Man 'o man...are the Kings dead or what?

That club needs dismantling.
- ArlingtonRob

Out(frank)ingstanding...

"Farewell and adieu, to your fair Spanish ladies..."

Saying Jarvis is a Mario Lemieux compared to Kruger is about the same as me grouping Kruger or Jarvis with Ovechkin. Neither one of them were/are out there to score, they're there to defend, kill penalties and take faceoffs in important situations.

That was also an era when the Habs were scoring 350+ goals a year as a team and guys like Shutt and Lemieux were potting 50-60 goals each. What do the Hawks have so far - 220?
- RickJ

Somewhat true, but last THREE seasons Marcus has averaged (as of today):
60 gp - 3 goals- 9 assists - 12 points.

Now you may debate eras, but Jarvis averaged 3x to 4x that amount.

Look, Kruger is good at what he does. But scoring isn't one of those skills. At his salary.....and with this EXTREMELY low offensive output, I doubt there are more than 2-3 teams who would even entertain taking him on their roster. People get personal here, like we are saying Kruger is rubbish and we are cruel to say it. It is simply that we are in a CAP world. Money has to be accounted for. And a strictly defensive guy who averages the above 3 goals and 12 points per 60 games cannot be paid what he does. Simple. And the proof will be when Hawks try to move him. I guarantee they will have to add a sweetener to move him. If they could trade him in a purely hockey trade, I will be utterly shocked. At 1.5 million a year, keep him...he has value. At his current salary...not even close.

Somewhat true, but last THREE seasons Marcus has averaged (as of today):
60 gp - 3 goals- 9 assists - 12 points.

Now you may debate eras, but Jarvis averaged 3x to 4x that amount.

Look, Kruger is good at what he does. But scoring isn't one of those skills. At his salary.....and with this EXTREMELY low offensive output, I doubt there are more than 2-3 teams who would even entertain taking him on their roster. People get personal here, like we are saying Kruger is rubbish and we are cruel to say it. It is simply that we are in a CAP world. Money has to be accounted for. And a strictly defensive guy who averages the above 3 goals and 12 points per 60 games cannot be paid what he does. Simple. And the proof will be when Hawks try to move him. I guarantee they will have to add a sweetener to move him. If they could trade him in a purely hockey trade, I will be utterly shocked. At 1.5 million a year, keep him...he has value. At his current salary...not even close.
- hawk35

I think the story of Kruger and his salary per points scored has exhausted itself. I get it, everybody thinks he should be earning about the same as guys like Dominic Moore, Jay McClement, Eric Haula, Matt Cullen and Danault make.

Except none of those guys have ever been even close to being a significant contributor on a Stanley Cup winner(s). Right or wrong, #16 got some of his current salary for that and he is still with the team and pencilled in for an important (non scoring) role down the middle of the ice in this year's playoffs. They will need him.

In the offseason he may find himself elsewhere playing for a team like Arizona who needs to get to the cap floor. If it takes something extra to move him, so be it.

For me, the ideal scenario for the Hawks is if Kruger gets selected in the expansion draft, they trade Crawford for a draft pick, and extend Darling at 3 to 3.5 million.

They'd have to trade Crow and extend Darling before the expansion draft obviously, but if they can pull this off and the cap rises to around $76 million, they should be able to afford re-signing Panik, Kempny, Kero and Jurco (if they see enough in him worth keeping).

This would allow them to go into next season with lines of:

Schmaltz - Toews - Panik
Panarin - Anisimov - Kane
Hartman - Hayden - Hossa
Motte - Kero - Tootoo/Jurco

Keith - Seabrook
Hjalmarsson - Kempny
TVR - Forsling

...and still have some money left over. I'm not saying this is the ideal line-up or the one I'd like to see them start the season with, but it's a solid, baseline from which to build.

Campbell could be brought back on the cheap, there'd likely be some money available for a mid-level veteran free agent signing if the right fit comes along, and trades could be made to further improve this roster.

The point is they'd have options/flexibility and a decent team already, freeing them from the lack of leverage in both trades and FA signings they've been saddled with in the recent past.

For me, the ideal scenario for the Hawks is if Kruger gets selected in the expansion draft, they trade Crawford for a draft pick, and extend Darling at 3 to 3.5 million.

They'd have to trade Crow and extend Darling before the expansion draft obviously, but if they can pull this off and the cap rises to around $76 million, they should be able to afford re-signing Panik, Kempny, Kero and Jurco (if they see enough in him worth keeping).

