easier for people on bad teams to win.

But it's based on by the team. The team needed an average goalie so bad that he was the most valuable to his team. Am I not making this clear?

It goes back to the bad definition of what makes the person mvp.
- Zac_O

I wouldn't be surprised if Budaj gets SOME MVP votes. While you are not wrong when you say Budaj was the MVP of the Kings, McDavid is the MVP to the Oilers, and McDavid is playing at a higher level compared to Budaj giving McD the nod over Budaj. Now with Sid, you have Sid, Geno, and Kessell all having great seasons. But lose one of those 3 and the Pens could still make noise in the playoffs.

what show is that from? lol
- j.boyd919

A British show called the IT Crowd. Probably on Netflix but on Hulu for sure. Check it out.

But it's based on by the team. The team needed an average goalie so bad that he was the most valuable to his team. Am I not making this clear?

It goes back to the bad definition of what makes the person mvp.



Edit: It's way more likely 3 players considered above average make up for lost points than Zatkoff play "average" for an extended period of time. I personally think McDavid is more MVP than Budaj but if I go off the wording of the award Dubaj did more for him team. The issue is the bad wording making it easier for people on bad teams to win.
- Zac_O

Yeah I completely disagree. Even going off the wording, McDavid has done more for his team than Budaj did. Playing at an elite level for 72 games vs. playing average for 53 games, while both essentially putting on the same feat (keeping their teams in playoff position)

Yeah I completely disagree. Even going off the wording, McDavid has done more for his team than Budaj did. Playing at an elite level for 72 games vs. playing average for 53 games, while both essentially putting on the same feat (keeping their teams in playoff position)
- j.boyd919

honestly I have no idea why they have the hart as a league trophy. it should be for the best player in the league or every team can just give out a trophy as mvp to a player in their team. there should not be a league mvp trophy for the mvp of their TEAM. it should be mvp of the league...

honestly I have no idea why they have the hart as a league trophy. it should be for the best player in the league or every team can just give out a trophy as mvp to a player in their team. there should not be a league mvp trophy for the mvp of their TEAM. it should be mvp of the league...
- martox

I believe most teams choose their MVP too

honestly I have no idea why they have the hart as a league trophy. it should be for the best player in the league or every team can just give out a trophy as mvp to a player in their team. there should not be a league mvp trophy for the mvp of their TEAM. it should be mvp of the league...
- martox

I feel like it usually comes down to who they thought was the best player that year. The bigger problem to me is who votes for it. I don't think the writers should. I think it should be coaches/GMs/assistant GMs (under the assumption that they see more games via video than the writers, when prepping for games).

I feel like it usually comes down to who they thought was the best player that year. The bigger problem to me is who votes for it. I don't think the writers should. I think it should be coaches/GMs/assistant GMs (under the assumption that they see more games via video than the writers, when prepping for games).
- j.boyd919

They would absolutely know who was the most difficult to defend etc

They would absolutely know who was the most difficult to defend etc
- Thorny87

Yeah I don't really like the fact that the writers vote. That's why I like the Ted Lindsay better. It's voted by their peers.

I believe most teams choose their MVP too
- Thorny87

oh I know they do. maf got mvp last year I believe

Yeah I completely disagree. Even going off the wording, McDavid has done more for his team than Budaj did. Playing at an elite level for 72 games vs. playing average for 53 games, while both essentially putting on the same feat (keeping their teams in playoff position)
- j.boyd919

I definitely see what you're saying. There is also a chance I over value goalies because the idea of even trying to be one scares me.

I kinda hope McDavid wins it since Sid seems motivated by McDavid coming to take his place as top player it could make him work harder and produce even more.

Yeah I don't really like the fact that the writers vote. That's why I like the Ted Lindsay better. It's voted by their peers.
- j.boyd919

Writers in hockey are incredibly biased IMO. It'll be interesting to see how the Calder shakes out.

I definitely see what you're saying. There is also a chance I over value goalies because the idea of even trying to be one scares me.

I kinda hope McDavid wins it since Sid seems motivated by McDavid coming to take his place as top player it could make him work harder and produce even more.
- Zac_O

I kind a hope he doesn't... can you imagine the amount of trolls that will come in here if he wins the point race and hart right before sid's nose?

I kind a hope he doesn't... can you imagine the amount of trolls that will come in here if he wins the point race and hart right before sid's nose?
- martox

McDavid is a beast, I'd be okay with him winning.

I kind a hope he doesn't... can you imagine the amount of trolls that will come in here if he wins the point race and hart right before sid's nose?
- martox

Well if you don't want idiot trolls, Hockeybuzz is a terrible site for you.

Well if you don't want idiot trolls, Hockeybuzz is a terrible site for you.
- Zac_O

YEAH, IDIOT.

McDavid is a beast, I'd be okay with him winning.
- j.boyd919

oh no doubt he is.

Well if you don't want idiot trolls, Hockeybuzz is a terrible site for you.
- Zac_O

they are already bad enough. don't want to add more fuel to the fire

McDavid is a beast, I'd be okay with him winning.
- j.boyd919

What about a non-beast (but extremely feral creature) such as Marchand. Would we be okay with him winning?

What about a non-beast (but extremely feral creature) such as Marchand. Would we be okay with him winning?
- DeflatedPucks

I like Marchand too (when he's not being an idiot). Dude is a stud, I wish the Pens had swung a trade for him.

What about a non-beast (but extremely feral creature) such as Marchand. Would we be okay with him winning?
- DeflatedPucks

well I wanted us to get him in the offseason between the world cup and the nhl season but we didn't

I might agree with you if it were not for the fact that Poulliot and Despres regressed when placed in the capable hands of the Pens development staff and its NHL coaches.

Moreover, the organization's coaches have player development as part of their job descriptions. They have wasted assets, and need to account for that fact. Of course, the scouts and GM must account for drafting players the development staff then destroys. But it is too convenient to blame the players, especially when the Pens recently drafted many defensemen and have only one successful draft and development case, Matta.
- szielinski

Maybe Pouliot regressed because he kept showing up to camp out of shape. The local beat writers were all remarking how different DP looked in this years camp. Looked like he finally took his conditioning seriously over the summer. Whose fault is that? Could that have played a role in his "regression"?

Look, I believe teams/coaches can have a negative impact on players, but I don't believe that they ruin them permanently. There are plenty of rumors that DP never really took his career too seriously. Never did additional work and never had the obsessive attitude that's required to stay in the NHL. I remember somebody (sports analyst) was talking about him..... Basically said that DP always did the bare minimum. Would show up at practice like everybody else, but after the required activities, he was a ghost. Compare that to the way Letang does his business.

I think DP is going to be a reclamation product. Maybe Vegas takes him.