This would allow them to go into next season with lines of:

Schmaltz - Toews - Panik
Panarin - Anisimov - Kane
Hartman - Hayden - Hossa
Motte - Kero - Tootoo/Jurco

Keith - Seabrook
Hjalmarsson - Kempny
TVR - Forsling

...and still have some money left over. I'm not saying this is the ideal line-up or the one I'd like to see them start the season with, but it's a solid, baseline from which to build.

Campbell could be brought back on the cheap, there'd likely be some money available for a mid-level veteran free agent signing if the right fit comes along, and trades could be made to further improve this roster.

The point is they'd have options/flexibility and a decent team already, freeing them from the lack of leverage in both trades and FA signings they've been saddled with in the recent past.
- 4_in_7

I like your thinking. But I believe TVR will be selected by Vegas over Kruger.

Personally I'd rather see Kruger go. TVR is harder to replace than Kruger. Not that what Kruger brings to the team isn't important--it is. But as his salary he's too expensive to keep over a Dman.

I like your thinking. But I believe TVR will be selected by Vegas over Kruger.

Personally I'd rather see Kruger go. TVR is harder to replace than Kruger. Not that what Kruger brings to the team isn't important--it is. But as his salary he's too expensive to keep over a Dman.
- tompo1015

It will come down to what the other teams expose. I doubt money/player's salaries will be much of an issue for Las Vegas. Not that they'll be rolling in dough, just that the players they'll be getting might barely get them to the required salary floor.

If the D-men made available by other teams are better than TVR, Kruger could go. In a vacuum, you're right though. I'd take TVR at his current salary over Kruger.

For me, the ideal scenario for the Hawks is if Kruger gets selected in the expansion draft, they trade Crawford for a draft pick, and extend Darling at 3 to 3.5 million.

They'd have to trade Crow and extend Darling before the expansion draft obviously, but if they can pull this off and the cap rises to around $76 million, they should be able to afford re-signing Panik, Kempny, Kero and Jurco (if they see enough in him worth keeping).

This would allow them to go into next season with lines of:

Schmaltz - Toews - Panik
Panarin - Anisimov - Kane
Hartman - Hayden - Hossa
Motte - Kero - Tootoo/Jurco

Keith - Seabrook
Hjalmarsson - Kempny
TVR - Forsling

...and still have some money left over. I'm not saying this is the ideal line-up or the one I'd like to see them start the season with, but it's a solid, baseline from which to build.

Campbell could be brought back on the cheap, there'd likely be some money available for a mid-level veteran free agent signing if the right fit comes along, and trades could be made to further improve this roster.

The point is they'd have options/flexibility and a decent team already, freeing them from the lack of leverage in both trades and FA signings they've been saddled with in the recent past.
- 4_in_7

So you would move out a Top 5 in the NHL goaltender in order to make room for signatures on new contacts from Jurco, Kero and Kempny?

Do you have a well functioning Lexus in your driveway? I would like to trade 3 of my used PT Cruisers for your Lexus, no cash exchanged.

I really like watching Ryan Hartman play. Kind of reminds me of not only Andrew Shaw but a little Patrick Sharp as well. Maybe the Sharp comparison is a little too early but some nights that's who he reminds me of.

Players signed by Stan Bowman that I believe should be paid about $1m less than their current salary:
Toews
Kane
Seabrook
Crawford
Kruger
Runblad
- Cmonalready

Of those players, how many of them would have resigned for $1M less? What if all said that was their number and were going to get it somewhere else, there's only 1 person on that list I let go.

So you would move out a Top 5 in the NHL goaltender in order to make room for signatures on new contacts from Jurco, Kero and Kempny?

Do you have a well functioning Lexus in your driveway? I would like to trade 3 of my used PT Cruisers for your Lexus, no cash exchanged.
- RickJ

What you are missing is you need 13 Forwards, 2 goalies and 7 D on a roster. Right now the 3 of them make about 2.3 and as a guess they could be resigned as RFA's for lets call it 2.5-3. so lets call it $900K per player. you are not applying the money you are saving from Craw to Darling (2.5) to them you are applying to rosters spots you need to fill. so if you don't sign those guys for $900K who do you put in those roster spots and how much do they make and how good are they? The guys that will accept League Min are generally have one foot out of the league. the League Min is $650 next year. The 3 of them are only going to make $750K over the league min so you would prefer to get rid of those guys and sign SVED, MASH, ROZ, TOOTOO on the roster and save $750K.

So you would move out a Top 5 in the NHL goaltender in order to make room for signatures on new contacts from Jurco, Kero and Kempny?
- RickJ

Your BS straw man argument notwithstanding, yes. Yes I would. Oh, and you forgot to mention re-signing the 20-goal scoring Panik. How convenient for you.

Reasonable people can disagree on this, but I believe Darling is on par with Crow enough so that any difference between the two won't be greatly felt. And when you look at the future make up of this team with Panarin's $6 million, the money will have to come from somewhere.

Only Hjalmarsson and Crawford have limited no movement clauses next year, and I sure as hell ain't dealing Hammer. All of the other expensive players have full NMCs (Anisimov's changes to a modified NMC in 2018-19 when he'll have to list 10 teams he can be traded to without his permission).

Care to come up with a plan of your own? How do you keep this team together moving forward?

And why the hell would you buy 3 PT Cruisers? Didn't you know they sucked after the 1st one?

Of those players, how many of them would have resigned for $1M less? What if all said that was their number and were going to get it somewhere else, there's only 1 person on that list I let go.
- HawksHype

the mistake with Runblad is you should not have given him over what you could bury in the AHL, they game him $1050 and should have given him $950K so he was overpaid by $100K not a Mil.

And why the hell would you buy 3 PT Cruisers? Didn't you know they sucked after the 1st one?
- 4_in_7

Your BS straw man argument notwithstanding, yes. Yes I would. Oh, and you forgot to mention re-signing the 20-goal scoring Panik. How convenient for you.

Reasonable people can disagree on this, but I believe Darling is on par with Crow enough so that any difference between the two won't be greatly felt. And when you look at the future make up of this team with Panarin's $6 million, the money will have to come from somewhere.

Only Hjalmarsson and Crawford have limited no movement clauses next year, and I sure as hell ain't dealing Hammer. All of the other expensive players have full NMCs (Anisimov's changes to a modified NMC in 2018-19 when he'll have to list 10 teams he can be traded to without his permission).

Care to come up with a plan of your own? How do you keep this team together moving forward?

And why the hell would you buy 3 PT Cruisers? Didn't you know they sucked after the 1st one?
- 4_in_7

Panik wasn't forgotten, he will be resigned at around $2.0M or slightly less. He's an RFA without many other options but he's earned a reasonable salary increase.

No G.M. other than guys like Mike Milbury moves a core player like Crawford to retain 3 absolute bottom of the roster guys with limited options as RFA's. It won't happen and I strongly suspect Darling will get himself a nice contract elsewhere and best wishes from the club.

And do you really think Rozsival, Campbell, Tootoo, Jurco, Kruger, Oduya, Desjardins, Hinostroza, and TVR will all be with the club next season? 3 of them maybe, all of the rest will be gone or playing in Rockford. And the cycle of surrounding the core with cheap young players will repeat itself.

Your BS straw man argument notwithstanding, yes. Yes I would. Oh, and you forgot to mention re-signing the 20-goal scoring Panik. How convenient for you.

Reasonable people can disagree on this, but I believe Darling is on par with Crow enough so that any difference between the two won't be greatly felt. And when you look at the future make up of this team with Panarin's $6 million, the money will have to come from somewhere.

Only Hjalmarsson and Crawford have limited no movement clauses next year, and I sure as hell ain't dealing Hammer. All of the other expensive players have full NMCs (Anisimov's changes to a modified NMC in 2018-19 when he'll have to list 10 teams he can be traded to without his permission).

Care to come up with a plan of your own? How do you keep this team together moving forward?

And why the hell would you buy 3 PT Cruisers? Didn't you know they sucked after the 1st one?
- 4_in_7

First, let me say im not opposed to moving Crawford. I do think Darling could be fine as the #1. However, IF (big IF) the cap does go to 76M as rumored, i think the hawks could retain both Crow and Darling.

Kruger would have to go to Vegas to make it work, but...

Resign: Darling 3.7M, Panik 2.75M, Kero 1.25M, Moose 900k, Kempny 1.25M
Call up: Hino 717.5k, Forsling 872.5k (and if any are signed for less then its extra cap space later)

No Jurco in there, and it leaves 333k in space (no much but it does work).

Lineup could be:

Schmaltz/Toews/Hayden
PAK
Panik/Kero/Hossa
Hartman/Moose/Hino
Keith/Hammer
Forsling/Seabs
Kempny/TVR

Rosy/Tootoo as reserve. Its thin, but it works (technically).


That said, moving Crow means you get that 6M. But you need to sign a replacement (2-2.5M) and then ~4.5M to 5M to add better depth than Rosy/Tootoo (Leftover from crow and the 1M+ from Rosy and Tootoos hits).

Thats where stan needs to weigh the market and see what nets the most return. Whos to say the replacements for Crow/Rosy/Tootoo end up being better. We can always sit here and say a move will help the team, but some fail, so maybe a move doesnt solve all.

Panik wasn't forgotten, he will be resigned at around $2.0M or slightly less. He's an RFA without many other options but he's earned a reasonable salary increase.

No G.M. other than guys like Mike Milbury moves a core player like Crawford to retain 3 absolute bottom of the roster guys with limited options as RFA's. It won't happen and I strongly suspect Darling will get himself a nice contract elsewhere and best wishes from the club.

And do you really think Rozsival, Campbell, Tootoo, Jurco, Kruger, Oduya, Desjardins, Hinostroza, and TVR will all be with the club next season? 3 of them maybe, all of the rest will be gone or playing in Rockford. And the cycle of surrounding the core with cheap young players will repeat itself.
- RickJ

so what you are saying is we keep Crawford and Then goto a 12 FR 6 D roster. and then if someone gets sick we just play 17 vs 18. If you remove 2 roster spots you do save Money. removing Kempny, Jurco and Kero and replacing them with League Min players saves apprx $250 K per player or Roster spot. And those guys are better then the guys that sign for League min. We are going to have about 72-Mil to spend on 13 FR 7 D and 2 goalies after bonus money, so just do the math. $21 (K and T) +$6 pan, $7 Seabs. AA, ham, hos, keith $20K. $6 for Craw. that is $60mil for 9 players and then you have 12 mil to spend on the other 13 guys. It just does not work. Panik is going to be over a mil probably closer to 2. so now that 10 mil left for 12 guys that is $833. on AVG.

Panik wasn't forgotten, he will be resigned at around $2.0M or slightly less. He's an RFA without many other options but he's earned a reasonable salary increase.

No G.M. other than guys like Mike Milbury moves a core player like Crawford to retain 3 absolute bottom of the roster guys with limited options as RFA's. It won't happen and I strongly suspect Darling will get himself a nice contract elsewhere and best wishes from the club.

And do you really think Rozsival, Campbell, Tootoo, Jurco, Kruger, Oduya, Desjardins, Hinostroza, and TVR will all be with the club next season? 3 of them maybe, all of the rest will be gone or playing in Rockford. And the cycle of surrounding the core with cheap young players will repeat itself.
- RickJ

Does Crawford track pucks better than others?

Would Winnipeg take him just so Chicago would exchange #1 -round selections. This was my hope. This way Chicsgo would draft a player who might become a core player one day

Alas Wiz I believe feels the Jets choice is too late to supply such a player. Darn, could have gambled with Darling and saved $$$. I go out on a limb and predict we will like some moves Bowman comes up with but none too pleased with other transactions. Each team is going to be looking to make those don't draft so and so, and we will give you
Two or three players in return.

Any GM comes out smelling like a rose, and out - manuevers the other GM'S IS going to be villified

so what you are saying is we keep Crawford and Then goto a 12 FR 6 D roster. and then if someone gets sick we just play 17 vs 18. If you remove 2 roster spots you do save Money. removing Kempny, Jurco and Kero and replacing them with League Min players saves apprx $250 K per player or Roster spot. And those guys are better then the guys that sign for League min. We are going to have about 72-Mil to spend on 13 FR 7 D and 2 goalies after bonus money, so just do the math. $21 (K and T) +$6 pan, $7 Seabs. AA, ham, hos, keith $20K. $6 for Craw. that is $60mil for 9 players and then you have 12 mil to spend on the other 13 guys. It just does not work. Panik is going to be over a mil probably closer to 2. so now that 10 mil left for 12 guys that is $833. on AVG.
- kmw4631

Neither of us know the final cap figure for next year but you can be sure Bowman has a plan and some inside information, especially about his own team. Bottom of the roster players with contract renewals upcoming are all dispensible, they can all be replaced if their requested salary number doesn't fit.

I don't know if the re-capture rules prevent the team from buying Marian Hossa out at the end of this year, but I sure have a hard time believing #81 is going to want to play for $1M per for the next 4 seasons. He may be a surprise name who won't be with the team next year, who knows. But if he isn't, that changes a lot of things. And if he still needs to make more money, buying him out is goodwill and gives him the freedom to sign with Florida or somebody like that and make $4 or $5M for a year or 2.

Lots of crazy player movement gonna happen by June 30.

First, let me say im not opposed to moving Crawford. I do think Darling could be fine as the #1. However, IF (big IF) the cap does go to 76M as rumored, i think the hawks could retain both Crow and Darling.

Kruger would have to go to Vegas to make it work, but...

Resign: Darling 3.7M, Panik 2.75M, Kero 1.25M, Moose 900k, Kempny 1.25M
Call up: Hino 717.5k, Forsling 872.5k (and if any are signed for less then its extra cap space later)

No Jurco in there, and it leaves 333k in space (no much but it does work).

Lineup could be:

Schmaltz/Toews/Hayden
PAK
Panik/Kero/Hossa
Hartman/Moose/Hino
Keith/Hammer
Forsling/Seabs
Kempny/TVR

Rosy/Tootoo as reserve. Its thin, but it works (technically).


That said, moving Crow means you get that 6M. But you need to sign a replacement (2-2.5M) and then ~4.5M to 5M to add better depth than Rosy/Tootoo (Leftover from crow and the 1M+ from Rosy and Tootoos hits).

Thats where stan needs to weigh the market and see what nets the most return. Whos to say the replacements for Crow/Rosy/Tootoo end up being better. We can always sit here and say a move will help the team, but some fail, so maybe a move doesnt solve all.
- gnosox1986

Big overpay for Panik. I can see him getting 2 years @ 1.75-2.0 max. I think Darling ends up at 3-3.5 as well. Every penny counts!!

Big overpay for Panik. I can see him getting 2 years @ 1.75-2.0 max. I think Darling ends up at 3-3.5 as well. Every penny counts!!
- tyweb69

Agreed that Darling and Paink should come in lower. But my point was that even WITH those higher numbers, the hawks dont have to move Crow 100%.

They can retain some of the RFA/UFA players AND keep Crow AND keep Darling.

The IFs are "Kruger to Vegas?" and "what will the cap really be?"...

say Panik gets 2M and Darling 3.5. Thats only about 1M more than what i projected. So our Cap Space would be 1.33M (probably used to resign Soupy over Rosy, and then we are back to 0 Space anyway).

Either way... the point was as long as the cap goes up Stan has options...

While we may need to trade Crow if "the cap doesnt go up as much as we hope" or if "vegas takes TvR"... Nothing is in stone right now.

Agreed that Darling and Paink should come in lower. But my point was that even WITH those higher numbers, the hawks dont have to move Crow 100%.

They can retain some of the RFA/UFA players AND keep Crow AND keep Darling.

The IFs are "Kruger to Vegas?" and "what will the cap really be?"...

say Panik gets 2M and Darling 3.5. Thats only about 1M more than what i projected. So our Cap Space would be 1.33M (probably used to resign Soupy over Rosy, and then we are back to 0 Space anyway).

Either way... the point was as long as the cap goes up Stan has options...

While we may need to trade Crow if "the cap doesnt go up as much as we hope" or if "vegas takes TvR"... Nothing is in stone right now.
- gnosox1986

I do hope the cap climbs to 76m. That will solve some problems for sure.

Cherry picking stats can be a dangerous thing but that said, the Hawks have gone 17-3 in the last 20 games. They have been the highest scoring team and given up the second fewest goals over that stretch. That's a 0.85 winning percentage and it's unrealistic to think that it will continue at that pace, even though there are only 10 games left ... so who knows. The point is there is probably a statistical correction coming and we Hawks fans shouldn't get too freaked out about if it should happen.

I'm sorry. Can we focus on winning the Cup this year before we deal with the offseason purge? I'm enjoying this team and am hoping their play translates well to the playoffs. They need to flip the switch at the start of the game if they want to win. Especially against playoff teams.

How many players can they choose from for each game? Including black aces?

GO HOCKS

Big overpay for Panik. I can see him getting 2 years @ 1.75-2.0 max. I think Darling ends up at 3-3.5 as well. Every penny counts!!
- tyweb69

Also worth noting: Weise got 2.35M from Philly and Matt Martin got 2.5 from TOR. Kevin Hayes got 2.6 from NYR. Panik could get 2.5 on the open market. I'd be shocked if he came in under 2. 2-2.3 would be savvy from Stan, but i think Panik comes in over 2.3M per. probably something like 7.5/3 years.

I keep seeing people repeat this "6 weeks" nonsense.

The timetable given was THREE TO FOUR WEEKS

Why would they say that if it was actually going to be 6 weeks?

I'd expect him back in time for game 1.

Sorry to pick on you, its not just you I've read multiple people saying 6 weeks. I don't get where that's coming from. Chances are its not that bad of a sprain if they projected 3-4 weeks.
- SimpleJack

Hey I'm hoping he's back ASAP. I'm just spitballing here based on a Grade 1 "lower-body" injury I suffered and the amount of pain I was in. Yes, it was my Knee and not my ankle, but you and I both thought he was done for the year with how he reacted. And considering Q said "Day-to-Day" after the game, you don't think their credibility on the timetable for his return took a bit of a hit? I admitted that it was speculation, just trying to steer the conversation away from the dead horses we keep beating....Kruger and Toews.